And Then There Were Three...
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Topic: And Then There Were Three...
Posted By: 70sSoundquality
Subject: And Then There Were Three...
Date Posted: June 23 2006 at 23:14
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WHAT A GREAT ALBUM. My favorite Genesis piece!!
A+++++++++
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Replies:
Posted By: JesusBetancourt
Date Posted: June 23 2006 at 23:18
 what? are you on crack or something?
j/k its allright but......well......well...augh forget, atleast I tried ------------- "He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water" John 7:38 |
Posted By: pepo
Date Posted: June 23 2006 at 23:19
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To me it's even better than wind and wuthering. Just check the synth solo in the first song. |
Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: June 23 2006 at 23:21
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I like the album. It's not my favorite, but I like it.
Duke is my favorite. Great album! E ------------- 
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Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: June 23 2006 at 23:38
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It seems as if I am in the minority for liking "And Then There Were Three" (and "Duke"), but by no means does it go near the top of the list. It is very enjoyable, but when compared to everything before it, it pales. As members were removed, so was the quality. ------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: The Letter M
Date Posted: June 23 2006 at 23:57
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I'll admit to not giving And Then There Were Three the amount of listens I probably should, but it's not the worst Genesis album in my opinion.
I'll have to give this one a spin really soon because it's stuck between two of my favorite albums - Wind & Wuthering and Duke, which are both really good! -Marc. ------------- I know what I like and I like what I know. I will choose a path that's clear, I will choose free will. If I die tomorrow, I`d be alright because I believe that after we`re gone, the spirit carries on. |
Posted By: pepo
Date Posted: June 24 2006 at 00:05
| I'm not sure if by the time the album was recorded Phil Collins was into his solo career but it has that poppy feel in the slower songs like in your own special way. I particularly like the faster ones. |
Posted By: necromancing777
Date Posted: June 24 2006 at 00:26
You know, in the Phil Collins-era, I give this one high marks. I especially love the opening track, "Down And Out". Other great songs: "Burning Rope", "Deep In The Motherlode" and "The Lady Lies". Unfortunately for this album, "Follow You Follow Me" always gets the attention and finds it's way onto many a Genesis greatest hits package.
 My favorite Phil era studio albums in order:
1- A Trick of the Tail
2- Wind & Wuthering
3- Duke
4- And Then There Were Three
5- Abacab
6- Genesis
7- Invisible Touch
8- We Can't Dance
Keep in mind, IMO all the PG-era albums are better than the PC-era, and 'Calling All Stations' is probablly better than Invisible Touch and We Can't Dance. At least that's what I'd tell a prog novice.  ------------- 
"Your progressive hypocrites hand out their trash, But it was mine in the first place, so I'll burn it to ash." |
70sSoundquality wrote:Posted By: 70sSoundquality
Date Posted: June 24 2006 at 00:31
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You know what song really rules on "And Then There Were Three" ?
Say It's Alright Joe.
Man, that song is suicidal. I like the weird stuff.
Also, "Get out of the way fat man, you've got something to do", ughh...it's called......can't remember. Something like "Go West Young Man". Really killer killer Rutherford song. Deep in the Motherloade? Is that it?
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Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: June 24 2006 at 00:32
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One of my least favourite albums.
------------- 
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Posted By: Zac M
Date Posted: June 24 2006 at 00:35
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It's just OK, has some good songs, some bad ones, and some boring ones. "Snowbound" is awful, I've never liked that song. ------------- "Art is not imitation, nor is it something manufactured according to the wishes of instinct or good taste. It is a process of expression." -Merleau-Ponty |
Posted By: The Letter M
Date Posted: June 24 2006 at 00:40
I think Phil did not start his solo career until AFTER Duke, when he had more reasons to write music. Infact, I'm pretty sure his cover of "Behind The Lines" was on his first album in 1980 or 1981. -Marc. ------------- I know what I like and I like what I know. I will choose a path that's clear, I will choose free will. If I die tomorrow, I`d be alright because I believe that after we`re gone, the spirit carries on. |
Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: June 24 2006 at 02:16
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This album is pure class, one could only wish that a band's level of creativity could even come close to this 1978 masterpiece after so many years. To the most creative band of all time!!! ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: June 24 2006 at 02:41
| Its an album I've liked for a long time.Banks,Rutherford and Collins had plenty to prove after the departure of Hackett.It was just after punk was changing the face of the musical landscape.It really could have gone tits up but the remaining G Boys come out swinging for me.Ultra tight playing with a production that highlights the patented Genesis wall of sound and most importantly some cracking songs.A great mixture of 'commercial' radio friendly songs and short classic epics this album works beautifully.Its the last Genesis album I can happily listen to in its entirety.Duke showed a few too many cracks and the dam burst when they made the excrement of Abacab. |
Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: June 24 2006 at 03:10
Opinions respected but puleeeze...!!!!
Abacab makes the Porcupine Tree's and Neil Morses of today look tardy.....Genesis evolved until Invisible Touch ( that was regression) and even then tried really hard with WCD and CAS but Abacab was above the averages.....excrement my arse. ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: horza
Date Posted: June 24 2006 at 05:51
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It is a very good album,far better than some people think,I really like 'Deep in the Motherlode' and the live version is excellent. I would'nt say it was my favourite though - A Trick of the Tail would be up there somewhere. ------------- Originally posted by darkshade: Calling Mike Portnoy a bad drummer is like calling Stephen Hawking an idiot. |
Posted By: Gog/Magog
Date Posted: June 24 2006 at 05:52
Well said, I like Abacab, I don't know why it gets such bad press here. -------------  |
Posted By: Arsillus
Date Posted: June 24 2006 at 10:19
Well, I don't find it to be that amazing of an album, but it's certainly very good and sadly underrated/overhated.
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: June 24 2006 at 10:24
Abacab was Genesis giving up as far as I'm concerned.Porcupine Tree and Neal Morse are both making albums way better than that ...ermmmm...'thing'.
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Posted By: Phil
Date Posted: June 24 2006 at 10:26
| It's not bad but its hardly a masterpiece! |
Posted By: Chicapah
Date Posted: June 24 2006 at 10:38
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I bought it the day it was released and I expected more like W&W but it didn't deliver the goods in any way shape or form. I remember I kept listening to it expecting to all of a sudden discover it's greatness but it never happened. I just kept thinking I should like it because I loved Genesis so much. Finally I realized that it was a bad album, which is okay. Not every slugger hits a homer every time he steps to the plate. There was a lot of turmoil in the band's individual lives at that time and I think the resulting sub-par compositions reflect that fact. The real irony is that they got their breakout single from it and it turned their attention away from prog and towards the MTV generation for the rest of their career. ------------- "Literature is well enough, as a time-passer, and for the improvement and general elevation and purification of mankind, but it has no practical value" - Mark Twain |
Posted By: salmacis
Date Posted: June 24 2006 at 10:55
| I like it, always have. I've always felt there was enough great prog tracks like 'The Lady Lies', 'Burning Rope' and 'Deep In The Motherlode', plus two of Tony Banks' very best songs in 'Undertow' and 'Many Too Many'. There are no weak songs there, imo. |
Posted By: Barla
Date Posted: June 24 2006 at 12:35
That song is "Illegal Alien", funny, man !!
And the video too !!
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Posted By: cevor
Date Posted: June 24 2006 at 13:00
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the penultimate album in Genesis's progression ( imho) then Duke ended it..
perhaps due to Phil's solo career not happening yet, don't know, but I still love Then There Were Three...the tour was great to with the mirrors above the stage and all.... ------------- who was breaking away from the pack http://www.childhoodsend.net |
Posted By: maani
Date Posted: June 24 2006 at 13:16
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Well...
Definitely underrated (though probably not quite as good as some of the fanatics would have it (LOL)).
Still, in many of my reviews of neo-prog albums, I have made the (quite surprised) comment that the overall "sound" that Genesis created on W&W and ATTWT is among the most influential "sounds" ever, given how many bands and albums evoke that sound.
I am an unabashed fan of ATTWT, and make no apologies for it. It has two of their absolute best "ballads" (Snowbound and Undertow), one of their best "heavies" (Down and Out), and even an excellent "extended" composition (Burning Rope). And all of the other songs have their positive qualities and help to round out what is unquestionably Genesis' most underrated album.
Peace.
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Posted By: Hector Gilbert
Date Posted: June 24 2006 at 13:18
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A lot of it sounds like a watered-down Wind & Wuthering, with the exception of the final track "Follow You, Follow Me" which is about as faceless as Genesis with Phil Collins ever got in my eyes (even before all the 80s stuff). I was never hugely impressed by it. In fact much of Wind & Wuthering lost its charm after a few listens as well, a lot of it was quite syrupy.
I do however like Duke and Abacab, the two albums where I felt the three-man Genesis found a character of their own. I wouldn't be as keen on them as I would be with any 70s Gabriel-era album, but I enjoy them nonetheless. |
Posted By: Syzygy
Date Posted: June 24 2006 at 13:58
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Although there's some good material on ATTWT it sounds unfocused, almost like a set of demos for 3 seperate solo careers polished up with a few collaborative pieces padding it out.
Duke is a much better album IMO - more coherent, and the last great Genesis album. ------------- 'Like so many of you I've got my doubts about how much to contribute to the already rich among us...' Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom |
Posted By: Frasse
Date Posted: June 24 2006 at 15:57
| Not as good as anything before it by Genesis, but quite good. Better than anything they released after, except Duke. |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: June 24 2006 at 16:12
| Not a big fan, I do rather like abacab though. |
Posted By: Zac M
Date Posted: June 24 2006 at 16:14
I like Abacab more too, it's more consistent and enjoyable. ------------- "Art is not imitation, nor is it something manufactured according to the wishes of instinct or good taste. It is a process of expression." -Merleau-Ponty |
Posted By: Harold Demure
Date Posted: June 24 2006 at 16:48
Quite a good album, with some great tracks like "Burning Rope", but also some rubbish like "Follow You Follow Me". The same with the album "Duke". I think it would be a good idea to choose best tracks from both of them and record on a one disc. Then it would be a fantastic "album"  ------------- You can choose a ready guide In some celestial voice If you choose not to decide You still have made a choice |
Posted By: dralan
Date Posted: June 24 2006 at 16:53
| Actually this album was my first exposure to Genesis, so I'll always have a soft spot for it. After going back and discovering the rest of their catalog there are better albums of course. But this disc still has the mid-period trademark Genesis sound (sans Hacketts guitar), the songs are just shorter. Its kind of sad to listen to though because in hindsight it was the beginning of the end of Genesis' progressive era. |
Posted By: maani
Date Posted: June 24 2006 at 17:25
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Although taste is subjective, I honestly cannot see how anyone can say that Abacab is a better album than ATTWT. The only truly stand-out songs on Abacab are the title track (maybe), Me and Sarah Jane (maybe), Dodo/Lurker (unquestionably), and Like It or Not (maybe). No Reply At All is Collins-pop, Keep It Dark is silly, Who Dunnit is out-and-out stupid, Man On the Corner is Collins-pop again, and Another Record is uninspired and weak. Meanwhile, as noted, ATTWT offers Down and Out (an excellent "heavy"), Undertow (among their best "ballads"), Snowbound (another excellent ballad), Burning Rope (a "classic" extended composition), Deep in the Motherlode (a solid rocker), Many Too Many (another good ballad), Say It's Alright, Joe (one of the most emotional quasi-Gabriel-esque songs they've done), and The Lady Lies (a reasonably good story-song). Only Ballad of Big, Scenes From a Night's Dream and Follow You Follow Me are questionable.
With the exception of the fact that Dodo/Lurker kicks butt on anything in ATTWT, song for song ATTWT seems better thanb Abacab.
But, as they say, opinions are like noses...
Peace.
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Posted By: Progger
Date Posted: June 24 2006 at 18:39
| IMO, ATTWT is Genesis's second weakest album after Tresspass. It is just a collection of short 'POP' songs. At least subsequent Collin's era albums had an epic track. I saw them on The Duke Tour, and they played Say It's Alright Joe in the set, that was a major dissapointment! |
Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: June 24 2006 at 21:00
I think Maaini says it all to be honest!! Great respect for most of the A-B-A-C-A-B sound too...thank you. ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: 70sSoundquality
Date Posted: June 25 2006 at 00:08
No they aren't!!
Ballad of Big is friggin' amazing. I love the arranging, vocals and harmonies are amazing, and I die everytime I hear that CP-70 piano intro with analog chorus. It's a trip! Scene's is another well written piece, and a really great rhythm. Follow you Follow Me is the only song that I might consider "pop", but still, it doesn't really count as pop. It still has a "hippie" sort of feel to it, the synthesizers just kind of exclude it from standard pop in my opinion as it also uses classic Banks chord transitions.
I don't understand how so many people can say there is "pop" on this album. Typically, I don't speak ill of an album unless I know I could do better. Better of course, is subjective. I dislike 90125 by yes, tremendously, but I'll never say its "rubbish" or "watered down" because I know I could never write melodies and songs like that. I think what is needed here is perspective.
If the trio said "f**k it, no more Genesis...we'll start a separate three piece band" and recorded ATTWT, I'm sure people's opinions wouldn't merely be based on what Genesis recorded 4 years prior when they were a completely different band. It's my favorite album by them, but I know that Lamb is just as good. It's just made with a completely different goal in mind. If they were "losing inspiration" I'm sure they would just not make an album. It's not like they needed the money. The creativity flows on this album, on every song. Just like all of the previous efforts as well (I've not heard anything past ATTWT, except the Tony Banks solo album from 1979 which is all badass).
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Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: June 25 2006 at 00:39
Easy my friend, It's O.K. It is a good album.  The point is that it is Genesis, and is not as strong as their previous releases. You have to compare when talking about one band's output. It is a better album than others in the genre, just not one of Genesis' best. Of course, it is all subjective. If it's your favorite, great, but don't get hurt when others don't feel the same way. As a prog fan, it comes with the territory. ------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: June 25 2006 at 04:32
This echoes my feelings about this album. This was the first Genesis album I heard in its entirity, on a tape cassette, hired from the library. It's a great album, full of strong melodies and memorable songs. It's the perfect bridge between 'WAW' and 'Duke' I have to disagree about Duke, though. I think it's their last excelent album! 
------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: maani
Date Posted: June 25 2006 at 09:59
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I happen to like Duke as well (only slightly less than ATTWT), and agree that it was the last truly listenable Genesis album (though Invisible Touch did have Tonight Tonight and the truly brilliant Domino suite to recommend it...)
Many people may not be aware that Duke was written by Collins during the break-up of his marriage. This was the impetus behind much of the lyrics (Guide Vocal being particularly poignant), and, to my mind, one of the things that holds the album together; i.e., the raw emotion that was coming from Collins' real-life experience.
Peace.
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Posted By: harlequin71
Date Posted: June 25 2006 at 10:14
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I actually prefer ATTWT to the previous effort Wind and Wuthering because of the stronger compositions, even though the former is more of a proggish-pop-A.O.R. album compared to the more typical symphonic progressive of WAW.
However, neither come close to the majesty of the 1970-1975 era of genesis. Trick of the Tail was their last great LP in my opinion.
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Posted By: Prog-man
Date Posted: June 25 2006 at 10:52
W&W... GREAT ALBUM!
NOT THE BEST OF THE COLLINS ERA (SECONDS OUT, W&W & ATOTT WERE MORE PROGRESSSIVE).
BUT ONE OF THEM, ALONG GENESIS, CAS, W&W & THREE SIDES LIVE (REALLY GOOD ALBUMS.)
IT HAS A ATMOSPHERE SUCH SIMILAR TO W&W -MELANCHOLIC AND VERY BRITISH-, IN SPITE OF FACT OF BEING MORE SHORT AND SIMPLE TRACKS, FOR INFLUENCE OF THE PUNK IN THE WHOLE MUSIC OF THAT MOMENT.
 (I THINK THAT CAS HAS A SIMILAR ATMOSPHERA LIKE THOSE...) AND THE ALBUM HAS A GOOD GUITAR WORK OF MR. RUTHERFORD ON ELECTRIC LEAD GUITARS , PROBABLY THE BEST OF HIM.IT IS REALLY COOL, I LIKE SO MUCH THE MOST "PROGGIE" SONGS (DOWN AND OUT, BURNING ROPE, DEEP INTO THE MOTHER LODE, FOR EXAMPLE), AND THE BALLADS (LIKE UNDERTOW, MANY TO MANY, SNOWBOUND...)
FOLLOW YOU, FOLLOW ME IS NOT MY CUP OF TEA
 , BUT I CAN LISTEN TO IT (SOME TIMES...). AND WITHOUT THIS SONG, MIKE'S "DIGITAL GUITAR CUTS" HAD NEVER EXISTED
 , AND -IN CONSEQUENCE- MAYBE MIKE & THE MECHANICS HAD NOT BEEN FORMED EITHER... ------------- Arriving somewhere but not here |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: June 25 2006 at 11:16
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ATTWT is one of those albums that really divides Genesis fans. As far as I'm concerned it's a true prog effort, and considering the loss of Steve Hackett, must have been difficult to put together.
Mike Rutherford did once say that, after Steve leaving, they all made a concerted effort to prove themselves as individual writers. If you look at the credits for that album you'll see that Tony Banks wrote four songs on his own: Undertow, Burning Rope, Many too Many and The Lady Lies. Rutherford wrote Snowbound, Deep in the Motherlode and Say it's alright Joe. The remaining songs were group efforts. Rutherford said it was an insecure time, but by the time they recorded Duke they were back to writing virtually all material as a group. An approach they favoured from then on. I think ATTWT is a brilliant album, which allowed Rutherford in particular to prove himself, both as writer and guitarist. It was an important period in their history, but for me it was a tragedy what happened to them after 'Duke' ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Losendos
Date Posted: June 25 2006 at 23:03
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I have always had mixed feelings about this album . By late 78 prog was getting tired with the public so they clearly tried to make an album that was non prog ( No mystical lyrics, no solos , no long pieces, no real atmospherics, no multi layered sounds,no long tracks , little creativity and definetly not a concept album). It was a big disappointment at the time. Over the years I've softened somewhat about it and come to recognise the high standard of songwriting.
If you combine the strong parts of ATTW3 with the good points of Hackett's spectral mornings you would have a true masterpiece.One album is strong exactly where the other is weak. Thus it was a great tragedy that Hackett left
Overall I prefer Duke which I think was more of an attempt to bring back prog.
During the second wind that arrived for prog in 1983 ( Crises, Eye in the Sky , 90125 , the rise of Marillion) Genesis also had something of an attempt at prog with the Genesis (shapes album) .
But I agree with RichardH about Abacab which is lame and the writer who said they had completely given up on Invisible Touch both of which I think it is best to avoid.
On the Genesis website Tony Banks says that ATTW3 is for him personally the least satisfying of all their albums and Phil Collins says that it is only good in bits and pieces witha couple of good tracks. So the feelings of disappointment that some of the fans have might be shared with the band members.
------------- How wonderful to be so profound |
Posted By: mrgd
Date Posted: June 26 2006 at 01:01
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CHICAPAH and I were obviously doing the same thing at about the same time at either ends of the globe ie. trying to get into ATTW3 at the time of it's release. I had been to the UK and had returned home after seeing GENESIS live in London in 77 after the release of W&W. It was one of the best concerts I have seen and I had high expectations notwithstanding the obvious.
While my disappointment was also palpable I have managed to be more objective about it. The disappointment was also due to the inevitable consequences of the part disintegration of the band as well as impressions of this new release.
Where I differ with CHICAPAH is that I, like many others, don't think it's bad. Many other contributors have well highlighted why it is not a bad album at all. Many of us viewed it [and judged it] in the context of what had preceded it .What else were we to do but the winds of change were picking up their intensity, not only with GENESIS, but in progressive rock in general and, like so many others, I didn't much like what I was hearing or seeing. But I lent the album to a mate who was still very new to GENESIS and vice-versa back then and he loved it and, as far as I know, still does. And I think that's the whole point here .Taken on it's own, it's a very good album.
We can't afford to be too blinkered in our views now IMO. Those of us who haven't really listened to the album for a long time [and I mean REALLY listened to it] could do well to re-appraise things as far ATTW3 is concerned .[How far you want to take it though with subsequent releases is entirely up to each and every one of you including ,of course,whether you think my views are also excrement-like]! ------------- Looking still the same after all these years... mrgd |
Posted By: Intruder
Date Posted: June 26 2006 at 02:06
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That "progression" of Genesis from prog to pop took a big step with ATTW3....the songs are shorter, sharper and more succint. Doesn't make it better album for me...I've always liked my Genesis longer, dreamier and a bit more winding. Still, a solid three star album that points toward the next (and I think much better) Duke. Though Banks may have said it's their least satisfying album, some of his personal fave Genesis work comes from this LP....he even revisited ...Undertow on his first solo album. ------------- I like to feel the suspense when you're certain you know I am there..... |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: June 26 2006 at 02:09
Duke is something of a curiosity as it contains prog and pop material as well as 'filler'.The prog stuff like Dukes Travels is superb but then there are some very boring ballads that do nothing for me at all.
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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: June 26 2006 at 05:19
It's a four star album for me, but there is some pop on there that stops me awarding that fifth star. 'Misunderstanding' 'Alone Tonight' and 'Please Dont Ask' were all an unfortunate indicator of what was to come.. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Losendos
Date Posted: June 26 2006 at 20:09
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Duke is something of a curiosity as it contains prog and pop material as well as 'filler'.The prog stuff like Dukes Travels is superb but then there are some very boring ballads that do nothing for me at all. [/QUOTE]
b
Agreed. It seems theywere partly working on a concept album ( The first track, duchess , guide vocal, duke's travel and duke's end ) but then broke the concept up with pop tracks ( incidentally please don't ask is a gem ) and filler material. It is quite long for those times at fifty five minutes. Genesis were a band that very much followed the trends of the day and so maybe at this time they were uncertain which direction the music industry were going.
But by Abacab we are starting to get into a decade of huge corporate profits at the expense of artistic merit , the total dumbing down of society with Aaron Spelling TV, blow wave , mullet and Annie Lennox haircuts, MTV, drum machines, computerised goo,the new romantics, rap and the ubiquitous Phil Collins as the music scene. The triumph of style over substance if ever a decade sucked it was this one. ------------- How wonderful to be so profound |
Posted By: Fragile
Date Posted: June 26 2006 at 20:20
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Absoloute drivel.
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Posted By: Bj-1
Date Posted: June 26 2006 at 20:30
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It's a good album. Some great songs, some not. Duke is much better though. ------------- RIO/AVANT/ZEUHL - The best thing you can get with yer pants on! |
Posted By: Teaflax
Date Posted: June 26 2006 at 20:36
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On the whole, I prefer it to Duke. There's some genuinely good
songwriting on there, even if it's Hacketless and doesn't delve into
overt proggery. I especially like the little down-and-up figure after
"Poor little Nemo!" - that's the bit that got me to listen to the album
at all, back in the day. -------------  
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Posted By: mgallard
Date Posted: June 26 2006 at 20:45
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Post Hackett, from most liked to least liked: Duke > And then there were there > Abacab > Calling all stations > Genesis > Invisible Touch > We can't dance. I find And then there were three very good, now that the remasters actually come with bass on them it's even better, the lp versions were too compressed to fit the 50 minutes plus of music on them. I actually like Follow You, F. M. as it brings back many memories, but as most here are prog-snobs that song will of course be called "trash" by most of them (makes them feel superior, I guess). Greetings Mogens |
Posted By: Soul Dreamer
Date Posted: June 26 2006 at 22:09
I agree.
When I got this album in 1978 I knew an Era had passed. Genesis were not Genesis anymore, & never were again. ------------- To be the one who seeks so I may find .. (Metallica) |
Posted By: mrgd
Date Posted: June 26 2006 at 23:04
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What did I say? " We can't afford to be too blinkered in our views now IMO."
It certainly seems that some of us can, does it not ? ------------- Looking still the same after all these years... mrgd |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: June 27 2006 at 03:19
Thankyou for that insight. Would you care to expand on this a little?? 
------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: pero
Date Posted: June 27 2006 at 03:47
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QUOTE=70sSoundquality]WHAT A GREAT ALBUM. My favorite Genesis piece!!
A+++++++++ [/QUOTE]
I feel sorry for you man
 |
Posted By: clairvoyant
Date Posted: June 27 2006 at 11:52
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What if you combined And Then There Were Three and Duke. So from ATTWT you could try Down And Out Snowbound Burning Rope Deep In The Motherlode The Lady Lies Duke you could put in Duchess Guide Vocal (just cause it fits in with the suite) Heathaze Cul-de-sac Duke's Travels Duke's End and if you really wanted to, Behind the Lines But I'd dig that album |
Posted By: tdreamer
Date Posted: June 27 2006 at 12:05
| I much prefer ATTW3 to anything that followed. Duke is an OK album but it marked the biggest change in their sound and song structure. |
Posted By: necromancing777
Date Posted: June 27 2006 at 20:48
I've tried something similar to this before, don't know if it works but I understand the desire to "re-edit". I think ATTW3 and Duke are good enough to stand on their own merits. I feel ABACAB is where the wheels start to come off. Half of ABACAB is good, but the rest could have been on a PC solo album (ex: No Reply At All, Man On The Corner). Try listening to ABACAB but adding "Submarine", "Naminau", and "Paperlate". It's then that you realize what ABACAB might have been, thus for me, making it the last true Genesis album before "That's All", "In Too Deep", "Jesus He Knows Me" and the like came to pollute the airwave of AOR FM radio stations wordwide (making millionaires of the "three" mentioned in the title of ATTW3). Poor Mr. Hackett, if he could've only held out for a few more years, he'd have a couple of extra Jaguars in the garage too! -------------
"Your progressive hypocrites hand out their trash, But it was mine in the first place, so I'll burn it to ash." |
Posted By: pero
Date Posted: June 28 2006 at 04:08
Abbacab 
Duke
And Then There Were
 |
Posted By: Royalist
Date Posted: June 28 2006 at 04:48
Collins era begins with Nursery Cryme! ------------- 
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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: June 28 2006 at 05:14
'Collins era' refers to when Phil Collins became lead singer. Not when he joined the band. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: pero
Date Posted: June 28 2006 at 05:16
| He became a lead singer on "Trick of a tail" as I know. |
Posted By: rupert
Date Posted: June 28 2006 at 13:56
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Hailin' "And then there were three" is definately something I can agree with... it's a wonderful album with beautiful songs, some of them ranking among the very best Genesis ever did ( Undertow !!! ), to me, it's the last "great prog"-Album they did, although anyone can easily complain about the absence of Steve Hackett... see, he may have been right with "Wind and Wuthering", to me it's a rather tired ( not tedious ) Album that could have been better ( Inside & Out on it and it WERE ! ), but "ATTWT" is great and powerful... ------------- ...I'm a musician/singer/songwriter, visit me on www.reverbnation.com/rupertlenz and there you can choose from 125 recordings you can listen to ( for free ) if you're not limited to prog-rock ! |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: June 28 2006 at 15:29
Correct. Fine album.  ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Liquid Len
Date Posted: June 28 2006 at 17:22
I wish I had a choice for my favourite 'Phil era' album, apart from Trick I can't stand any of them, with W&W being truely awful!! ------------- Can you tell me where my country lies? |
Posted By: Teaflax
Date Posted: June 28 2006 at 18:06
Eleventh Earl of Mar, Wot Gorilla and the closing trio from Unqiet Slumbers to Afterglow is as good as almost anything he band has ever done, even counting Gabriel era. And Blood on the Rooftops is a Phil-led Genesis ballad done right - certainly better than Ripples on TotT. -------------
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Posted By: Joolz
Date Posted: June 28 2006 at 18:26
 this sequence is absolutely stunning - definitely high on my top ten Genesis. I like both TotT and WaW a lot, always have. I also agree that And Then There Were Three is an excellent album in its own right with some top notch songs, just without the overt progginess. Had it been released by anyone else then it would probably be considered a masterpiece!
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Posted By: Fragile
Date Posted: June 28 2006 at 19:26
But great to see you listening to Olias of Sunhillow a truly stupendous album.
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Posted By: mrgd
Date Posted: June 28 2006 at 21:12
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TO JOOLZ:
' Had it been released by anyone else then it would probably be considered a masterpiece.'
Well, if not a masterpiece, certainly a very, very good prog. release. I agree wholeheartedly with your views and, get quite dismayed at the attitude expressed by FRAGILE and others.
"Collins and his two other cohorts disgust me" ....... WHAT THE......?
This is either unhealthily bitter and twisted or a contrived comment designed to provoke unfavourable responses and therefore repugnant to the PA ethos. We all understand the ' sold out' argument. It's been debated ad nauseam. FRAGILE must renounce all earlier GENESIS work in which Collins, Banks and Rutherford were involved if this really is the strength of his/her convictions on the matter. That's a matter for him/her.
This is a thread about ATTW3 which if it continues in this vein is no doubt in danger of being shut down which would be a shame as it has raised some interesting debate imo.
------------- Looking still the same after all these years... mrgd |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: June 28 2006 at 21:16
nah
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Posted By: ____VdGG____
Date Posted: June 28 2006 at 21:17
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Not a masterpiece by any stretch... but the synth solo in Down And Out OWNS, and Many Too Many and The Lady Lies are solid songs too, IMO. ------------- Iron throated monsters are forcing the screams; Mind and machinery box-press our dreams |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: June 28 2006 at 21:17
Agree.
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: June 29 2006 at 02:14
Damn those pesky keyboards,the bane of progressive rock
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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: June 29 2006 at 05:33
^ Indeed, bloody keyboards!! 
Fragile: There is plenty of guitar on ATTWT. In fact Rutherford emulates Hacketts style quite well in places I thought, although I would concede the band did really miss Hackett. The strength of this album is the songs themselves; the melodies and the atmosphere. Try to imagine the production being more like 'WAW' and dropping a few of the weaker tracks and you would have an album comparable in quality to 'WAW' IMO. Yes, I'm enjoying Olias at the moment. It's taken me a while though. The production sounds well ahead of its time. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Royalist
Date Posted: June 29 2006 at 08:56
Why? -------------
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Posted By: tdreamer
Date Posted: June 29 2006 at 09:22
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Isn't it quite strange that this album (ATTW3) sold better than any previous Genesis album. Maybe it was because Follow You Follow Me was a hit. IMO it is the last great record they done. I like it more than Duke and appart from two songs thought Abacab was dire. I can listen to Genesis post ATTW3 but IMO they lost the spark they had. My wife likes this album very much too and she doesn't like prog all that much.
My personal opinion on ATTW3 is that it is a very deep and dark album that is ideal for winding down to. |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: June 29 2006 at 09:55
I understand why you say it starts with Nursery Cryme. It's Phils first album with the band. But for as long as I've been into Genesis - 20 years + - the eras of the band have always been defined by who's singing. It's not my rule but I guess it makes sense, as both singers put such a different stamp on the bands sound. By 1977 Genesis bared little resemblance to the band they were just 3 years before.
------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: June 29 2006 at 09:59
I always thought it was a very dark and moody album too. This is strange as I've heard it reffered to as a 'bright' album.. I find the whole package beautifully sad. It's selling power must have been 'Follow you Follow me' It was the bands first top 10 hit, so I guess it was the first Genesis album to really catch the attention of the masses. Mike Rutherford has often said that women never went to Genesis concerts until 'Follow you follow me' came out. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: June 29 2006 at 10:20
Well, FYFM is the only Genesis song my wife likes!
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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: June 29 2006 at 10:31
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^ My ex-girlfriend liked quite a lot of Genesis, mostly the mid to late 70's Collins era. ATTWT was her favourite album, but she broke with tradition as a female Genesis fan, and really didn't like 'FYFM' Her favourite track was 'Down & Out' from that album.
This is usually the album I play to new girlfriends, or female friends generally if I'm trying to get them interested in prog. The last woman I played it to, just rolled her eyes at every track, until 'FYFM' came on, and then announced 'Oh yeah. Thats better. I know this one. Is this really Genesis. I thought it was just Phil Collins' I think that speaks volumes about that song... ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: June 29 2006 at 10:43
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You should be playing something like Marvin Gaye to new girlfriends, mate.You'll never get a shag by playing them Genesis.
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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: June 29 2006 at 10:46
Hey! I've done it to Suppers Ready, you know! 
------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: tdreamer
Date Posted: June 29 2006 at 15:19
I like that.
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Posted By: Fragile
Date Posted: June 29 2006 at 20:18
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[QUOTE=Blacksword]^ Indeed, bloody keyboards!! Fragile: There is plenty of guitar on ATTWT. In fact Rutherford emulates Hacketts style quite well in places I thought, although I would concede the band did really miss Hackett. The strength of this album is the songs themselves; the melodies and the atmosphere. Try to imagine the production being more like 'WAW' and dropping a few of the weaker tracks and you would have an album comparable in quality to 'WAW' IMO. Yes, I'm enjoying Olias at the moment. It's taken me a while though. The production sounds well ahead of its time.[/QUOTE Blacksword their time was over. I had been listening all through the early years until Trick which was a fine album.Wind for me was the start that the quality had begun to diminish.Then there was this next album.I don't doubt that through their subsequent releases there would be moments that brought back memories.But the product for me was indeed drivel.I cannot listen to it.Collins is not ome of my favourite people for what he did.
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Posted By: mgallard
Date Posted: June 29 2006 at 23:35
This is, may I say it, baloney. Phil's the bad guy now? Their time over? Huh? Not only preposterous but insulting too! If you know anything of Genesis music and their solos you'll notice they were all taking a similar route and furthermore I believe all credits (if you take the time to read the credits for all songs) will be Banks/Collins/Rutherford which is a clear enough. The route they took was their own, a group decision and what they liked at the time. Listen to Banks or Rutherford's solos of the 80's, 82 - Acting very strange, 83 - The Fugitive. I do find it quite shallow to criticise as if your own limited tastes are motive enough to limit the artistic freedom of the greats of music (for they are among the greats for sure!). They are artists and as such can decide to do whatever they like, even if you don't like it . I, in opposition, find the Genesis career very enjoyable as they include a large variety of music from the most progressive prog to lighthearted and sometimes even foolish pop (Illegal Alien... for example), I have no problem with that, none at all and listen to whatever part of the career I am in a mood to hear.All this 'putting people in a box' and expecting them never to jump out of it is so... hmmm... egoistic, shallow and foolish that I want to puke .I have a feeling much of the output that was lighter, more harmonic and less prog started appearing as the members of the group started falling in love, started their families and were inspired by those events. As I am in love, have a lovely wife and have a fabulous small boy, I have no phobia on the subject, a love song is beautiful and makes me think of my wife and kid and I enjoy it as much as any other Genesis song, it's not drivel as stated by some of the cynics here, I can see the beauty in it without any prejudice. ATTW3 is the first album that takes a healthy distance from all the proggy subjects, no mice, cats, Lamia or squonks in that one, just people, love in general, a healthy fear of death (kids do that to you), animism, more down to earth subjects. I think many of the naysayers will change their minds and open up a bit once they really fall in love and start building a family, that will change and/or eliminate those phobias that make them suffer so much and close their minds to anything that resembles a love song (or similar) for example. Greetings Mogens |
Posted By: Baggiesfaninuk
Date Posted: June 30 2006 at 04:53
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I don't have a problem with the evolution of Genesis from master progsters to pop superstars. They deserved success - they deserved the cash. It's just a shame they couldn't achieve that in their earlier days. Radio airplay - concentrating on singles rather than albums - made it very hard for the likes of Genesis and Yes to truly cash in on their finest music. Neither had a huge seller like Floyd's 'DSOTM' or Oldfield's 'TB'. The fact that they did evolve proved many prog critics wrong. I liked that. Even though I didn't like their music quite so much. I remember buying Abacab, Genesis (shapes), Invisible Touch and We Can't Dance - looking at the track lengths and trying to pick out what would most appeal. I quite like the album version of the epoymous track from Abacab - mainly for the interplay between the keys and guitar at the end. I also enjoy Domino, Fading Lights, Home By the Sea, etc.... no, not as much as Supper's Ready, Cinema Show and Firth of Fifth - but they do offer some respite from the shorter poppy songs - I suppose being longer poppy / prog songs for want of a better description. Going back on topic - ATTW3 - I find quite depressing actually. It is not an album to play when you wish to be cheered up. It sort of plods along in some parts, although Burning Rope and Many too Many do appeal - I think mainly because I do like Tony Bank's songwriting (hugely underrated). He has an ear for a fine melody and when in the right mood, some of his songs fit perfectly. There is a strong argument for comparisons of Genesis' evolution with Collin's solo career, although, don't forget that Mike and the Mechanics weren't that far behind Phil either. Mr Banks gained little recognition for his solo work - although his collaboration with Fish on 'Another Murder of a Day' and 'An Island in the Darkness' (Strictly Inc.) still get more spins on my stereo than anything by Genesis from ATTW3 onwards - they are classics in my opinion. As regards Duke, apart from Guide Vocal and Dukes Travels / End - I simply don't listen to it anymore. It's a shame, but with so much other good music around, I will only pick out the tracks from latter day Genesis albums that I truly like. Nothing else get's a chance. C'est la vie! ------------- My father was a beekeeper before me; his father was a beekeeper. I want to follow in their footsteps. And their footsteps were like this. (Runs screaming) "AAAAAAAH! I'm covered in beeeeees!" - Izzard |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: June 30 2006 at 05:33
mgallard makes some good obseravtions about the subject matter on ATTWT. Ballads like 'Undertow' are really quite overwhelming emotionally IMO. I'll never forget the impact these songs had on me when I first heard them. I respect your opinion, fragile but I certainly dont share it. It was not the end of Genesis, it was actually the beginning in the eyes of most people. It may have been the start of their decline as a prog rock band, but even then ATTWT is a strong prog album, which cleverly condesnses all the emotion, melody and power found in more epic length Genesis works, into a nore concise form. A song does not have to be 15 minutes long to be good. Neither is it a rule that prog songs must focus on Greek mythology, Hermaphrodites or Sci Fi to be worthy of the prog tag. There are actually only two love songs on ATTWT, and yes they do happen to be the weakest tracks musically, but generally I'd say there are some stronger moments than on WAW and Duke. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: ldlanberg
Date Posted: July 04 2006 at 01:15
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ATTW is not the trash that Peter Gabriel flower-heads claim it is. It cuts right-to-the-chase, not having any useless interludes. But damn...things like "Down and Out" and "Deep in the Motherlode" would have been so much better if Banks was not trying to dominate the sound -- which he did. I honestly believe Banks was trying to drown-out Collins, for egotistical reasons. Notice that Tony didn't pull that stuff on Trespass (before Collins joined). And it got worse after Gabriel left. Its like the harder Phil played, the moooore Banks cranked up his volume.------------- LDL |
Posted By: rupert
Date Posted: July 04 2006 at 12:27
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Can't agree, Idlanberg, I don't think it had to do anything with Phil Collins, it was rather the way Tony Banks wanted the songs to sound like during that particular time. Perhaps now he's change this or that, who knows ? I'm happy with it all the way it is... ah... I forgot to mention "The Lady lies" and "Snowbound"... what great songs... this thread really made me put on my japanese-vynil-cover-replica-cd-remaster of ATTWT again, thank you so much
------------- ...I'm a musician/singer/songwriter, visit me on www.reverbnation.com/rupertlenz and there you can choose from 125 recordings you can listen to ( for free ) if you're not limited to prog-rock ! |
Posted By: daz2112
Date Posted: July 04 2006 at 14:58
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It's a very good album!! ------------- In the constellation of cygnus,There lurks a mysterious force...The black hole |
Posted By: Fragile
Date Posted: July 04 2006 at 19:55
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if (top.location == location){document.write(" So this thread is still going I am amazed at how often it can be regurgitated on here.
Getting married and having children doesn't make me or didn't make me all lovey dovey and doesn't allow me to like grossly inferior music.For all those who like Collin's Genesis (sorry Blacksword) then I hope you all enjoyed the ride into mediocrity.It wa a collective ride of the then there were three buddies and it didn't suit my pallate one little bit.To compare Buster with Gabriel is like comparing spam fritters with a fillet steak.Gabriel's goldfish can sing better.
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Posted By: mgallard
Date Posted: July 04 2006 at 20:15
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Regarding the bitter members, I rest my case . Mediocrity? Ha! No comments needed as we all can see your opinion is the "law". Why compare Buster? Face Value is a much better album than most Gabriel has made, though I concede that PG4 or 3 are better, and then SO is very much like most Genesis or solo releases of the time, very pop and good too despite that, as is the case of the others too. Mogens |
Posted By: Fragile
Date Posted: July 04 2006 at 20:36
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if (top.location == location){document.write(" Amigo. I think you like pop music; Face value, better than any Gabriel solo work?? Your'e having a serious laugh"
Collins is monotoned.He cannot change his voice.His voice is ordiI am the law!! No I don't think so but, been listening to rock and prog for 36 years now;' I know what I like and I like what I know.
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Posted By: mgallard
Date Posted: July 04 2006 at 20:39
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Yes, I like pop, rock, prog, whatever's good, not being prog doesn't make it bad, amiga. Mogens |
Posted By: Fragile
Date Posted: July 04 2006 at 20:49
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if (top.location == location){document.write(" perdoname para mi pobre espanol
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Posted By: mgallard
Date Posted: July 04 2006 at 22:33
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I forgive you, I'm such a nice guy . Anyway, no matter what you say, ATTW3 rocks and is an excellent album, plus F.Y.F.M. is an excellent way to end the album, a positive song, less sombre and dark as the rest of the songs are, had it not been there... we'd all be even more depressed than you (a joke, a joke, I couldn't resist... sorry McAmigo).Mogens |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: July 05 2006 at 02:35
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Some people just assume ATTWT is a pop album because it has short tracks.It only has one pop track in fact. ATTWT is an album that works fine.I still feel Genesis were trying to create something worth listening to.It was only when FYFM became a hit that they realised there was an opportunity to be more 'poppy' and get more girls coming to their concerts that their attitude started to change.They joined the MTV generation and sold squillions of albums.Can't blame them I suppose!
BTW The length of Genesis albums is interesting.Off the top of my head most of their seventies albums were 50-55 minutes long.Abacab struggled to get to 40 minutes even though the material was mostly filler! They stopped taking the making of an album seriously.Another symptom of joining the MTV generation I guess.
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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: July 05 2006 at 06:38
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^ What happened to Genesis after 1978 could have been very different. Producer David Hentschell, hated 'FYFM' and didn't want it on the album. He believed it to be too weak for any Genesis album. They almost listened to him! I wish they had, although I've grown to tolerate the song, after hating it for so many years.. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Liquid Len
Date Posted: July 05 2006 at 08:49
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I'm their biggest fan (no really I am) but I don't think that TTWT is very good at all.
Sure it's better that WaW but what isn't? That's an horrible album ruined by Banks' keyboards.
From Trespass to ToTT are perfect!
------------- Can you tell me where my country lies? |