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Topic ClosedIs the Middle East going to war?
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NetsNJFan View Drop Down
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Points: 3047 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2006 at 11:52
Originally posted by NetsNJFan NetsNJFan wrote:

Originally posted by dralan dralan wrote:

Originally posted by NetsNJFan NetsNJFan wrote:

I've started to feel that the only way it will end is with genocide, by either side
 
 Yes sadly it seems some people will stop at nothing less than a complete annihilation of Israel. We here in America will never completely understand this centuries old conflict, no matter how many books we read or how many years of college we have.
 
that, coupled with Israel, possibly 20-30 years down the line still mired in Intifada just snapping, another possible scenario.
 
Not to mention Iran saying the sacrifice of the Palestinians would be worth it to destroy Israel, in a nuclear attack, since both partis would be destoryed.
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Points: 8238 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2006 at 11:55
If they haven't solved this since the breakup of the Garden of Eden I have doubts that they will figure out a compromise any time soon.  What I fear is that someday one of the Arab countries will try to make good on their threat to drive the Israelis into the Mediterranean and the nukes will start flying.  A lot of us in the US are glad there's an ocean between us and the middle east.  Prayer for peace is all we've got.
"Literature is well enough, as a time-passer, and for the improvement and general elevation and purification of mankind, but it has no practical value" - Mark Twain
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Points: 12625 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2006 at 12:07
Originally posted by Chicapah Chicapah wrote:

A lot of us in the US are glad there's an ocean between us and the middle east. 


As we all have seen, an ocean is not what stops terrorists from reaching the USA. Nor will it stop other mal-intent people and countries to try and hurt the USA.
We try to deal with them here, but it is impossible.
I'll be glad as well when August 6th arrives and I'll be out of here (if I don't get summoned before that).

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Points: 8238 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2006 at 12:12
First, let me say that I hope you stay safe.
Secondly, I was referring to the nukes.  Just don't want them next door.
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Points: 89372 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2006 at 12:19
I wish you well too Assaf, I hope you are able to leave on August 6 (my birthday as it happens) and that you'll be able to escape all this.

War is so needless and I feel sad even thinking about it all.
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Points: 16130 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2006 at 15:14
Originally posted by Chicapah Chicapah wrote:

If they haven't solved this since the breakup of the Garden of Eden I have doubts that they will figure out a compromise any time soon.  What I fear is that someday one of the Arab countries will try to make good on their threat to drive the Israelis into the Mediterranean and the nukes will start flying.  A lot of us in the US are glad there's an ocean between us and the middle east.  Prayer for peace is all we've got.


So far, it's only Israel that has nukes.

Well, thats the belief, and even Israel wont confirm this. If Syria and Iran already have nukes,I would imagine the CIA and the Mossad will already know. Syria already has chemical weapons.

One fear is that amid all the hardware Russia have so generously flogged to Iran over the years, are a few nukes. Assuming Israel is the sole nuclear power in the ME, then at least this couldn't escalate into a two way nuclear exchange. But, the use of these weapons by anyone is completly abhorant.
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Points: 3047 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2006 at 15:39
^ Agree with everything Blacksword just said.  The amount of unaccounted for nuclear material from the Fmr. USSR is truly terrifying.
 
Below if a scary update for both Israeli cities and the prospect of Iranian involvement:
 
Quote
Israel: New Hezbollah rockets can reach Tel Aviv and Be'er Sheva
By Haaretz Staff

Israel believes Hezbollah has missiles that can hit most of Israel, and which could even strike Be'er Sheva under optimum conditions.

Iran supplied Hezbollah with solid-fuel, Zelzal-2 missiles with a 200-km range, but these are not very accurate, since they do not have a self-guidance system.

The Zelzal-2 missiles, intended to strike broad targets such as communities and cities, are equipped with explosive warheads weighing up to 600 kilograms. The missiles are a later version of the Zelzal-1 missiles, which Iran first displayed in September 2005 at a military parade in Tehran, together with six Shihab-3 missiles.

Hezbollah's original Katyusha rockets had a range of 12 kilometers to 22 kilometers. At a later stage, it obtained Iranian Fajar-3 and Fajar-5 rockets, with a range of 45 kilometers and 75 kilometers, respectively. Hezbollah did not use these rockets until the current conflict.

The organization also has Syrian-made 22-millimeter rockets with a range of several dozen kilometers.

The rocket that hit Haifa on Thursday did not come as a complete surprise: the Israel Defense Forces knew Hezbollah had rockets with a range that would reach Haifa, but were surprised that the organization opted to use them.

Israel first learned that Hezbollah had rockets capable of reaching the outskirts of Haifa three months before the IDF pullout from Lebanon in May 2000.

The head of Military Intelligence reported two years ago that Hezbollah has 13,000 rockets, most with a 25-kilometer range, about 500 with a range of 45 kilometers to 75 kilometers, and a few dozen with a 115-kilometer range. The rockets were stored in several strategic places in the Beka'a Valley, and some were deployed along the Israeli border.

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Points: 9226 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 15 2006 at 08:15
Just watched the bombings in Libanon... it's so sad people... What is the reason this time?
I think some Israeli soldiers were kidnapped?
Is that right?
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Points: 16130 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 15 2006 at 12:11
^ Thats part of the official line. That and the recent Hamas rocket attacks on Israel. I'm still convinced the Israeli agenda is broader than we're being told. True, their Arab neighbours would like nothing more to than to see the Jewish state destroyed, but my hunch is that Israel is seeking to destroy all its enemies now, before they get the means to do it to them.

Hopefully I'm wrong, and diplomacy will prevail, but to be honest after all these years of war, diplomacy is likey to be nothnig more than a stay of execution for one side or the other.
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Points: 16130 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 15 2006 at 12:16
Originally posted by NetsNJFan NetsNJFan wrote:

^ Agree with everything Blacksword just said.  The amount of unaccounted for nuclear material from the Fmr. USSR is truly terrifying.
 

Below if a scary update for both Israeli cities and the prospect of Iranian involvement:

 

Quote
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0>
<T>
<TR>
<TD =t18B vAlign=top colSpan=2>Israel: New Hezbollah rockets can reach Tel Aviv and Be'er Sheva</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top colSpan=2>[IMG]height=3 src="http://haaretz.com/hasen/images/0.gif" width=10></TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD =t11B vAlign=top colSpan=2>By Haaretz Staff</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top colSpan=2>[IMG]height=5 src="http://haaretz.com/hasen/images/0.gif" width=10></TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD colSpan=3>
<P lang=en><SPAN =t13>Israel believes Hezbollah has missiles that can hit most of Israel, and which could even strike Be'er Sheva under optimum conditions. Iran supplied Hezbollah with solid-fuel, Zelzal-2 missiles with a 200-km range, but these are not very accurate, since they do not have a self-guidance system. </SPAN>

</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD colSpan=3>[IMG]height=10 src="http://haaretz.com/hasen/images/0.gif" width=1></TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD colSpan=2>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 align=right>
<T>
<TR>
<TD rowSpan=2>[IMG]height=10 src="http://haaretz.com/hasen/images/0.gif" width=3></TD>
<TD =t9></TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD align=right></TD></TR></T></TABLE>
<P lang=en dir=ltr><SPAN =t13>The Zelzal-2 missiles, intended to strike broad targets such as communities and cities, are equipped with explosive warheads weighing up to 600 kilograms. The missiles are a later version of the Zelzal-1 missiles, which Iran first displayed in September 2005 at a military parade in Tehran, together with six Shihab-3 missiles. Hezbollah's original Katyusha rockets had a range of 12 kilometers to 22 kilometers. At a later stage, it obtained Iranian Fajar-3 and Fajar-5 rockets, with a range of 45 kilometers and 75 kilometers, respectively. Hezbollah did not use these rockets until the current conflict. The organization also has Syrian-made 22-millimeter rockets with a range of several dozen kilometers. The rocket that hit Haifa on Thursday did not come as a complete surprise: the Israel Defense Forces knew Hezbollah had rockets with a range that would reach Haifa, but were surprised that the organization opted to use them. Israel first learned that Hezbollah had rockets capable of reaching the outskirts of Haifa three months before the IDF pullout from Lebanon in May 2000. The head of Military Intelligence reported two years ago that Hezbollah has 13,000 rockets, most with a 25-kilometer range, about 500 with a range of 45 kilometers to 75 kilometers, and a few dozen with a 115-kilometer range. The rockets were stored in several strategic places in the Beka'a Valley, and some were deployed along the Israeli border. </SPAN>

</TD></TR></T></TABLE>


Perhaps even more worrying is the stockpile of Russian 'Sunburn' missiles, rumoured to have been sold to Iran about 5 years ago. These advanced cruise missiles could hit Tel Aviv in under three minutes - launched from Iran - and are undetectable by radar. Their payload is bigger than anything so far fired at Israel, and they are pin point accurate.

The Russians flogged a load of these to the Chinese too (that is official as far as I know)The Chinese are believed to have fited theirs with nuclear warheads.
    
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Points: 16130 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 15 2006 at 19:57
Britsh warships head for Lebanon.

No evacuation order has been given forBrits in Lebanon, as yet. The two British navy vessels heading for Lebanon are said to be going there incase an evacuation is ordered.
    

Edited by Blacksword - July 15 2006 at 19:58
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Points: 184 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 15 2006 at 20:17
For too long the middle east has ben left to do it's own thing, usually bombing, missiles and suicide bombings. I have no time for cowards who blow themselves and  innocent people up.....the arabs seem to find a speciality in this. All in the name of religion they will tell you...bulllsh*t, war is all about land, who has it and who wants it. The Israelis would love to eradicate the Palestinains, and vice versa, but at least the Israelis are worthwhile and offer more to the world than do the Palestinians.
 
Just think, if Nazi Germany hadn't decided on a process of extermination of the Jews, the middle east crisi would never have happened. The Jews have been thrown from one disaster to another, and none of their own making.
 
I fear that the only way to solve this problem , is i fthe Israelis go for  a full pre-emptive strike and destroy the Palestinians, or the mad Iranians try and nuke them......i know who'd i want to win..................Israel.
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Points: 16130 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2006 at 10:37
Originally posted by spacecraft spacecraft wrote:

For too long the middle east has ben left to do it's own thing, usually bombing, missiles and suicide bombings. I have no time for cowards who blow themselves and  innocent people up.....the arabs seem to find a speciality in this. All in the name of religion they will tell you...bulllsh*t, war is all about land, who has it and who wants it. The Israelis would love to eradicate the Palestinains, and vice versa, but at least the Israelis are worthwhile and offer more to the world than do the Palestinians.
 

Just think, if Nazi Germany hadn't decided on a process of extermination of the Jews, the middle east crisi would never have happened. The Jews have been thrown from one disaster to another, and none of their own making.

 

I fear that the only way to solve this problem , is i fthe Israelis go for  a full pre-emptive strike and destroy the Palestinians, or the mad Iranians try and nuke them......i know who'd i want to win..................Israel.

    
With respect, that all a bit simplistic.

Firstly, Israel was not established as a result of the holocaust. The decision to set a up a Jewish homeland in Palestine was made almost 40 years before WWII, in Britain. WWII may have been a catalyst, but it would have happened eventually anyway.

Sadly, it looks as though this conflict may draw in Iran and/or Syria eventually. The stakes are very high, and although total annhilation of Isreals enemies may seem like the ultimate solution, the consequences could be dire for all of us. It cant have escaped anyones attention that neither Russia or China are not on the same page as the rest of the UN Security council. This conflict will have been in the planning for some years, as Russia and China's potential response will have been too.

I guess if it ever came down to it; the red lights flashing, and the rockets flying, I would know what side my Bagel is buttered too. If the time came to pick a side, pick up a rifle and get stuck in, you'd have to ask yourself; Liberal democracy, or Islamic theocracy?? mmm, I wonder which would be better for us all... Still, lets hope it doesn't come to that. I remain very critical of Israels actions.

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Points: 16130 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2006 at 11:10
The Israelis are now saying, the rocket that struck Haifa, was actually not a rocket, but a missile, of Iranian design, likely to have been fired by the Iranian revolutionary guard, operating in Southern Lebanon.
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Points: 2632 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2006 at 12:58
Although nothing excuses violence, aggression, oppression, etc. on either side, I could not help but give serious thought to something one of the Israeli military officials said.  Comparing the way each side sees the conflict, he said:
 
"Every Arab child who dies as the result of an Israeli missile is a tragedy.  However, every Israeli child who dies as the result of an Arab missile is a victory."
 
Sadly, there does seem to be some truth in this.
 
Peace.
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Points: 11979 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2006 at 13:02
Some kind of negotiated stand-off is needed quickly or this will be war.
Iran is already under-pressure over its nuclear capability and the constant "threat" of the USA taking action.A strike against Israel is surely not out of the question...
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Points: 3047 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2006 at 20:29
Originally posted by maani maani wrote:

Although nothing excuses violence, aggression, oppression, etc. on either side, I could not help but give serious thought to something one of the Israeli military officials said.  Comparing the way each side sees the conflict, he said:
 
"Every Arab child who dies as the result of an Israeli missile is a tragedy.  However, every Israeli child who dies as the result of an Arab missile is a victory."
 
Sadly, there does seem to be some truth in this.
 
Peace.
 
Golda Meir:  "We will have peace with them [the Arabs] when they love their children more than they hate us."
 
Looking at parades of 3 and 4 year olds in Hamas/Hizbullah garb with toy guns and bomb belts, this day seems long off Cry
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Points: 16130 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2006 at 02:49
Originally posted by Tony R Tony R wrote:

Some kind of negotiated stand-off is needed quickly or this will be war.
Iran is already under-pressure over its nuclear capability and the constant "threat" of the USA taking action.A strike against Israel is surely not out of the question...


Iran could be drawn on sooner than we think. The Israelis are blaming Iran and Syria directly for the Hezbollah attacks, as they believe the rockets/missiles are being supplied by them, which they probably are.

Israel are itching for an excuse to attack Iran/Syria as much as those countries would love to flatten Israel. It's strange how different news sources report things differently. FOX News in the US, reported that the missile that struck Haifa a few days back, was Iranian in design, and launched by Iranians operating in South Lebanon. The BBC did not make the Iranian claim.
    
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Points: 3047 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2006 at 10:51
Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

Originally posted by Tony R Tony R wrote:

Some kind of negotiated stand-off is needed quickly or this will be war.
Iran is already under-pressure over its nuclear capability and the constant "threat" of the USA taking action.A strike against Israel is surely not out of the question...


Iran could be drawn on sooner than we think. The Israelis are blaming Iran and Syria directly for the Hezbollah attacks, as they believe the rockets/missiles are being supplied by them, which they probably are.

Israel are itching for an excuse to attack Iran/Syria as much as those countries would love to flatten Israel. It's strange how different news sources report things differently. FOX News in the US, reported that the missile that struck Haifa a few days back, was Iranian in design, and launched by Iranians operating in South Lebanon. The BBC did not make the Iranian claim.
    
 
Haha very true.  Fox News is itching for a war.  Bill OReilly was really pushing the Israeli UN Ambassador "So why haven't you declared war on Iran yet!?!?!"......blowhard
 
The best exchange from that interview, Israelis are the epitome of bluntness:

O'Reilly:  What do you say to the world leaders like the UN and the EU and Russia who say Israel is using disproportionate force?
 
Dan Gillerman:  You're god-damn right we are using disproportionate force!
 
But yea, Fox News keeps pushing the Iran-Syria connection.  Everyone knows Hizbullah is Irans lapdog, but neither Iran nor Israel want this to spiral.
 
 
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Points: 89372 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2006 at 14:25
Apologies to bring this thread down a bit, but...



Now things may continue on as they were.
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