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Sean Trane 
Special Collaborator 
Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Online Points: 20241 |
 Posted: October 04 2006 at 08:40 |
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 to Fred
Zep has exactly six or seven songs that are prog: Dazed And Confused, Stairway and Battle Of Evermore, No Quarter , Rain Song, Kashmir ans Achille's Last stand >> barely an album full.
Sabbath has the first two album in their almost entirety, plus parts of the all the Ozzy albums (bar Technical Ecstasy) and the two with RJ DIO are prog-related
Maiden has three album full of tracks that are at least prog-related
Zep has not got a case, even if I love Zep.
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Online Points: 21196 |
Posted: October 04 2006 at 08:45 |
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^ Maybe you could compile three albums of Iron Maiden songs that are prog-related ... but the problem is that they're scattered over a dozen studio albums. I agree about Led Zeppelin, although I'd add a few songs from LZ 3 (as Prog-Folk Related).
Edited by MikeEnRegalia - October 04 2006 at 08:45 |
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Online Points: 20241 |
Posted: October 04 2006 at 08:59 |
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I also thought about that! On Zep 3: If they are pure folk rock then they are not really more than prog-related. Friends might also be prog-related.
I was not really a suporter of IM's inclusion because of the emotional impact they bring, but I do admit that they had a slight case for inclusion. I'm just not sure what the Archives had to gain from it though.
Edited by Sean Trane - October 04 2006 at 08:59 |
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Online Points: 21196 |
Posted: October 04 2006 at 09:19 |
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^ regarding your green comment: Agreed. Not every track on an album needs to be prog (prog-related) in order to make it prog (prog-related), but I'd say that it should be more than 2/3.
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WaywardSon
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: April 23 2006 Location: Brazil Status: Offline Points: 2537 |
Posted: October 04 2006 at 09:35 |
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I am all for Maiden´s inclusion here (as I stated in an earlier post)
The problem is the genre in which they have been placed.
Maybe they should be whisked off to Prog Metal instead of being the only metal band in Prog Related
OR
Put into a genre of Proto Prog Metal (together with Priest and Sabbath) as they are more an influence to Prog Metal than a band with lots of Prog elements.
I am pleased to see them here but at the same time I can understand all the confusion and frustration.
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: July 16 2004 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 11979 |
Posted: October 04 2006 at 09:36 |
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I think that Proto-Prog Metal would be more relevant to a Metal database than here.
However, never say "never"... |
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Bilek
Forum Senior Member 
VIP Member Joined: July 05 2005 Location: Turkey Status: Offline Points: 1484 |
Posted: October 04 2006 at 09:45 |
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I can't help agreeing you. I always regarded Zep as a blues-dominated hard-rock band, with some prog scattered here and there. They get pretty much wild in concert, though... Actually, the first two albums (as well as some later released material from that era) show obvious psychedelic references. Check out "White Summer/Black Mountain Side" from box set, for instance...
as for Sabbath, their Bloody Sabbath album is almost entirely prog (with a strong touch of Wakey!), and I can't agree more, on your statement "bar Techn."... After Ozzy, things unfortunately got worse (prog-wise).
well; what about Led Zep off-shoot Page & Plant's first live album? it has some of the songs in your proggy list, and some more "progified" by adding a touch of "arabesque" string section! "Friends" never sounded better, IMHO! and what about the previously-bluesy "Nobody's Fault But Mine"
 ? Also some folky songs of early period (Gallows Pole, Four Sticks) turn into prog-folk. Not to mention the magnificent rendering of Kashmir.sorry for going off topic!
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Listen to Turkish psych/prog; you won't regret:
Baris Manco,Erkin Koray,Cem Karaca,Mogollar,3 Hürel,Selda,Edip Akbayram,Fikret Kizilok,Ersen (and Dadaslar) (but stick with the '70's, and 'early 80's!) |
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Online Points: 20241 |
Posted: October 04 2006 at 09:56 |
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That Unledded album has become my favorite of theirs I have to say. Many of those songs are better than the originals.
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
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Swanhild
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 09 2006 Location: Brazil Status: Offline Points: 133 |
Posted: October 04 2006 at 10:00 |
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The way metal is seen and classified by metalheads could be relevant for this discussion? I do not believe that they would say that Maiden is prog-metal. For me it seems better that they are in Prog Related rather than Prog-metal.
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Philéas
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 14 2006 Status: Offline Points: 6419 |
Posted: October 04 2006 at 10:32 |
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No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. |
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Uther
Forum Groupie 
Joined: August 04 2006 Location: Chile Status: Offline Points: 86 |
Posted: October 05 2006 at 15:30 |
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Well Subject IM....more replyes and more threads....There are some People that they care so much their personal tastes and biases.
I was censored by the team ( a while) for making and posting some polls and threads about it
They don't like Zep, very popular so we don't expect Zep or unledded could be add
Hope to not be censored this time. This site is public so we must feel free to post our opinions
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What! can the devil speak true?
Macbeth, 1. 3 |
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: February 21 2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 15585 |
Posted: October 05 2006 at 17:10 |
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Uther,
Any decision on whether or not a band is added does not take into account whether or not those taking the decision like the band or not. To suggest such shows disrespect for the integrity of our members, teams of experts and for the admin team.
Also, you have never been prevented from voicing your opinions. Action would only be taken if you are considered to be in breach of the site rules.
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TheProgtologist
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: May 23 2005 Location: Baltimore,Md US Status: Offline Points: 27802 |
Posted: October 05 2006 at 17:16 |
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Maiden was considered for prog metal and after we discussed them and voted on them they were ultimately rejected.So don't look for them to be moved to that category.
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65266 |
Posted: October 07 2006 at 01:35 |
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Iron Maiden were a metal band that had unusually progressive tendencies-- more than other previous bands of their ilk (Sabbath, Priest, Scorps). There is very little doubt they generated the spark that started what is best described as progressive metal. Remember; Prog metal is metal with progressive leanings rather than heavy prog like Rush. Maiden are prog metal, they are prog-related, they were the most important band of the era-- much more than Metallica, Angelwitch, Exodus or Motorhead. They belong here and 'prog-related' is better than nothing. As far as Zep goes, they were progressive by nature but *not* Progressive. Zep started the idea of heavy blues/metal but moved on quickly, passing the torch to Black Sabbath.
Edited by Atavachron - October 07 2006 at 02:04 |
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Hatters
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 06 2006 Status: Offline Points: 466 |
Posted: October 09 2006 at 14:18 |
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NO, simple as.
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Sasquamo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 26 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 828 |
Posted: October 09 2006 at 21:20 |
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My only fear is that these prog-related bands will start to get as much attention as the real prog bands.
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SolariS
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 27 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 891 |
Posted: October 09 2006 at 23:22 |
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To me, good music is good music. I don't care for IM, but if a number of progressive rock fans find a certain band interesting, I want to know about it. The nice thing about a prog-related category is that it gives us a chance to review and discuss albums that are similar to prog, but are not full-blown enough to be considered prog. A number of bands have one or two very progressive albums. Why completely exclude them simply because the rest of the catalogue is not? |
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SolariS
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 27 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 891 |
Posted: October 09 2006 at 23:24 |
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Oh, and last I checked, Prog-Related was not winning the vote for favorite genre listed on this site: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=29511 So, I think you're safe.  |
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Bilek
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member Joined: July 05 2005 Location: Turkey Status: Offline Points: 1484 |
Posted: October 10 2006 at 03:01 |
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 ... Your last sentence may even apply to notorious bands such as Genesis... (fans don't bash me, there's almost consensus that their post '80 works are not prog at all... Well, the previous ones are best of symphonic rock, that's another story...)
Yet, the problem with all these bands (in the prog-related category) is that they might be mixed up with "full-blown" prog bands, so as to distract attention (just as Sasquamo's concern). This site's first and foremost aim is to advertise progressive rock music, not honour bands which came close to making prog in a certain phase of their careers!!! For this reason I'm repeating my suggestion that I made several times before: the bands in prog-related category (after the transfer of Peter Gabriel to some other genre
) must somehow be kept seperate from the other subgenres, and reviews should not be featured on the homepage (or homepage must be split into two, showing prog-related album reviews at the bottom). This way a newcomer, who tries to investigate what prog actually is, would not see 3 Iron Maiden, 2 Ten CC, 1 ELO, 3 Queen, 1 Fairport Convention and 1 Wishbone Ash etc. albums! (btw, I just realised Troya is also in prog-related! Remove it elsewhere, please! it's more prog than most bands in art-rock...)I know, this is a hard task, and might take a lot of time, but I believe it will pay off in the long run and save us from needless arguments like this
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Listen to Turkish psych/prog; you won't regret:
Baris Manco,Erkin Koray,Cem Karaca,Mogollar,3 Hürel,Selda,Edip Akbayram,Fikret Kizilok,Ersen (and Dadaslar) (but stick with the '70's, and 'early 80's!) |
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toolis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 26 2006 Location: MacedoniaGreece Status: Offline Points: 1678 |
Posted: October 10 2006 at 08:55 |
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"Seventh Son.." is already in No 174, surpassing tons of true prog albums... no comment... |
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-music is like pornography...
sometimes amateurs turn us on, even more... -sometimes you are the pigeon and sometimes you are the statue... |
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Should Iron Maiden have been put on the A
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Spiderprog wrote: