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Topic ClosedShould Iron Maiden have been put on the A
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Poll Question: Should Iron Maiden have been put on the Archives?
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35 [41.67%]
37 [44.05%]
12 [14.29%]
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Sean Trane View Drop Down
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Points: 20239 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2006 at 08:40
LOL to Fred
 
 
Originally posted by Spiderprog Spiderprog wrote:

OK let's say that they are Prog Related is it logical to include Iron Maiden and not Led Zeppelin?
They are a hundred times more Prog Related. And if you include them you pave the way to so many more bands that this website is in danger of losing its identity


 

 
Zep has exactly six or seven songs that are prog: Dazed And Confused, Stairway and Battle Of Evermore, No Quarter , Rain Song, Kashmir ans Achille's Last stand  >> barely an album full.
 
Sabbath has the first two album in their almost entirety, plus parts of the all the Ozzy albums (bar Technical Ecstasy) and the two with RJ DIO are prog-related
 
Maiden has three album full of tracks that are at least prog-related
 
 
Zep has not got a case, even if I love Zep.
 
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Points: 21138 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2006 at 08:45
^ Maybe you could compile three albums of Iron Maiden songs that are prog-related ... but the problem is that they're scattered over a dozen studio albums. I agree about Led Zeppelin, although I'd add a few songs from LZ 3 (as Prog-Folk Related).

Edited by MikeEnRegalia - October 04 2006 at 08:45
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Sean Trane View Drop Down
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Points: 20239 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2006 at 08:59
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ Maybe you could compile three albums of Iron Maiden songs that are prog-related ... but the problem is that they're scattered over a dozen studio albums. >> Ditto for Sabbath really!!! but can we say that every trackon a Genesis album is prog? I count two non-proig tracks in Nursery Cryme and one in Foxtrot and one in SEBTP, a few in Lamb, one in W&W, and it goes worse from Duke onwards
 
I agree about Led Zeppelin, although I'd add a few songs from LZ 3 (as Prog-Folk Related).
 
I also thought about that! On Zep 3: If they are pure folk rock then they are not really more than prog-related. Friends might also be prog-related.
 
I was not really a suporter of IM's inclusion because of the emotional impact they bring, but I do admit that they had a slight case for inclusion. I'm just not sure what the Archives had to gain from it though.
 
 
 
 
 


Edited by Sean Trane - October 04 2006 at 08:59
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 21138 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2006 at 09:19
^ regarding your green comment: Agreed. Not every track on an album needs to be prog (prog-related) in order to make it prog (prog-related), but I'd say that it should be more than 2/3.
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WaywardSon View Drop Down
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Points: 2537 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2006 at 09:35
I am all for Maiden´s inclusion here (as I stated in an earlier post)
The problem is the genre in which they have been placed.
Maybe they should be whisked off to Prog Metal instead of being the only metal band in Prog Related
OR
Put into a genre of Proto Prog Metal (together with Priest and Sabbath) as they are more an influence to Prog Metal than a band with lots of Prog elements.
 
I am pleased to see them here but at the same time I can understand all the confusion and frustration.
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Tony R View Drop Down
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Points: 11979 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2006 at 09:36
I think that Proto-Prog Metal would be more relevant to a Metal database than here.
However, never say "never"...
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Points: 1484 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2006 at 09:45
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Zep has exactly six or seven songs that are prog: Dazed And Confused, Stairway and Battle Of Evermore, No Quarter , Rain Song, Kashmir ans Achille's Last stand  >> barely an album full.
 
Sabbath has the first two album in their almost entirety, plus parts of the all the Ozzy albums (bar Technical Ecstasy) and the two with RJ DIO are prog-related
 
Maiden has three album full of tracks that are at least prog-related
 
 
Zep has not got a case, even if I love Zep.
 
 
I can't help agreeing you. I always regarded Zep as a blues-dominated hard-rock band, with some prog scattered here and there. They get pretty much wild in concert, though... Actually, the first two albums (as well as some later released material from that era) show obvious psychedelic references. Check out "White Summer/Black Mountain Side" from box set, for instance...
 
as for Sabbath, their Bloody Sabbath album is almost entirely prog (with a strong touch of Wakey!), and I can't agree more, on your statement "bar Techn."... After Ozzy, things unfortunately got worse (prog-wise).
 
well; what about Led Zep off-shoot Page & Plant's first live album? it has some of the songs in your proggy list, and some more "progified" by adding a touch of "arabesque" string section! "Friends" never sounded better, IMHO! and what about the previously-bluesy "Nobody's Fault But Mine"Wink ? Also some folky songs of early period (Gallows Pole, Four Sticks) turn into prog-folk. Not to mention the magnificent rendering of Kashmir.
 
sorry for going off topic!
Listen to Turkish psych/prog; you won't regret:
Baris Manco,Erkin Koray,Cem Karaca,Mogollar,3 Hürel,Selda,Edip Akbayram,Fikret Kizilok,Ersen (and Dadaslar) (but stick with the '70's, and 'early 80's!)
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Sean Trane View Drop Down
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Points: 20239 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2006 at 09:56
Originally posted by Bilek Bilek wrote:

 
 
well; what about Led Zep off-shoot Page & Plant's first live album? it has some of the songs in your proggy list, and some more "progified" by adding a touch of "arabesque" string section! "Friends" never sounded better, IMHO! and what about the previously-bluesy "Nobody's Fault But Mine"Wink ? Also some folky songs of early period (Gallows Pole, Four Sticks) turn into prog-folk. Not to mention the magnificent rendering of Kashmir.
 
sorry for going off topic!
 
That Unledded album has become my favorite of theirs I have to say. Many of those songs are better than the originals.
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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Points: 133 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2006 at 10:00
The way metal is seen and classified by metalheads could be relevant for this discussion? I do not believe that they would say that Maiden is prog-metal. For me it seems better that they are in Prog Related rather than Prog-metal.
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Points: 6419 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2006 at 10:32
Originally posted by WaywardSon WaywardSon wrote:

Maybe they should be whisked off to Prog Metal instead of being the only metal band in Prog Related


No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No.
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Uther View Drop Down
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Points: 86 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2006 at 15:30
Well Subject IM....more replyes and more threads....There are some People that they care so much their personal tastes and  biases.
 
 
 
I was censored by the team ( a while)  for making and posting some polls and threads about it
 
They don't like Zep, very popular so we don't expect Zep or unledded could be add
 
Hope to not be censored this time. This site is public so we  must feel free to  post our opinions Censored
 
 
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Macbeth, 1. 3
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Easy Livin View Drop Down
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Points: 15585 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2006 at 17:10
Uther,
 
Any decision on whether or not a band is added does not take into account whether or not those taking the decision like the band or not. To suggest such shows disrespect for the integrity of our members, teams of experts and for the admin team.
 
Also, you have never been prevented from voicing your opinions. Action would only be taken if you are considered to be in breach of the site rules.
 
 
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Points: 27802 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2006 at 17:16
Maiden was considered for prog metal and after we discussed them and voted on them they were ultimately rejected.So don't look for them to be moved to that category.


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Points: 65248 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2006 at 01:35
Iron Maiden were a metal band that had unusually progressive tendencies-- more than other previous bands of their ilk (Sabbath, Priest, Scorps). There is very little doubt they generated the spark that started what is best described as progressive metal. Remember; Prog metal is metal with progressive leanings rather than heavy prog like Rush. Maiden are prog metal, they are prog-related, they were the most important band of the era-- much more than Metallica, Angelwitch, Exodus or Motorhead. They belong here and 'prog-related' is better than nothing.   As far as Zep goes, they were progressive by nature but *not* Progressive. Zep started the idea of heavy blues/metal but moved on quickly, passing the torch to Black Sabbath.
    

Edited by Atavachron - October 07 2006 at 02:04
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Points: 466 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2006 at 14:18
NO, simple as.
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Points: 828 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2006 at 21:20
My only fear is that these prog-related bands will start to get as much attention as the real prog bands.
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Points: 891 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2006 at 23:22
Originally posted by Sasquamo Sasquamo wrote:

My only fear is that these prog-related bands will start to get as much attention as the real prog bands.


To me, good music is good music. I don't care for IM, but if a number of progressive rock fans find a certain band interesting, I want to know about it. The nice thing about a prog-related category is that it gives us a chance to review and discuss albums that are similar to prog, but are not full-blown enough to be considered prog. A number of bands have one or two very progressive albums. Why completely exclude them simply because the rest of the catalogue is not?
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Points: 891 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2006 at 23:24

Oh, and last I checked, Prog-Related was not winning the vote for favorite genre listed on this site:

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=29511


So, I think you're safe.

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Points: 1484 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 10 2006 at 03:01
Originally posted by SolariS SolariS wrote:

Originally posted by Sasquamo Sasquamo wrote:

My only fear is that these prog-related bands will start to get as much attention as the real prog bands.


To me, good music is good music. I don't care for IM, but if a number of progressive rock fans find a certain band interesting, I want to know about it. The nice thing about a prog-related category is that it gives us a chance to review and discuss albums that are similar to prog, but are not full-blown enough to be considered prog. A number of bands have one or two very progressive albums. Why completely exclude them simply because the rest of the catalogue is not?

Your argument about prog-related category is very reasoned and legitimate. That's what I always thought about bands like The Who, Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden etc, but simply couldn't put my ideas in a concise way Confused... Your last sentence may even apply to notorious bands such as Genesis... (fans don't bash me, there's almost consensus that their post '80 works are not prog at all... Well, the previous ones are best of symphonic rock, that's another story...)
 
Yet, the problem with all these bands (in the prog-related category) is that they might be mixed up with "full-blown" prog bands, so as to distract attention (just as Sasquamo's concern). This site's first and foremost aim is to advertise progressive rock music, not honour bands which came close to making prog in a certain phase of their careers!!! For this reason I'm repeating my suggestion that I made several times before: the bands in prog-related category (after the transfer of Peter Gabriel to some other genreWink) must somehow be kept seperate from the other subgenres, and reviews should not be featured on the homepage (or homepage must be split into two, showing prog-related album reviews at the bottom). This way a newcomer, who tries to investigate what prog actually is, would not see 3 Iron Maiden, 2 Ten CC, 1 ELO, 3 Queen, 1 Fairport Convention and 1 Wishbone Ash etc. albums! (btw, I just realised Troya is also in prog-related! Remove it elsewhere, please! it's more prog than most bands in art-rock...)
 
I know, this is a hard task, and might take a lot of time, but I believe it will pay off in the long run and save us from needless arguments like this Wink
Listen to Turkish psych/prog; you won't regret:
Baris Manco,Erkin Koray,Cem Karaca,Mogollar,3 Hürel,Selda,Edip Akbayram,Fikret Kizilok,Ersen (and Dadaslar) (but stick with the '70's, and 'early 80's!)
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Points: 1678 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 10 2006 at 08:55

"Seventh Son.." is already in No 174, surpassing tons of true prog albums...

no comment...
-music is like pornography...

sometimes amateurs turn us on, even more...



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