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Frasse 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2004
Location: Sweden
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Points: 758
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 Posted: October 19 2006 at 13:46 |
It was probably half a year ago when Sweden's biggest newspaper announced something similar, only with the 71-75 lineup, the one we all love so much.
It turned out to be false rumours though, and I won't believe this either if it's not on their official site, which it isn't yet.
But then, I don't want to belive it.
In fact, I don't want Geneis to reunion at all. Of course I would see their shows but I rather keep the myth alive.
A trio reunion is quite a dissapointment too. What are they even thinking, they must know that the 70s stuff are what people want to hear today, or?
I'll maybe go and see them if they comes too Sweden and their show get good reviews.
Edited by Frasse - October 19 2006 at 13:48
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Heptade
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 19 2005
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 427
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Posted: October 19 2006 at 13:53 |
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Hey Genesis fans, you don't own them, you know- they're people...they owe you nothing. You chose to buy their albums and obsess over their genius. If they want to tour and you don't want to go, so be it.
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The world keeps spinning, people keep sinning
And all the rest is just bullsh*t
-Steve Kilbey
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fairyliar
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 21 2005
Location: France
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Points: 107
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Posted: October 19 2006 at 14:03 |
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I'm no real big fan of the 80s Genesis but if I have the opportunity to see them (and if the ticket price does'nt exceed 150€...) I will go just for the atmosphere and to sing Land Of Confusion :)
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Chris S
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Posted: October 19 2006 at 17:01 |
 Heavyfreight wrote:
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Heavyfreight wrote:
Well said. It's very easy to get on the "Genesis are crap without Hackett & Gabriel" bandwagon.
No Heavyfreight, it's hard, there's nothing worst for a Genesis fan that their favorite band jopins without the two members that kept it as the best ever.
I rather they never rejoin than if they start again with the boring third class musi of the trio, If I don't listen the howloings and hyena laughs in MAMA, that aberration to natuire called Who Dunnitt? or that mediocre and offensice crap called Illegal Alien in 40 years more is too soon.
I agree entirely that their pre Then There Were Three stuff was more progressive and can see why some people stop listening there but there is no getting away from the fact that they are still three fine musicians and with a good session lead guitarist and drummer can really kick ass.
No Heavyfreight, pre ATTW3 WAS PROGRESSIVE. post Duke HAS ABSOLUTELY NO RELATION WITH PROG it's just plain and boring adult contemporary oriented POP, despite the fact ATTW3 and Duke don't cause me jnausea, wouldn't pay adime to see them.
Sadly when you go to see Genesis, two good musicians (Rutherford was never spectacular IMO) is not enough, if I go to see Genesis I want to se the real deal, not a band that made me hate everuyything they released.
If I want to see POP, good POP, I would go to see Fleetwood Mac but not Genes9is.
Whilst I wouldn't travel miles or pay a fortune to see them I still remember the Mama and We Can't Dance tours and whilst they weren't the same as Seconds Out they were still damn good shows.
The only Genesis show I went was for the IT Tour, I spent all the concert in the bar and only entered to the hall during the medley and left after it because it was so depressive.
If they rehearse well and play some of the earlier stuff it should be well worth seeing.
No Gabriel and no Hackett, no Genesis IMO.
Iván |
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So am I not entitled to my opinion? |
Well said Heavyfreight....sadly some opinions ( respected or not) have such vitriolic hatred for the 3 man era and their material they put out, you wonder how such expert opinions did not yield musical superiority from the posters themselves. Genesis made some excellent material from ATTWT with the exception of IT. Fellow posters as much as it makes some of you feel awful that a vast majority of Genesis fans liked the 3 man era ( or parts of it), these fans also know their music too. ( not quoted from Ripley's Believe it or Not)
Edited by Chris Stacey - October 19 2006 at 17:02
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<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]
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el böthy
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 27 2005
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 6336
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Posted: October 19 2006 at 17:22 |
Ricochet wrote:
Tony R wrote:
Genesis sold over 130 million albums during the '70s and '80s, despite losing singer Peter Gabriel in 1975.
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now com'on Tony, you know that we shouldn't focus on that... 
well good for them. no chance I'm gonna get anything but news on how it was.
let's just see where this is going.
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What??? 130 million jejeje, isnt that too much? I mean, yes they really SOLD!!! But 130 million albums??? Hard to belive
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"You want me to play what, Robert?"
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johnobvious
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 11 2006
Location: Nebraska
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Points: 1367
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Posted: October 19 2006 at 19:21 |
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While all of your opinions are certainly valid in our little world here, I am 1000% sure that the three of them could care less. If you were in their shoes, you would probably be the same way. They have had a nice rest and now they can go back to the business of making bushels of money while their bodies are still up for touring. And while the whole idea of all 5 of them going in would be nice, I am sure that the potential conflicts are just not worth it in their eyes. Besides, the biggest portion of the fan base could care less about Peter Gabriel and few of them have even heard of Steve Hackett. In the old pocketbook, the number 3 adds up a whole lot better than 5 in this scenario. Sorry to say.
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Biggles was in rehab last Saturday
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Cheesecakemouse
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Joined: April 05 2006
Location: New Zealand
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Points: 1751
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Posted: October 19 2006 at 19:27 |
I checked the official website, and a forum thread is there which is is titled Please Read this Tony, Mike and Phil; about 80% of them are begging them for Steve Hackett to return. But maybe it was Steve's choice right?
BBC news website had an article posted a few hours ago with Peter Gabrial saying he is too busy with another idea for an album but might join in 2008. So I guess not all hope is lost.
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cuncuna
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 29 2005
Location: Chile
Status: Offline
Points: 4318
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Posted: October 19 2006 at 19:30 |
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Genesis tour... a nose hair is more interesting and appealing than that. The real talented ones are... well, we all know. By the way; Tony Banks solo efforts are disgusting.
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¡Beware of the Bee!
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
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Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
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Points: 19557
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Posted: October 19 2006 at 20:42 |
johnobvious wrote:
While all of your opinions are certainly valid in our little world here, I am 1000% sure that the three of them could care less.
That's why I can't care less about themm and believe me Collins is desperate.
He's been beging Peter Gabriel and Steve Hackett for two years to reunite, he even offered not to sing and stay behind the drums all night and Gabriel has said ten times that he has other plans and maybe one night would be all.
Steve Hackett was disrespected in Milton Keynes 1982, he was the only member not invited to the Gabriel benefit, but he was so humble that he payed for his tickett and played the encores only because he was there, it's well known that Tony Banks is not a fan of Steve, so Steve has no reasons to come back.
When Genesis was a POP monster Collins shouted everywhere that Prog was crap, Yes was boring, he rather listen Punk that Pink Floyd, that The Sex Pistols came, shook the trees and Prog bands fell like rotten apples, that Watcher of the Skies was crap they didn't play any more, that he never understood The Lamb and that Peter wasn't able to sing because he used costumes.
Now his argument has changed, Yes was always his favorite band, his favorite album ever is The Lamb, that he wanted a reunion to stay behind the drums and only if Peter accepted to sing, that Hackett was a vital member....Why has he changed? Probably because nobody cares for POP Genesis anymore.
If you were in their shoes, you would probably be the same way.
Honestly not, Peter Gabriel for example changed, he makes less complex music and his concerts are 10 times as profitable as Collins. Last Collins album was the worst ever and he sold NOTHING while Gabriel played in fromt of full auditoriums and Stadiums with tickets at more than 100 bucks each one.
Collins plays with whoever ask him, even N'Sync, Gabriel plays with who he wants as Hackett, Steve just asked and Bill Bruford, Chester Thompson, Ian Mc'Donald, John Wetton, etc where there to release Genesis Revisited and tour with him for Tokyo Tapes.
Look at Pink Floyd, they changed but their albums without Waters are still Pink Floyd, Jethro Tull changed with decency, so did Yes after ONION, Kansas went POP and had to turn back, but Genesis never, that's why Genesis doesn't exist and all the other bands still are popular.
They have had a nice rest and now they can go back to the business of making bushels of money while their bodies are still up for touring. And while the whole idea of all 5 of them going in would be nice, I am sure that the potential conflicts are just not worth it in their eyes.
Peter and Steve are the ones that don't care, their music could not be better, their business are better than ever, Peter's Seal and WOMAD are monsters, Hackett sells everything he releases and has more releases than Collins or Genesis.
Tony Banks doesn't have a single solo successful album, Mike neither (Smallcreeps Day is mediocre at the most) Collins doesn't release anyt profitable CD in almost a decade, why is Collins begging for a reunion while Gabriel and Hackett refuse?
If the business was so good for Genesis, Why in hell they released Calling All Stations with Ray Wilson?
Besides, the biggest portion of the fan base could care less about Peter Gabriel and few of them have even heard of Steve Hackett. In the old pocketbook, the number 3 adds up a whole lot better than 5 in this scenario. Sorry to say.
Sorry but this is not true, POP Genesis doesn't have a fan base, POP audience is not loyal, they sell while they are popular and cool, Genesis ceased to be popular and cool in 1990, I can assure you that Foxtrot or The Lamb alone sold 100 times more albums in the last 10 years that all the 3 men Genesis releases combined.
If somebody is going to support Genesis is the Prog fan base, the POP fans are in their 30's and 40's so they can't care less for their music, but the progheads are faithfull.
Among POP fans almost nobody cares for three 56 years old farts singing Illegal Alien or Invissible Touch but a Lamb Concert would fill every scenaro where they play.
POP is profitable in the first months, Prog has regular sales for decades, that's a fact. Gabriel is an icon inside and outside Prog, he's respected, Collins is a joke everywhere, check South Park, Saturday Night Live or Dharma and Greg 7 or 8 years old chapters.
That's the difference.
Iván
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Chris S
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Joined: June 09 2004
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Posted: October 19 2006 at 20:54 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
johnobvious wrote:
While all of your opinions are certainly valid in our little world here, I am 1000% sure that the three of them could care less.
That's why I can't care less about themm and believe me Collins is desperate.
He's been beging Peter Gabriel and Steve Hackett for two years to reunite, he even offered not to sing and stay behind the drums all night and Gabriel has said ten times that he has other plans and maybe one night would be all.
Steve Hackett was disrespected in Milton Keynes 1982, he was the only member not invited to the Gabriel benefit, but he was so humble that he payed for his tickett and played the encores only because he was there, it's well known that Tony Banks is not a fan of Steve, so Steve has no reasons to come back.
When Genesis was a POP monster Collins shouted everywhere that Prog was crap, Yes was boring, he rather listen Punk that Pink Floyd, that The Sex Pistols came, shook the trees and Prog bands fell like rotten apples, that Watcher of the Skies was crap they didn't play any more, that he never understood The Lamb and that Peter wasn't able to sing because he used costumes.
Now his argument has changed, Yes was always his favorite band, his favorite album ever is The Lamb, that he wanted a reunion to stay behind the drums and only if Peter accepted to sing, that Hackett was a vital member....Why has he changed? Probably because nobody cares for POP Genesis anymore.
If you were in their shoes, you would probably be the same way.
Honestly not, Peter Gabriel for example changed, he makes less complex music and his concerts are 10 times as profitable as Collins. Last Collins album was the worst ever and he sold NOTHING while Gabriel played in fromt of full auditoriums and Stadiums with tickets at more than 100 bucks each one.
Collins plays with whoever ask him, even N'Sync, Gabriel plays with who he wants as Hackett, Steve just asked and Bill Bruford, Chester Thompson, Ian Mc'Donald, John Wetton, etc where there to release Genesis Revisited and tour with him for Tokyo Tapes.
Look at Pink Floyd, they changed but their albums without Waters are still Pink Floyd, Jethro Tull changed with decency, so did Yes after ONION, Kansas went POP and had to turn back, but Genesis never, that's why Genesis doesn't exist and all the other bands still are popular.
They have had a nice rest and now they can go back to the business of making bushels of money while their bodies are still up for touring. And while the whole idea of all 5 of them going in would be nice, I am sure that the potential conflicts are just not worth it in their eyes.
Peter and Steve are the ones that don't care, their music could not be better, their business are better than ever, Peter's Seal and WOMAD are monsters, Hackett sells everything he releases and has more releases than Collins or Genesis.
Tony Banks doesn't have a single solo successful album, Mike neither (Smallcreeps Day is mediocre at the most) Collins doesn't release anyt profitable CD in almost a decade, why is Collins begging for a reunion while Gabriel and Hackett refuse?
If the business was so good for Genesis, Why in hell they released Calling All Stations with Ray Wilson?
Besides, the biggest portion of the fan base could care less about Peter Gabriel and few of them have even heard of Steve Hackett. In the old pocketbook, the number 3 adds up a whole lot better than 5 in this scenario. Sorry to say.
Sorry but this is not true, POP Genesis doesn't have a fan base, POP audience is not loyal, they sell while they are popular and cool, Genesis ceased to be popular and cool in 1990, I can assure you that Foxtrot or The Lamb alone sold 100 times more albums in the last 10 years that all the 3 men Genesis releases combined.
If somebody is going to support Genesis is the Prog fan base, the POP fans are in their 30's and 40's so they can't care less for their music, but the progheads are faithfull.
Among POP fans almost nobody cares for three 56 years old farts singing Illegal Alien or Invissible Touch but a Lamb Concert would fill every scenaro where they play.
POP is profitable in the first months, Prog has regular sales for decades, that's a fact. Gabriel is an icon inside and outside Prog, he's respected, Collins is a joke everywhere, check South Park, Saturday Night Live or Dharma and Greg 7 or 8 years old chapters.
That's the difference.
Iván
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Give this guy a Xanax!!!
Calling TB, PC and MR old farts, I personally find offensive, but it's opinions right?
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<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Joined: April 27 2004
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Posted: October 19 2006 at 21:09 |
Chris Stacey wrote:
Give this guy a Xanax!!!
Calling TB, PC and MR old farts, I personally find offensive, but it's opinions right? |
Please read my post, I'm very careful with what I say, I'm not saying they are old farts, Yes members are older, Pink Floyd members are older, Jethro Tull members are older.
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Among POP fans almost nobody cares for three 56 years old farts singing Illegal Alien or Invissible Touch but a Lamb Concert would fill every scenaro where they play. |
I said that for the POP market based in looks, coolness and popularity they are old farts, the average POP fan stops going to to concerts when he/she gets a job or marries, Prog heads travel countries to see people older than MR, PC and TB even after married or even retired.
Progheads respect their idols, most pop fans only respect popularity.
Sad but truth.
Who buys Micheal Jackson, Andrea True, Donna Summer, Earth Wind & Fire albums despite they were as popular as Genesis?
But progheads keep buying The Lamb, Close to the Edge, Dark Side of the Moon, etc.
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - October 19 2006 at 21:12
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Chris S
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Posted: October 19 2006 at 21:17 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Chris Stacey wrote:
Give this guy a Xanax!!!
Calling TB, PC and MR old farts, I personally find offensive, but it's opinions right? |
Please read my post, I'm very careful with what I say, I'm not saying they are old farts, Yes members are older, Pink Floyd members are older, Jethro Tull members are older.
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Among POP fans almost nobody cares for three 56 years old farts singing Illegal Alien or Invissible Touch but a Lamb Concert would fill every scenaro where they play. |
I said that for the POP market based in looks, coolness and popularity they are old farts, the average POP fan stops going to to concerts when he/she gets a job or marries, Prog heads travel countries to see people older than MR, PC and TB even after married or even retired.
Progheads respect their idols, most pop fans only respect popularity.
Sad but truth.
Who buys Micheal Jackson, Andrea True, Donna Summer, Earth Wind & Fire albums despite they were as popular as Genesis?
But progheads keep buying The Lamb, Close to the Edge, Dark Side of the Moon, etc.
Iván |
Thanks Ivan.....so would you say therfore that TB, PC and MR are highly credible individuals? Can you also educate the masses as to where the POP market evidence you have comes from and also ( more important) to me the statistics on The Lamb, CTTE,DSOTM album sales?? I do not disagree with you on the latter but would love to see you evidence on album sales.....
Rgds
Chris
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<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]
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Passionist
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 14 2005
Location: Finland
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Points: 1119
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Posted: October 19 2006 at 21:17 |
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Ivan, I'll just say that I basically disagree with everything you have said here, but won't quote it all sice it's quite a lot. I won't say bullsh*t because that would be swearing and offending and it's not that. But I'm saying that I agree with the people you're fighting, and some people too.
Let it be known, that should GENESIS ever come near Finland, be it 3 of 5, I'm so there. So what if I enjoyed listening to calling all stations. Duke is still one of my favourites.
I even considered going to see Phil Collins when he was here performing live. He still is one of the best drummers I've heard playing. I don't have anything against him. He didn't ruin Genesis, nor did the two. Gabriel left, Hackett left, sure they have ther reasons, everyone always has. And they left with what they had to give to the band. And after that there was no reason for Banks, Rutherford and Collins to copy stuff Hackett would do for instance, nor a reason to change the name of the band. They're still most of the people in the band, 3 out of 5.
And if Hackett or Gabriel wouldn't care to join this project, I have nothing against that, surely if they don't want to they have their reasons, but it's still bloody Genesis, and I doubt even they'll go denying that. sh*t, it's 4 am, I'm off to bed.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: October 19 2006 at 21:24 |
Passionist wrote:
Ivan, I'll just say that I basically disagree with everything you have said here, but won't quote it all sice it's quite a lot. I won't say bullsh*t because that would be swearing and offending and it's not that. But I'm saying that I agree with the people you're fighting, and some people too.
Let it be known, that should GENESIS ever come near Finland, be it 3 of 5, I'm so there. So what if I enjoyed listening to calling all stations. Duke is still one of my favourites.
I even considered going to see Phil Collins when he was here performing live. He still is one of the best drummers I've heard playing. I don't have anything against him. He didn't ruin Genesis, nor did the two. Gabriel left, Hackett left, sure they have ther reasons, everyone always has. And they left with what they had to give to the band. And after that there was no reason for Banks, Rutherford and Collins to copy stuff Hackett would do for instance, nor a reason to change the name of the band. They're still most of the people in the band, 3 out of 5.
And if Hackett or Gabriel wouldn't care to join this project, I have nothing against that, surely if they don't want to they have their reasons, but it's still bloody Genesis, and I doubt even they'll go denying that. sh*t, it's 4 am, I'm off to bed. |
It's your choice, but for me Genesis ceased to exist the day Hackett left as for most progheads, but everybody is entitled to his/her taste.
If they come to Perú with 3 men (Something I doubt), I will do what I did the day Collins came here, stay at my house or go to a retro Pub to listen Prog music or a olocal band playing classic Rock.
That's my taste and I believe I'm entitled to it as you are to your opinion.
Iván
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Fletch
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Joined: October 19 2006
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Points: 2
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Posted: October 19 2006 at 21:36 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
johnobvious wrote:
While all of your opinions are certainly valid in our little world here, I am 1000% sure that the three of them could care less.
Steve Hackett was disrespected in Milton Keynes 1982, he was the only member not invited to the Gabriel benefit, but he was so humble that he payed for his tickett and played the encores only because he was there, it's well known that Tony Banks is not a fan of Steve, so Steve has no reasons to come back.
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Hi Guys - Ill be honest I don't normally join Forums but after reading the paragraph above (in red) I felt I had to comment, and hopefully by the end of the post you will understand that my comments are not based on hear-say or guess work...
On the night of the Milton Keynes Bowl gig, I was working for Steve Hackett as I had been for the 3 years previous. The phone call came into the Office about Genesis reforming for the Show and Steve WAS invited to rehearsals but was in Brazil at the time. He did, however, return earlier than planned and after speaking with Hit and Run, we duly showed up at Milton Keynes Bowl at around 5pm. I know this, because I drove him there. I also know that it was Steve's decision only to come on for I KNOW WHAT I LIKE - it had nothing to do with anything other than an inability to make the rehearsals during the week. I promise you, he DID NOT have to buy a ticket *lol*.
What happened back-stage before and after the Show would take far too long to detail here, but Ill summarise a conversation Steve and I had sitting in a Motorway cafe, surrounded by people who had been to the Show but failed to recognise the short, bespectacled chap next to me. When I asked him if he had enjoyed himself that night, his reply was "Yes - we laid a lot of ghosts to rest there".
The track "Timelapse at Milton Keynes" was the result of Steve attending this Show, at the request of Genesis, the Band - as a whole - responding to Peter's original request for help.
I don't know whether a new Genesis Tour is planned, but I do know that my account of Steve's part in the Milton Keynes Bowl Show is verifiable and checkable fact.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: October 19 2006 at 22:41 |
Fletch wrote:
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
johnobvious wrote:
While all of your opinions are certainly valid in our little world here, I am 1000% sure that the three of them could care less.
Steve Hackett was disrespected in Milton Keynes 1982, he was the only member not invited to the Gabriel benefit, but he was so humble that he payed for his tickett and played the encores only because he was there, it's well known that Tony Banks is not a fan of Steve, so Steve has no reasons to come back.
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Hi Guys - Ill be honest I don't normally join Forums but after reading the paragraph above (in red) I felt I had to comment, and hopefully by the end of the post you will understand that my comments are not based on hear-say or guess work...
On the night of the Milton Keynes Bowl gig, I was working for Steve Hackett as I had been for the 3 years previous. The phone call came into the Office about Genesis reforming for the Show and Steve WAS invited to rehearsals but was in Brazil at the time. He did, however, return earlier than planned and after speaking with Hit and Run, we duly showed up at Milton Keynes Bowl at around 5pm. I know this, because I drove him there. I also know that it was Steve's decision only to come on for I KNOW WHAT I LIKE - it had nothing to do with anything other than an inability to make the rehearsals during the week. I promise you, he DID NOT have to buy a ticket *lol*.
What happened back-stage before and after the Show would take far too long to detail here, but Ill summarise a conversation Steve and I had sitting in a Motorway cafe, surrounded by people who had been to the Show but failed to recognise the short, bespectacled chap next to me. When I asked him if he had enjoyed himself that night, his reply was "Yes - we laid a lot of ghosts to rest there".
The track "Timelapse at Milton Keynes" was the result of Steve attending this Show, at the request of Genesis, the Band - as a whole - responding to Peter's original request for help.
I don't know whether a new Genesis Tour is planned, but I do know that my account of Steve's part in the Milton Keynes Bowl Show is verifiable and checkable fact. |
I'm sure I messed it here because you were there and I accept it, but the references are contradictory as I repeatedly read.
Will check it anyway because still you can find some contradictory info like the official poster and reading the Genesis Museum http//www.genesismuseum.com/6otb.htm , BUT I'M SURELY wrong:
| On October 2, 1982, Peter Gabriel joined Genesis on stage for a reunion show at the ~Milton Keynes Concert Bowl. It was a charity for ~WOMAD, Gabriel's world music festival whose first happening had lost considerable money. The singer had left his band in 1975 and this was the first time he performed with them again. It was documented by a handful of bootlegs, including Six of the Best (which was the name given to the event). The six musicians in question are 1) Gabriel, the then-Genesis nucleus of 2) Phil Collins, 3) Mike Rutherford, and 4) Tony Banks, and regular live acolytes 5) Chester Thompson (drums) and 6) Daryl Stuermer (guitar). Steve Hackett joined them for the encore. http://shopping.yahoo.com/p:Six%20of%20the%20Best:1921493222 |
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Steve Hackett's departure from the band has always been shrouded in mystery and rumours of unpleasantness, but the simple truth is that Steve felt torn between the band and a solo career. After the success of "Voyage of The Acolyte", and the freedom that came with making a whole album away from the confines of Genesis, remaining in the band became a struggle in many ways.
As for the suggestion of any animosity between Steve and the other members of the band - although it seems that Steve's departure did not hit the band as hard as Peter's or Ant's before him, the fact is that they knew they could carry on, having already survived the loss of those two members, and as Tony Banks said "By then, we were getting used to it!"
Steve joined the band on stage for the encores at the Milton Keynes Reunion show in 1982, and although it seems that he was not initially invited to take part in the whole event, this was because he was in Brazil at the time and the band were not sure if he would want to take part. Once he contacted them to offer his services, the band were only too happy for him to come along and help them out for the encores.
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I APOLOGIZE FOR THE MISTAKE BECAUSE IT'S PROBABLY MINE, BUT I WAS SURE I HAD READ IT SOMEWHERE.
It's good to have someone here who was present to kill some rumors that I honestly had read, and believe me, there are more in the net and if even the official Genesis website publishes that Steve was not invited (Something totally incredible for a musical icon as Steve), then the official poster doesn't mention him and the Six Members can be numbered (Not guess or hear-talk but official info) well, what can we believe?
EDIT: Cassually found I'm not the only one who believed this:
EDIT: I know it sounds forced, but I'm still searching for the specific site that mentioned Steve Hackett was in the audience, I know this is less than likely, but I always verify what I said, I may use a source that results to be inaccurate (That's a risk we all take) but never guess without a references
Still I believe you're more than probably right.
Cheers
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - October 20 2006 at 04:07
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: October 20 2006 at 02:10 |
Chris Stacey wrote:
Thanks Ivan.....so would you say therfore that TB, PC and MR are highly credible individuals?
No, they were and still are talented musicians, they simply chosed the simplest musical form IMO
Can you also educate the masses as to where the POP market evidence you have comes from
Of course I can quote some sources:
[quote]
Each decade in the history of rock music (the ultimate international koine) was marked by an international icon (a koine within the koine).
The 1950s had Elvis Presley (best selling artist for 40 years).
The 1960s had the Beatles (still the best selling band of all times).
The 1970s had Pink Floyd (still the best selling album-oriented band of all times).
The 1980s had U2 and Madonna, and already one could see the Atlantic divide getting wider, and a non-rock artist (Michael Jackson) surpassing all rock artists in generating worldwide hysteria.
The 1990s had very pale icons compared with their predecessors. No rock artist managed to get even close to the sales of non-rock artists such as Mariah Carey, Whitney Houston, Celine Dion, Garth Brooks, Britney Spear, Boyz II Men, etc. The best selling rock albums were one-shot deals from artists such as Oases, Alanis Morissette and Hootie & the Blowfish whose popularity lasted only a few years. Radiohead were darlings of the mainstream press, but hardly recognized by the masses or identified with a social trend.
Eminem opened the 2000s with a bang, but seems to be rapidly fading in the background as the decade progresses.
[quote]
The POP boom started in the late 70's early 80's as we all know, precisely when the artists tend to last less.
- 1950's Elvis the best selling author for 40 years
- 1960's The Beatles are the best selling band ever
- Pink Floyd is still the best selling album oriented band (70's)
- 80's had U2 and Madonna, who are not remotely icons today, still sell, but nothing compáred with their origins
- 90's was even worst, the best sold albums were mostly by one hit wonders, boys bands disapear as fast as they appear, Britney seems to survive
- 2000 started with EMINEM who is also fading.
So it's absolutely evident that the POP audience is less faithful than the Prog or even Classic Rock one.
Something more, the common popular music listenet according to "Listening Behaviour and Musical Preference in the Age of 'Transmitted Music' by Helmut Rosing" (Published by Cambridge University Press) is barely 24 years, most of the Genesis listeners have passed this age largely but we all know that the Prog listener tends to be totally faithful and breaks the rules.
and also ( more important) to me the statistics on The Lamb, CTTE,DSOTM album sales??
I once posted a chart with averages that RIAA has taken or I can't find it, but there are some useful resources to check the total statistics in the historical sales history of some Internet Stores like Amazon that represent mostly the last ten years and it's updated each hour:
- Seconds Out has N° 1,093 in Amazon.com sales Rank
- ATOTT has N° 1,945 in Amazon.com sales Rank
- TLLDOB has N° 1,967 in Amazon.com sales rank
- Foxtrot has N° 2,382 in Amazon.comsales Rank
- Nursery Cryme has N° 2,628 in Amazon.com sales Rank (Oe of the worst sold Genesis albums)
- Trespass has N° 2,790 in Amazon.com sales Rank (The most underrated and probably the worst sold album after From Genesisto the Revelation
- Genesis, has N° 2,899 in the Amazon sales Rank.
- SEBTP has N° 3,386 in the Amazon sales Rank sales Rank
- Invisible Touch, the top selling Genesis album has N° #8,422 in the Amazon sales Rank
- ATTW3 has N° 9,556 in Amazon.com sales Rank
- Duke has N° 20,044 in Amazon.com sales Rank
- We Can't Dance has N° 48,195 in Amazon.com sales Rank
- Calling All Stations has N° 55,078 very close to We Can't Dance.
The only Prog Genesis album with lower ranks than ONLY ONE non Prog one is the friendly SEBTP, and the differences are amazing with Invisible Touch or We Can't Dance, plus remember that The Lamb has CD, CD Remastered and SACD if I'm not wrong.
Now lets see other Prog bands:
- Dark Side of the Moon N° 83
- Close to the Edge N° 1951
- Thick as a Brick N° 1258
I'm sure that you will agree that in UK and all Europe Prog albums will do it much better and Amazon represents 25% ofthe total catalogue sells.
So I don't have the charts removed by RIAA (Not convinient for them) but this is a clear indication of what i said.
I do not disagree with you on the latter but would love to see you evidence on album sales.....
Well a sample of 36,000 is statistically enough from a 10'000,000 universe in general terms, and Amazon represents 25% of the catalogue albums sells which represent 5% of the total sales, so with only 36,000 albums sold we would have a valid statistic with a 0.1% error margin. If the world market of albums was only 10'000,000 items so Amazon is absolutely valid.
Iván
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Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - October 20 2006 at 03:28
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Chris S
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 09 2004
Location: Front Range
Status: Offline
Points: 7028
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Posted: October 20 2006 at 05:23 |
Ivan..
Great evidence provided on album sales, interesting to see that ' Second's Out' sells the most thru Amazon.com too.
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<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian
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Fletch
Forum Newbie
Joined: October 19 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 2
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Posted: October 20 2006 at 10:17 |
Im glad the small amount of information I could contribute has clarified the situation of Steve Hackett playing at the Milton Keynes Bowl Show.
I cannot, and would not try, to answer on behalf of what other people have written on other sites - but the fact is - the truth is the truth, whatever you have seen written to the contrary.
Re: the Six of the Best Program - that was designed and printed in the week immediately prior to the show and at the time of going to press it was felt it was better not to include Steve as he had not been contacted by that time...
By the way - you guys are great! Your love of Prog is infectious and today has had me rooting through the dozens of mixing desk recordings I have of both Steve Hackett and Genesis... thank you for that.
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johnobvious
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 11 2006
Location: Nebraska
Status: Offline
Points: 1367
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Posted: October 20 2006 at 11:36 |
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Ivan, as usual, you have gone to great lengths to prove your point and I respect that. I just think that when you see alot of dinosaurs coming out of the woodwork to tour and the sheep show up in droves, that the 3 piece version would be a bigger draw. You don't ever really hear Gabriel -era Genesis on classic rock radio like Led Zeppelin or the Rolling Stones but the sheep still know about the Collins stuff.
And what I would really like an opinion on is would Gabriel sing latter day Genesis material or would it all have to be from the Lamb on back?
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Biggles was in rehab last Saturday
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