Should Iron Maiden be classified as Prog-
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Suggest New Bands and Artists
Forum Description: Suggest, create polls, and classify new bands you would like included on Prog Archives
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=27980
Printed Date: December 02 2024 at 03:43
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Should Iron Maiden be classified as Prog-
Posted By: lastdodobird
Subject: Should Iron Maiden be classified as Prog-
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 04:54
| Iron Maiden has actually given off a very prog feel oftentimes, and now, with the release of their latest album - " A Matter of Life and Death" - which has been dubbed as "their most prog yet", I just have to ask if they should be classified as "prog-metal"? |
Replies:
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 05:00
A definitely positive answer from me.... But I'm not a member of the PM team, and I know some of the actual members are against their inclusion. Sad, but there's nothing to do about it...
|
Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 05:03
|
This subject has been discussed many times in PA, many feel they should be included - they're a very borderline case, though their new album "A Matter of Life and Death"is a reasonable argument for inclusion!
-------------  Prog Archives Tour Van 
|
Posted By: RoyalJelly
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 05:03
| Aren't there enough Heavy Metal discussion forums? Would we then have to include Techno and Hip Hop that sometimes has a "prog feel"? |
Posted By: Trickster F.
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 05:06
|
Once again, no, and I've heard their latest too. ------------- sig |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 05:26
|
Yesterday I listened to Seventh Son again - I last listened to it more than 15 years ago. I'd say that a good part of the album is progressive. Then on the other hand some songs are not progressive at all, and that makes it hard to judge the album as a whole. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to: 
|
Posted By: Big Ears
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 05:31
| Classic Rock magazine has referred to them as such. |
Posted By: lastdodobird
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 05:36
Well okay, they don't just have a "prog feel", they do sound prog; and, they don't just do it sometimes. From midway through their career, they've almost always sounded prog.
I did a search and it didn't yield any topics about Iron Maiden on the prog lounge so I cooked this one up.
Positive answer from me too. |
RoyalJelly wrote:Posted By: sularetal
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 05:37
|
Iron Maiden prog??? Thats the band that made me start listening to metal (like most of the people I know). Now I cant really stand them (generally power metal stuff). I cant stand other bands like nightwish and rhapsody too but i see they are on PA. Its like wanting to put on PA all the bands we like, trying to make others belive they are. If a band isnt prog its fine with me. I cant stand this tendency to call "prog" all the bands that we like. For example, the fact that rhapsody apart from power metal have also orchestral strings, doesn't make them prog. This doesnt mean its crap, just not prog. Thats my opinion though.... ------------- 
|
Posted By: Chipiron
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 05:40
|
IMO, they're more "Prog" than some other artists in PA, but... ------------- [IMG]http://www.belderrain.es/GIFs/tora.gif"> |
Posted By: Trickster F.
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 05:53
There is your answer, how do expect to find topics about a band not in the archives in the sub forum for bands that are in the archives?
 This has been discussed to death, and I think there is about one Prog-Metal specialist in favour of their inclusion. ------------- sig |
Posted By: KeyserSoze
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 06:01
|
Iron Maiden prog?? Ok, we can add Judas Priest and AC/DC into PA as well and then every band in the world... ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/mhron/?chartstyle=artists" rel="nofollow"> 
|
Posted By: sularetal
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 06:06
 Why dont priest have prog moments????
kiddin'... -------------
|
Posted By: lastdodobird
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 06:07
The only difference being that Iron Maiden actually has an argument for it. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 06:09
|
^ are you sure you know what you're talking about - do you know Seventh Son, Brave New World and their latest album? I don't see how anyone could compare them to any AC/DC album - they're miles apart in terms of progressiveness.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
|
Posted By: Hatters
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 06:53
|
Personally I dont understand why Fates Waring, Fantomas etc are called prog and Iron Maiden is not because when I listen to them they sound the same as Maiden. -------------  http://www.last.fm/user/SHatters/?chartstyle=basic10"> 
|
Posted By: RoyalJelly
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 07:47
| Why not start a new website, called http://www.heavymetalwithprogmomentsarchives.com - www.heavymetalwithprogmomentsarchives.com ? |
Posted By: KeyserSoze
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 07:51
 ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/mhron/?chartstyle=artists" rel="nofollow">
|
Posted By: RoyalJelly
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 07:52
| Why not start a new website, called http://www.heavymetalwithprogmomentsarchives.com - www.heavymetalwithprogmomentsarchives.com ? |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 08:08
Actually, Priest DO have prog moments - I would recommend you check their "Sad Wings of Destiny", which has very often be mentioned here as a possible 'ancestor' of prog-metal. As regards Iron Maiden, there has been extensive debate on the possibility of including them not as a full-fledged PM band, but rather as Prog-Related - which, in my very, very humble opinion, would be quite fair to them, seen as the section includes a band like Wishbone Ash, often quoted by IM themselves as one of their main influences. |
Posted By: mr.burns
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 08:17
|
What about muse?Its not exactly prog either!Its got its moments with proglike sections,but maiden has lot more of that and are generally more prog than muse.I could probably mentioned many other bands that are in the archives,but i`ll start with this one ------------- Father Ted: Sheep like all wool-bearing animals, instinctively travel north. Where it's colder, and they won't be so stuffy. |
Posted By: Taril
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 08:19
|
Im against their inclusion. Prog moments they may have, but that still doesnt make them a Prog band. Their heavy metal. If we include them, Whats next? Ac/dc, Metallica? Where will the madness end. If someone wants to create a site for prog sounding records from NON-Prog bands go right ahead, but this is for Pure Prog bands only. ------------- Bright Ambassadors of Morning |
Posted By: mr.burns
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 08:23
|
There are so many bands on this site that cant be considered prog,but has its prog moments.And please dont compare ac/dc with maiden,it just embarresses you.They are worlds apart,compare them with fates warning andbands in that category ------------- Father Ted: Sheep like all wool-bearing animals, instinctively travel north. Where it's colder, and they won't be so stuffy. |
Posted By: mr.burns
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 08:26
|
And also i noticed uriah heep and deep purple are on this site,sure they`ve got their proggy moments but prog? ------------- Father Ted: Sheep like all wool-bearing animals, instinctively travel north. Where it's colder, and they won't be so stuffy. |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 08:30
I'm sorry to have to disabuse you, but your last statement is not correct. As a matter of fact, the Prog-Related section was created just in order to host bands or artists which, in some way or the other, have a connection with Prog, even if they are not 'pure prog' as you said. I would advise you to go and have a look at the bands/artists contained in this section to check if what I'm saying is true... BTW, this is not meant in any way to justify IM's inclusion. Of course, it is quite clear that I am in favour, but I also know that the decision is NOT in my hands, and I don't want to irritate my esteemed colleagues of the PM team by carrying on like that forever. |
Posted By: Taril
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 08:36
|
Well then I apologize, though I always assumed this place was for pure prog guess I was wrong(That would explain some things) I still am completely against IM' s inclusion. ------------- Bright Ambassadors of Morning |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 08:42
Fantomas sound like Maiden ... I'm curious, which song are you referring to? ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
|
Posted By: Joren
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 08:44
Well, actually, the first Judas Priest album is a bit psychedelic, and the second could be classified as something like proto-prog metal. Anyway, I don't think Iron Maiden should be included. They might be influenced by some prog bands, and their music might have a 'proggy feel' sometimes, but not enough to be included, IMO, not even in prog related. The only 'classic' metal band that I would like to see here in prog related is Mercyful Fate. Their first two albums have very proggy moments and I'm sure they influenced prog metal. |
Posted By: WaywardSon
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 08:48
That is why they are in Proto Prog or Prog Related
|
Posted By: Trickster F.
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 08:49
I think everyone no'ed them, Joren(talking about MF). ------------- sig |
Posted By: mr.burns
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 08:54
|
Änd maiden is not prog related? ------------- Father Ted: Sheep like all wool-bearing animals, instinctively travel north. Where it's colder, and they won't be so stuffy. |
Posted By: Bj-1
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 09:03
|
Maiden is way more prog than most of the Prog-Related bands featured in the archives. ------------- RIO/AVANT/ZEUHL - The best thing you can get with yer pants on! |
Posted By: MattiR
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 09:04
|
Maybe all of metal bands are "prog". All black metal, all death metal Don't change history of metal music... |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 09:11
|
Well their laterst album is just as proggy as Seventh Son. And this makes them a harder case to refuse their inclusion. As far as I am concerned this makes two proggy albums out 15 or 16.
Of course this is up to the PM team to decide (I'm not going as far as to say I do not give a hoot either), but if we are to include tem then they could be in prog-related without scandalising/antaginizing too many members. ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Joren
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 09:12
Bugger! Conservatives!  |
Posted By: Joren
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 09:22
I think their debut actually contains some of their most proggy moments. Phantom Of The Opera anyone? |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 09:23
Their debut and Killers are more punkmetal than progmetal if you ask me.
Paul DiAnno had a much better voice than Bruce Bruce (Dickinson's real name)
------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Joren
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 09:33
- Punk metal??? It can't get any crazier than this. - I think Remember Tomorrow, Phantom Of The Opera, Transylvania and Strange World are pretty proggy. Especially Phantom. Apart from that, its simply one of their very best albums.  - I wouldn't say DiAnno had a better voice, but I preferred him as well. - Bruce Bruce is his real name? I always thought it was just a nickname he had when he was still in Samson. General remark: if Iron Maiden would be included, nobody could refuse the addition of Metallica, since they had a considerable influence on prog metal. And when both Iron Maiden AND Metallica are in, many more requests will follow. I actually agree that Iron Maiden might have enough reason to be here in prog related (and they're a great band, without question), but I wouldn't want ProgArchives to lose its focus: prog. |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 09:52
Agreed
 for Samson : you might be right about it being a nickname! ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: lastdodobird
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 21:14
If that's the case, then maybe the whole proto-prog and prog-related subgeneres should be totally wiped out from PA... |
Posted By: Joren
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 21:16
No, they serve a purpose. I just don't think we should 'stray too far away'. I mean, the Archives' proto-prog and prog related sections should contain bands and artist that prog fans can at least relate to. |
Posted By: decypher
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 21:47
|
oh, Mercyful Fate aren't in the prog archives? Hm. |
Posted By: Forgotten Son
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 22:35
I think they have a strong case for inclusion in the archives as a Prog related band. Tracks like Phantom of the Opera, Alexander the Great and Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner are pure Prog IMO, not to mention a huge number of tracks with many Proggy moments. They were often compared to Marillion back in the 80s, also, so I don't see why it's such a huge leap.
|
Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 22:42
| Phantom of the Opera, Transylvania, Hallowed Be Thy Name, Powerslave, Rime of the Ancient Mariner, Alexander the Great, the entire Seventh Son album, Sign of the Cross, Paschendale, and the new album are all great prog-metal songs/albums. I'd go with their inclusion as prog related, cause prog metal is too much, cause they arent 100%. if not, i can always check stuff out on them at http://www.metal-archives.com - www.metal-archives.com although that site leans towards the death/black metal side of things too much sometimes |
Posted By: Dr4Wazo
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 22:47
|
IMO: no we would have to include Priest, Sabbath and compagny... great bands... not prog... ------------- 
"Mëem Otsilennhetëe Dros Sun Surra Steuhn Do Nansei" |
Posted By: Forgotten Son
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 23:25
I don't see why. Those bands aren't nearly as proggy as Maiden. The only other similar band that I feel should be added are Metallica. |
Posted By: floydisgod
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 23:45
You can say exactly the same thing about Queensryche and Iron Maiden. ------------- 
|
Posted By: BiGi
Date Posted: September 01 2006 at 05:07
|
I know the topic has been discussed a trillion times, but my advice remains:
YES! They should be included! I don't see many differences with bands like Queensryche and the like, and they have been a great source of inspiration to plenty of progmetal bands who have sprung out from the nineties on (one name for all: Dream Theater) Same considerations apply to Metallica: where's the big difference between them and, say, Tool? And they use plenty of complex time signatures... Give these songs a try and you'll tell me: IRON MAIDEN
METALLICA:
------------- A flower? 
|
Posted By: Joren
Date Posted: September 01 2006 at 06:43
Sorry, I'm not very familiar with Queensr˙che. |
Posted By: Joren
Date Posted: September 01 2006 at 06:46
 Actually, I'd be surprised to find more than a few similarities between Metallica and Tool. Probably all metal bands after Metallica are influenced by them to some extent, but Tool and Metallica are almost worlds apart, if you ask me. |
Posted By: Trickster F.
Date Posted: September 01 2006 at 06:49
|
Mercyful Fate are in no way Prog Metal, and the fact whether or not they are Prog-Related is a different question, and perhaps one difficult to answer. Even their most famous "progressive" albums Mellisa and Don't Break The Oath have quite intricate, unorthodox moments, that would later the extreme music scenes, however, are still full of quite basic Speed Metal with satanic lyrics. I also voted against their inclusion to the site, however, that had more to do with being in a team(the other two people also rejected the band, and I had mixed thoughts), rather than being biased or even having a strict opinion on their inclusion. I think MF are even more progressive than Iron Maiden and Metallica, but come on, we haven't even got My Dying Bride and Emperor as Prog-Related, and people still keep asking us to add bands with much lesser prog ingredients! ------------- sig |
Posted By: Joren
Date Posted: September 01 2006 at 06:51
Proto-Prog-Metal?  |
Posted By: Trickster F.
Date Posted: September 01 2006 at 07:07
I don't like the category "Proto-Prog-Metal", speaking honestly. Many bands who are considered that, surely influenced a great variety of metal genres, prog-metal included, but no matter how their influence is undeniable and can not be overlooked, they are very often only remotely close to the sound of Prog. Complexity, unusual time signatures, long songs, keyboards and above average technique are all traits often associated with prog, but each one separately and often even few at once doeth not a prog band maketh. ------------- sig |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: September 01 2006 at 07:07
|
^ I don't like the term "Proto" in connection with genres ... I mean, albums should have a genre they belong to. If they are also precursors to other genres that's interesting ... but IMO not as important as the actual genre. BTW: "Proto-Prog-Metal" isd ambiguous anyway - could mean "prog, but proto-metal" or "metal, but proto-prog" or "proto-prog, proto-metal".  Why can't we simply call those "progressive" Mercyful Fate albums "Complex Aggressive Metal"? ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
|
Posted By: Trickster F.
Date Posted: September 01 2006 at 07:10
Because ProgArchives isn't Progtology/Ratingfreak and we have to be much more concrete and straight-forward with categories, formalities and limitations?
Calling something "Classic First Wave Complex Aggressive Metal, 50% Atmospheric, 20% Black Metal" or something like that works on your website, but sadly it does not here. ------------- sig |
Posted By: toolis
Date Posted: September 01 2006 at 07:15
|
i don't see any progginess in any Iron Maiden track from their debut to Virtual XI... yes, Harris loves art rock and bands like Wishbone Ash and Camel but that's it... i don't see why a former NWOBHM band that serves heavy metal for almost 30 years now with few prog moments in a huge discography should be considered even prog related? and what would be the benefit of that, anyway? |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: September 01 2006 at 07:15
^ Agreed. Of course my suggestion implies that Mercyful Fate are not accepted in the archives.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
|
Posted By: Joren
Date Posted: September 01 2006 at 08:08
I should have said Proto-Progmetal then (without the second dash, to avoid that problem). But of course the real genre they belong to is "Experimental Agressive Proto-Death Proto-Thrash Complex Satanic Proto-Black Facepaint Proto-Progmetal". |
Posted By: Joren
Date Posted: September 01 2006 at 08:10
O well, they just sound proggy to me... but what do I know, I'm not a PMS. We'll see... maybe they'll get added, and maybe not. But there's no stopping them for sure if Iron Maiden and Metallica are included. Any case, I'll live. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: September 01 2006 at 08:10
|
^ Break it down do individual albums and it becomes much more simple and obvious.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
|
Posted By: lastdodobird
Date Posted: September 02 2006 at 01:45
Seventh Son of a Seventh Son was already progressive. |
Posted By: Trickster F.
Date Posted: September 02 2006 at 02:30
You mean you are not a Pre-Menstrual Stress? ------------- sig |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: September 02 2006 at 02:52
|
I believe they are more than just Prog Related, aSeventh Son of a Seventh Son is far enough to include them, for God's sake, The Beatles never did any pure Prog but they were influential, Iron Maide is probably the most influential band for Prog Metal.
If it wasonly for Ryme of the Ancient Mariner, they woud deserve to be here, but they also have a whole bunch of Prog tracks.
But I'm not a Prog Metal Team Member neither i have premenstrual syndrome.
Iván ------------- 
|
Posted By: lastdodobird
Date Posted: September 02 2006 at 07:10
| The Beatles are included, Queen is included, but no Iron Maiden. Wow. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: September 02 2006 at 07:15
Wow, that doesn't sound like the Ivan I once knew. What happened to you? ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
|
Posted By: toolis
Date Posted: September 02 2006 at 07:25
|
Beatles and Queen are included and that may give some right to including Iron Maiden but given that i disagree with many of the proto-prog / prog related stuff in the PA, i would have to say that...i don't give a damn whether Maiden or not are included... to me, they never had any serious relation to prog, even though i love them... |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: September 02 2006 at 07:31
|
I listened to Seventh Son again yesterday more closely and I'm sorry to say that it's definitely not a prog album IMO - not even a prog related album. Even the more progressive songs have extended non-prog parts, and these songs are a minority - the album is dominated by blatantly non-prog songs.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
|
Posted By: toolis
Date Posted: September 02 2006 at 07:37
|
do you, guys, really believe that Maiden are prog or do you just want to see your fav teen band in the PA so that you can review their LPs, give them all 5 stars and see them climb up the top100? |
Posted By: Joren
Date Posted: September 02 2006 at 10:52
Correct. And I'm not a Prog Metal Specialist either. |
Posted By: Joren
Date Posted: September 03 2006 at 11:55
|
Hmm interesting. When a few days ago I heard a few songs off "A Matter Of Life And Death" I was bored, and decided to stop listening. But now I just finished listening to "Dance Of Death", which I never thought was great (I always preferred Brave New World) - but now I like it for the first time. Moreover, it has some proggy moments... I think I'll give "A Matter Of Life And Death" another try one of these days. |
Posted By: BiGi
Date Posted: September 04 2006 at 07:40
Well, I thik it's the overall sonority...in my opinion they sound rather alike... To be honest, however, I have to say that Metallica are definitely more varied as regards song composition... ------------- A flower?
|
Posted By: BiGi
Date Posted: September 04 2006 at 07:42
Friends...try the tracklist I published some post ago... ------------- A flower?
|
Posted By: Joren
Date Posted: September 04 2006 at 12:55
Iron Maiden was once my favourite band and I have all their studio albums (except the newest one), so I'd say I know them pretty well. I also admitted they have a bit of a prog flavour sometimes. |
Posted By: Eetu Pellonpaa
Date Posted: September 04 2006 at 15:09
|
I think that many progressive elements live in the metal scene, but it's still not wise to claim 'em prog. Many elements of Brittish society may still live in America, but you can't claim Florida as a part of England from that basis. Why not go ask the bands them selves, are you prog or not in their opinion? DREAM THEATER have flagged themselves that they want to be seen as a part of prog movement. But though many bands have these tendencies, one can't put 'em in the fence where they don't want to be.
Instead of a result of a technical musical analysis, prog is (to me) a part of a scene, that's improvisational, jazzy and artistic European rock of late 60's and early 70's. The influences of this trend lives in the music of many contemporary artists, but the prog flag should raise only to detect these influences, but not to label them instantly as a part of the genre. "Don't fence 'em in!"
Agreed! (a rare insight  ) Though I don't listen to them often I have only these two first albums, as they don't have that power metal feeling on 'em, which I personally don't like. |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: September 04 2006 at 15:31
I find such remarks offensive, both on my own behalf and on that of the people who are supporting IM's induction into PA. I am a Rush fan, but if you look at my reviews, I gave their albums 3 stars more often than 5 - and I object to your using the expression "fav teen band". No one is talking about Back Street Boys or the Spice Girls here, and I don't see any of the people who have been posting in this thread wanting IM in PA in order to see their albums climb up the Top 100. I sure couldn't care less. As to believing IM are prog, I think you've been a member of PA long enough to see that the definition is hazy to say the least, and that most people won't agree on what constitutes 'prog'. So, there are people who consider Maiden prog, others who don't - as there are those who think 'Close to the Edge' is overrated, and those who consider it a masterpiece. In any case, I think you (and anybody else) can and should express the same concepts in a way that doesn't sound as unpleasant as the one you used above. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: September 05 2006 at 02:27
Yes, two or three songs from that album have some proggy moments. That makes the album ... veeery slightly prog-related.  ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
|
Posted By: PROGMAN
Date Posted: September 05 2006 at 13:47
|
This has been discussed so many times, and not sure how much Prog they have in their music, good band, but as some say they have their moments, so don't know 100%
------------- CYMRU AM BYTH 
|
Posted By: Eetu Pellonpaa
Date Posted: September 05 2006 at 15:04
Included example bands you mentioned are neither welcomed here by everyone. Try to close your eyes, can't make a databvase this big to please everyone with every detail!
|
Posted By: Abstrakt
Date Posted: September 05 2006 at 16:04
Good Point!
|
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: September 06 2006 at 02:41
That is not a reason to include bands - just because one band is here, that doesn't give automatic rights to another - I would have thought that was obvious. Anyway, The Beatles and Queen sound nothing like Iron Maiden. ------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: September 06 2006 at 02:43
I don't think that "Ryme..." is particularly proggy - and both Judas Priest and Metallica are at least equally influential on Prog Metal. Both bands also have at least as many Prog tracks as Iron Maiden - Metallica more so. ------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: September 06 2006 at 03:43
|
Not prog, but progressive. I really think that particular in this case (Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Metallica, Megadeth) this distinction is useful ... "prog" denotes a genre, while "progressive" is merely an attribute which stands for "innovative, a little bit ahead of their time, genre-expanding". So while Iron Maiden never sounded like Dream Theater (prog), they were definitely progressive on some albums. The pity is that on every album they also have 100% mainstream songs that are neither prog nor progressive ...
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
|
Posted By: toolis
Date Posted: September 06 2006 at 06:34
we mustn't confuse tech metal with prog metal... My Dying Bride had long tracks cause they are a doom metal band not proggy at all... bands like Sepultura or Coroner and Autopsy are/were tech thrash/death, not prog metal... ------------- -music is like pornography... sometimes amateurs turn us on, even more... -sometimes you are the pigeon and sometimes you are the statue... |
Posted By: toolis
Date Posted: September 06 2006 at 06:39
i didn't mean to offend anyone, i thought you would receive it as a joke, my apologies if i didn't make clear that i wasn't serious... ------------- -music is like pornography... sometimes amateurs turn us on, even more... -sometimes you are the pigeon and sometimes you are the statue... |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: September 06 2006 at 06:56
|
OK, apology accepted... However, next time you'd better use emoticons if you want to make your meaning clearer! They've been invented for such purposes, as written language can't convey the same meanings as spoken language does, and as such it can lead to misunderstandings.
|
Posted By: Eetu Pellonpaa
Date Posted: September 06 2006 at 08:32
I agree your categorizations, and I'm sure you know about the metal stuff more than me, but the features mentioned here (long tracks, unconventional rhtyhms) are still the same to which many people point when claiming some bands as progressive, won't you agree?
I think it's about violently pushing the barriers of theoretical fences, which create territories for conceptual entities. "This is PROG!" One could also claim that all jazz influenced prog rock which are here labelled as jazz rock / fusion, is not prog at all, but they are jazz!
|
Posted By: Joren
Date Posted: September 06 2006 at 09:30
Good point. Al di Meola for instance is more jazz than he is prog. And there are much more of these artists in PA. |
Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: September 06 2006 at 13:31
|
I was exposed to Iron Maiden in my youth. They sounded great, but I was getting into Genesis at the time. I very easily could have gone the Metal route.
Because of the renewed interest, I decided to check them out again. I just picked up "The Number of the Beast," "Powerslave," and "Seventh Son of a Seventh Son." "Beast" is very good metal, but only gets proggy on the last two tracks. "Poweslave" is very much in the realm of prog. "Seventh Son" is Prog. It seems that like many bands here, they evolved into prog. I have had this assessment confirmed by other fans.This is Prog Metal, and (IMO) better than any of the big bands on this site. The compositions are very strong. Remember, this is coming from an old man too. ------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: September 06 2006 at 13:35
HT, my dearest fellow horseman -  (and you're not old at all - what would that make me then?)BTW, your new sig is fantastic, and I endorse that 100%...  Anyway, though we may be the Four (or five?) Horsemen, I'm afraid we're very much flogging the proverbial dead horse in this particular case... |
Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: September 06 2006 at 13:41
Ah, Raffaella, you are too sweet. 
The old man thing was in response to an earlier comment. It may never happen, but perhaps some more people will check out this quality metal band. ------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: Joren
Date Posted: September 06 2006 at 13:43
Well, you more or less convinced me. I would no longer mind seeing Iron Maiden in Prog Related. |
Posted By: Joren
Date Posted: September 06 2006 at 13:44
Err... I think pretty much EVERYONE knows Iron Maiden. |
Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: September 06 2006 at 21:47
I wouldn't be so sure about that. They aren't exactly on top anymore. I'm sure there are fans of the modern bands who have never heard an Iron Maiden album. ------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: Lex C
Date Posted: September 06 2006 at 23:20
| Iron Maiden progressed metal, not music alltogether. So while they have proggy undertones, concept albums and even a few prog songs, they are not a prog band. They helped and still do help metal as one of the godfathers of the genre, nonetheless metal was around before them. |
Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: September 07 2006 at 00:19
I was unsure about it as well. Give "Powerslave" and "Seventh Son" another listen. ------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: September 07 2006 at 03:40
Taking that description, then we should be considering all genres of electronica, like Trance, Jungle, Drum and Bass and all the recent derivatives with silly names. We should also be seriously thinking about Punk - how violently were the barriers pushed by that music? Then there's rap, techno, chill-out, and all the other popular forms in which barriers have been pushed if not broken. In short, that reasoning by itself is insufficient. And I have to say that reasoning is in short supply in this thread... ------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: Joren
Date Posted: September 07 2006 at 05:54
http://www.last.fm/charts/music/artist/ - http://www.last.fm/charts/music/artist/ they are higher on the list than even R.E.M., Guns N' Roses, Rammstein, AC/DC and Korn. I really think Iron Maiden is still the prototypical metal band and therefore a must-hear for rock/metal fans (Metallica as well, of course). |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: September 07 2006 at 06:05
So, why do you bother to post here, if we are all unreasoning brutes? Do you realise that this is not a very complimentary remark, or is it just that you don't care?  |
Posted By: Lex C
Date Posted: September 07 2006 at 06:58
| I have Powerslave, not 7th Sun yet, yeah, that album has prog like things, but it is not a prog or progressive album. |
Posted By: toolis
Date Posted: September 08 2006 at 02:39
true, i agree that jazz can't be prog as we mean it and Al Di Meola isn't prog and i don't agree with his being in the PA... i'm on board with this...and even if some people tend to label any band that has long tracks or super tech music, "prog", i don't care.. to me, they'll never be... so, i guess we are pointing out the same thing, guys... ------------- -music is like pornography... sometimes amateurs turn us on, even more... -sometimes you are the pigeon and sometimes you are the statue... |