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Prog-man 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 22 2006
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 350
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 Posted: June 25 2006 at 10:52 |
W&W... GREAT ALBUM!
NOT THE BEST OF THE COLLINS ERA (SECONDS OUT, W&W & ATOTT WERE MORE PROGRESSSIVE).
BUT ONE OF THEM, ALONG GENESIS, CAS, W&W & THREE SIDES LIVE (REALLY GOOD ALBUMS.)
IT HAS A ATMOSPHERE SUCH SIMILAR TO W&W -MELANCHOLIC AND VERY BRITISH-, IN SPITE OF FACT OF BEING MORE SHORT AND SIMPLE TRACKS, FOR INFLUENCE OF THE PUNK IN THE WHOLE MUSIC OF THAT MOMENT.  (I THINK THAT CAS HAS A SIMILAR ATMOSPHERA LIKE THOSE...)
AND THE ALBUM HAS A GOOD GUITAR WORK OF MR. RUTHERFORD ON ELECTRIC LEAD GUITARS, PROBABLY THE BEST OF HIM.
IT IS REALLY COOL, I LIKE SO MUCH THE MOST "PROGGIE" SONGS (DOWN AND OUT, BURNING ROPE, DEEP INTO THE MOTHER LODE, FOR EXAMPLE), AND THE BALLADS (LIKE UNDERTOW, MANY TO MANY, SNOWBOUND...)
FOLLOW YOU, FOLLOW ME IS NOT MY CUP OF TEA  , BUT I CAN LISTEN TO IT  (SOME TIMES...). AND WITHOUT THIS SONG, MIKE'S "DIGITAL GUITAR CUTS" HAD NEVER EXISTED , AND -IN CONSEQUENCE- MAYBE MIKE & THE MECHANICS HAD NOT BEEN FORMED EITHER...
Edited by Prog-man - June 25 2006 at 10:58
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Arriving somewhere but not here
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
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Posted: June 25 2006 at 11:16 |
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ATTWT is one of those albums that really divides Genesis fans. As far as I'm concerned it's a true prog effort, and considering the loss of Steve Hackett, must have been difficult to put together.
Mike Rutherford did once say that, after Steve leaving, they all made a concerted effort to prove themselves as individual writers. If you look at the credits for that album you'll see that Tony Banks wrote four songs on his own: Undertow, Burning Rope, Many too Many and The Lady Lies. Rutherford wrote Snowbound, Deep in the Motherlode and Say it's alright Joe. The remaining songs were group efforts. Rutherford said it was an insecure time, but by the time they recorded Duke they were back to writing virtually all material as a group. An approach they favoured from then on.
I think ATTWT is a brilliant album, which allowed Rutherford in particular to prove himself, both as writer and guitarist. It was an important period in their history, but for me it was a tragedy what happened to them after 'Duke'
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Losendos
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 03 2005
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 571
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Posted: June 25 2006 at 23:03 |
I have always had mixed feelings about this album . By late 78 prog was getting tired with the public so they clearly tried to make an album that was non prog ( No mystical lyrics, no solos , no long pieces, no real atmospherics, no multi layered sounds,no long tracks , little creativity and definetly not a concept album). It was a big disappointment at the time. Over the years I've softened somewhat about it and come to recognise the high standard of songwriting.
If you combine the strong parts of ATTW3 with the good points of Hackett's spectral mornings you would have a true masterpiece.One album is strong exactly where the other is weak. Thus it was a great tragedy that Hackett left
Overall I prefer Duke which I think was more of an attempt to bring back prog.
During the second wind that arrived for prog in 1983 ( Crises, Eye in the Sky , 90125 , the rise of Marillion) Genesis also had something of an attempt at prog with the Genesis (shapes album) .
But I agree with RichardH about Abacab which is lame and the writer who said they had completely given up on Invisible Touch both of which I think it is best to avoid.
On the Genesis website Tony Banks says that ATTW3 is for him personally the least satisfying of all their albums and Phil Collins says that it is only good in bits and pieces witha couple of good tracks. So the feelings of disappointment that some of the fans have might be shared with the band members.
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How wonderful to be so profound
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mrgd
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 02 2005
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 822
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Posted: June 26 2006 at 01:01 |
CHICAPAH and I were obviously doing the same thing at about the same time at either ends of the globe ie. trying to get into ATTW3 at the time of it's release. I had been to the UK and had returned home after seeing GENESIS live in London in 77 after the release of W&W. It was one of the best concerts I have seen and I had high expectations notwithstanding the obvious.
While my disappointment was also palpable I have managed to be more objective about it. The disappointment was also due to the inevitable consequences of the part disintegration of the band as well as impressions of this new release.
Where I differ with CHICAPAH is that I, like many others, don't think it's bad. Many other contributors have well highlighted why it is not a bad album at all. Many of us viewed it [and judged it] in the context of what had preceded it .What else were we to do but the winds of change were picking up their intensity, not only with GENESIS, but in progressive rock in general and, like so many others, I didn't much like what I was hearing or seeing. But I lent the album to a mate who was still very new to GENESIS and vice-versa back then and he loved it and, as far as I know, still does. And I think that's the whole point here .Taken on it's own, it's a very good album.
We can't afford to be too blinkered in our views now IMO. Those of us who haven't really listened to the album for a long time [and I mean REALLY listened to it] could do well to re-appraise things as far ATTW3 is concerned .[How far you want to take it though with subsequent releases is entirely up to each and every one of you including ,of course,whether you think my views are also excrement-like]!
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Looking still the same after all these years...
mrgd
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Intruder
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 13 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 2165
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Posted: June 26 2006 at 02:06 |
That "progression" of Genesis from prog to pop took a big step with ATTW3....the songs are shorter, sharper and more succint. Doesn't make it better album for me...I've always liked my Genesis longer, dreamier and a bit more winding. Still, a solid three star album that points toward the next (and I think much better) Duke.
Though Banks may have said it's their least satisfying album, some of his personal fave Genesis work comes from this LP....he even revisited ...Undertow on his first solo album.
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I like to feel the suspense when you're certain you know I am there.....
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 28029
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Posted: June 26 2006 at 02:09 |
 Blacksword wrote:
richardh wrote:
Its an album I've liked for a long time.Banks,Rutherford and Collins had plenty to prove after the departure of Hackett.It was just after punk was changing the face of the musical landscape.It really could have gone tits up but the remaining G Boys come out swinging for me.Ultra tight playing with a production that highlights the patented Genesis wall of sound and most importantly some cracking songs.A great mixture of 'commercial' radio friendly songs and short classic epics this album works beautifully.Its the last Genesis album I can happily listen to in its entirety.Duke showed a few too many cracks and the dam burst when they made the excrement of Abacab. |
This echoes my feelings about this album.
This was the first Genesis album I heard in its entirity, on a tape cassette, hired from the library. It's a great album, full of strong melodies and memorable songs. It's the perfect bridge between 'WAW' and 'Duke'
I have to disagree about Duke, though. I think it's their last excelent album! 
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Duke is something of a curiosity as it contains prog and pop material as well as 'filler'.The prog stuff like Dukes Travels is superb but then there are some very boring ballads that do nothing for me at all.
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
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Posted: June 26 2006 at 05:19 |
richardh wrote:
Blacksword wrote:
richardh wrote:
Its an album I've liked for a long time.Banks,Rutherford and Collins had plenty to prove after the departure of Hackett.It was just after punk was changing the face of the musical landscape.It really could have gone tits up but the remaining G Boys come out swinging for me.Ultra tight playing with a production that highlights the patented Genesis wall of sound and most importantly some cracking songs.A great mixture of 'commercial' radio friendly songs and short classic epics this album works beautifully.Its the last Genesis album I can happily listen to in its entirety.Duke showed a few too many cracks and the dam burst when they made the excrement of Abacab. |
This echoes my feelings about this album. This was the first Genesis album I heard in its entirity, on a tape cassette, hired from the library. It's a great album, full of strong melodies and memorable songs. It's the perfect bridge between 'WAW' and 'Duke' I have to disagree about Duke, though. I think it's their last excelent album! [IMG]smileys/smiley17.gif" align=middle> |
Duke is something of a curiosity as it contains prog and pop material as well as 'filler'.The prog stuff like Dukes Travels is superb but then there are some very boring ballads that do nothing for me at all. |
It's a four star album for me, but there is some pop on there that stops me awarding that fifth star. 'Misunderstanding' 'Alone Tonight' and 'Please Dont Ask' were all an unfortunate indicator of what was to come..
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Losendos
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 03 2005
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 571
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Posted: June 26 2006 at 20:09 |
Duke is something of a curiosity as it contains prog and pop material as well as 'filler'.The prog stuff like Dukes Travels is superb but then there are some very boring ballads that do nothing for me at all. [/QUOTE]
b
Agreed. It seems theywere partly working on a concept album ( The first track, duchess , guide vocal, duke's travel and duke's end ) but then broke the concept up with pop tracks ( incidentally please don't ask is a gem ) and filler material. It is quite long for those times at fifty five minutes. Genesis were a band that very much followed the trends of the day and so maybe at this time they were uncertain which direction the music industry were going.
But by Abacab we are starting to get into a decade of huge corporate profits at the expense of artistic merit , the total dumbing down of society with Aaron Spelling TV, blow wave , mullet and Annie Lennox haircuts, MTV, drum machines, computerised goo,the new romantics, rap and the ubiquitous Phil Collins as the music scene. The triumph of style over substance if ever a decade sucked it was this one.
Edited by Losendos - June 26 2006 at 21:31
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How wonderful to be so profound
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Fragile
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 27 2004
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 1125
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Posted: June 26 2006 at 20:20 |
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Bj-1
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 04 2005
Location: No(r)Way
Status: Online
Points: 31327
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Posted: June 26 2006 at 20:30 |
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It's a good album. Some great songs, some not. Duke is much better though.
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RIO/AVANT/ZEUHL - The best thing you can get with yer pants on!
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Teaflax
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 26 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1225
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Posted: June 26 2006 at 20:36 |
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On the whole, I prefer it to Duke. There's some genuinely good
songwriting on there, even if it's Hacketless and doesn't delve into
overt proggery. I especially like the little down-and-up figure after
"Poor little Nemo!" - that's the bit that got me to listen to the album
at all, back in the day.
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mgallard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 27 2005
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 155
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Posted: June 26 2006 at 20:45 |
Post Hackett, from most liked to least liked: Duke > And then there were there > Abacab > Calling all stations > Genesis > Invisible Touch > We can't dance. I find And then there were three very good, now that the remasters actually come with bass on them it's even better, the lp versions were too compressed to fit the 50 minutes plus of music on them. I actually like Follow You, F. M. as it brings back many memories, but as most here are prog-snobs that song will of course be called "trash" by most of them (makes them feel superior, I guess). Greetings Mogens
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Soul Dreamer
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 17 2005
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 997
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Posted: June 26 2006 at 22:09 |
Fragile wrote:
Absoloute drivel. |
I agree.
When I got this album in 1978 I knew an Era had passed. Genesis were not Genesis anymore, & never were again.
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To be the one who seeks so I may find .. (Metallica)
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mrgd
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 02 2005
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 822
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Posted: June 26 2006 at 23:04 |
What did I say? " We can't afford to be too blinkered in our views now IMO."
It certainly seems that some of us can, does it not ?
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Looking still the same after all these years...
mrgd
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
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Posted: June 27 2006 at 03:19 |
Fragile wrote:
Absoloute drivel. |
Thankyou for that insight. Would you care to expand on this a little??
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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pero
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 11 2005
Location: Croatia
Status: Offline
Points: 1242
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Posted: June 27 2006 at 03:47 |
QUOTE=70sSoundquality]WHAT A GREAT ALBUM. My favorite Genesis piece!!
A+++++++++ [/QUOTE]
I feel sorry for you man  |
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clairvoyant
Forum Groupie
Joined: February 26 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 68
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Posted: June 27 2006 at 11:52 |
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What if you combined And Then There Were Three and Duke.
So from ATTWT you could try
Down And Out
Snowbound
Burning Rope
Deep In The Motherlode
The Lady Lies
Duke you could put in
Duchess
Guide Vocal (just cause it fits in with the suite)
Heathaze
Cul-de-sac
Duke's Travels
Duke's End
and if you really wanted to, Behind the Lines
But I'd dig that album
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tdreamer
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 03 2006
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 267
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Posted: June 27 2006 at 12:05 |
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I much prefer ATTW3 to anything that followed. Duke is an OK album but it marked the biggest change in their sound and song structure.
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necromancing777
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 19 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 144
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Posted: June 27 2006 at 20:48 |
clairvoyant wrote:
What if you combined And Then There Were Three and Duke.
So from ATTWT you could try
Down And Out
Snowbound
Burning Rope
Deep In The Motherlode
The Lady Lies
Duke you could put in
Duchess
Guide Vocal (just cause it fits in with the suite)
Heathaze
Cul-de-sac
Duke's Travels
Duke's End
and if you really wanted to, Behind the Lines
But I'd dig that album
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I've tried something similar to this before, don't know if it works but I understand the desire to "re-edit". I think ATTW3 and Duke are good enough to stand on their own merits. I feel ABACAB is where the wheels start to come off. Half of ABACAB is good, but the rest could have been on a PC solo album (ex: No Reply At All, Man On The Corner). Try listening to ABACAB but adding "Submarine", "Naminau", and "Paperlate". It's then that you realize what ABACAB might have been, thus for me, making it the last true Genesis album before "That's All", "In Too Deep", "Jesus He Knows Me" and the like came to pollute the airwave of AOR FM radio stations wordwide (making millionaires of the "three" mentioned in the title of ATTW3). Poor Mr. Hackett, if he could've only held out for a few more years, he'd have a couple of extra Jaguars in the garage too!
Edited by necromancing777 - June 27 2006 at 20:50
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"Your progressive hypocrites hand out their trash,
But it was mine in the first place, so I'll burn it to ash."
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pero
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 11 2005
Location: Croatia
Status: Offline
Points: 1242
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Posted: June 28 2006 at 04:08 |
Abbacab 
Duke
And Then There Were  |
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And Then There Were Three...
