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toolis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 26 2006
Location: MacedoniaGreece
Status: Offline
Points: 1678
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Posted: September 08 2006 at 02:49 |
Ghost Rider wrote:
Certif1ed wrote:
Eetu Pellonpää wrote:
I think it's about violently pushing the barriers of theoretical fences, which create territories for conceptual entities. "This is PROG!" |
Taking that description, then we should be considering all genres of electronica, like Trance, Jungle, Drum and Bass and all the recent derivatives with silly names.
We should also be seriously thinking about Punk - how violently were the barriers pushed by that music?
Then there's rap, techno, chill-out, and all the other popular forms in which barriers have been pushed if not broken.
In short, that reasoning by itself is insufficient.
And I have to say that reasoning is in short supply in this thread...
| So, why do you bother to post here, if we are all unreasoning brutes? Do you realise that this is not a very complimentary remark, or is it just that you don't care? |
i'm sorry but i would have to agree with Certif1ed... i too have the feeling that the arguments of those who wish to see Maiden in the PA are broods of their love to the band and not reason...
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-music is like pornography...
sometimes amateurs turn us on, even more...
-sometimes you are the pigeon and sometimes you are the statue...
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Cheesecakemouse
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 1751
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Posted: September 08 2006 at 04:30 |
Joren wrote:
Eetu Pellonpää wrote:
toolis wrote:
we mustn't confuse tech metal with prog metal... My Dying Bride had long tracks cause they are a doom metal band not proggy at all... bands like Sepultura or Coroner and Autopsy are/were tech thrash/death, not prog metal... |
I agree your categorizations, and I'm sure you know about the metal stuff more than me, but the features mentioned here (long tracks, unconventional rhtyhms) are still the same to which many people point when claiming some bands as progressive, won't you agree?
I think it's about violently pushing the barriers of theoretical fences, which create territories for conceptual entities. "This is PROG!" One could also claim that all jazz influenced prog rock which are here labelled as jazz rock / fusion, is not prog at all, but they are jazz! |
Good point.
Al di Meola for instance is more jazz than he is prog. And there are much more of these artists in PA.
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Actually fusion was and still is considered prog rock,Miles Davis BB is considered prog (the other muscians all deny it is jazz but something else) I know that his label calls it prog along side On the corner A tribute to Jack Johnson and in a Silent way. Fusion is a category in prog during the 70s there was no distinction between fusion bands and prog bands they were all lumped together. I you want fusion out what is to stop Krautrock, Zeuhl and other sub genres to get booted out?
Fusion was label given to this style of prog years later.
Edited by Cheesecakemouse - September 08 2006 at 04:31
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Raff
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 29 2005
Location: None
Status: Offline
Points: 24429
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Posted: September 08 2006 at 04:37 |
Guys, please remember that this is a thread about Iron Maiden, not jazz, fusion or whatever...
As to Toolis' remarks, please refer to what I wrote earlier on in this thread. As far as I know, most of the people who have posted here are quite knowledgeable about music, and saying that they don't use their reasoning just because they want to see their favourite band in PA is unfair, not to mention at least potentially offensive. So, I would ask everyone to refrain from such comments, as I wouldn't like to have to close the thread.
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Joren
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 07 2004
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 6667
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Posted: September 08 2006 at 04:42 |
Cheesecakemouse wrote:
Actually fusion was and still is considered prog rock,Miles Davis BB is considered prog (the other muscians all deny it is jazz but something else) I know that his label calls it prog along side On the corner A tribute to Jack Johnson and in a Silent way. Fusion is a category in prog during the 70s there was no distinction between fusion bands and prog bands they were all lumped together. I you want fusion out what is to stop Krautrock, Zeuhl and other sub genres to get booted out?
Fusion was label given to this style of prog years later. | Sorry Ghost Rider...
Fusion was actually more something of a jazz subgenre - as you said, founded by Miles Davis. But some bands are associated with prog, and with good reason. I don't want fusion out of the archives. I was just saying that a lot of fusion artists on the site have only a slight connection with rock (prog or not) - take Di Meola or Bruford's Earthworks for instance.
*Raises his voice* Anyway, back to Iron Maiden -->
Cheesecakemouse, if you'd like to continue this discussion, I suggest we do it via PM.
Edited by Joren - September 08 2006 at 04:44
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toolis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 26 2006
Location: MacedoniaGreece
Status: Offline
Points: 1678
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Posted: September 08 2006 at 05:44 |
Ghost Rider wrote:
Guys, please remember that this is a thread about Iron Maiden, not jazz, fusion or whatever...As to Toolis' remarks, please refer to what I wrote earlier on in this thread. As far as I know, most of the people who have posted here are quite knowledgeable about music, and saying that they don't use their reasoning just because they want to see their favourite band in PA is unfair, not to mention at least potentially offensive. So, I would ask everyone to refrain from such comments, as I wouldn't like to have to close the thread.
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don't take it the wrong way.. fans that put their feelings before objectiveness are not stupid, neither lack of knowledge.. i, myself, find it romantic, and have done it before...to try and persuade us to accept Maiden as prog is sth like that to me...
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-music is like pornography...
sometimes amateurs turn us on, even more...
-sometimes you are the pigeon and sometimes you are the statue...
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WaywardSon
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 23 2006
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 2537
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Posted: September 08 2006 at 12:12 |
I really think it´s time they were accepted.
Maybe prog purists dread the thought of seeing albums like "Powerslave" and "Dance of Death" being reviewed on the homepage, but when you think of it, we already have albums like "Hot Space" and "Play the Game" by Queen (plus a lot of other "shady" albums being reviewed)
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21206
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Posted: September 08 2006 at 15:32 |
WaywardSon wrote:
I really think it´s time they were accepted.
Maybe prog purists dread the thought of seeing albums like "Powerslave" and "Dance of Death" being reviewed on the homepage, but when you think of it, we already have albums like "Hot Space" and "Play the Game" by Queen (plus a lot of other "shady" albums being reviewed)
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The difference between Powerslave and Hot Space is that Powerslave is one of Iron Maiden's most progressive albums, while Hot Space is one of Queen's least progressive albums.
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Barla
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 13 2006
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 4309
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Posted: September 09 2006 at 17:53 |
No, because, most of people (including me) wouldn't think of Iron Maiden as a Prog band. The same happens to me with Metallica.
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