Compare and contrast McLaughlin & Holdsworth - Progressive Rock Music Forum

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oracus

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Posted: June 02 2006 at 00:49

They are both playing more than virtuosic but i prefer Allan's sound

Garion81

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Posted: June 02 2006 at 00:58

JrKASperov wrote:

McLaughlin is really uninnovative when improvising, except on acoustic. And Holdsworth cheats by hammeronning lots of his notes, which makes him sound playing faster than he can.

My vote goes to....

DiMeola. Tongue

Really now? I saw John M on tour in 1975 with Jeff Beck on his Blow By Blow tour. (This would have been Mahavishnu's Vision of Emerald Beyond with Jean Luc Ponty and Michael Walden.) John came out at the end of Becks set and with Ritchie Blackmore sitting in the the third row proceeded to trades chops on a blues song with the blues master Beck. At one point after this incredible chop McLaughlin pulled off Beck threw his hands in the air and started playing chords.

As for Alan I love his work. If anything he is too picky about what he does. I wish he would play live more often.

Edited by Garion81 - June 02 2006 at 01:00

"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?"

Empathy

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Posted: June 02 2006 at 01:01

^ WOW. Sounds like an amazing show!

Pure Brilliance:

pero

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Posted: June 02 2006 at 04:25

I like them both.

Holdswort is fantastic guitarist. I like his work with Gong, Brufford and Larry Coryell.

His solo works are not my cup of tee. Technically perfect but a bit clinical and cold.

On the other hand McLaughlin is one of the greatest as a guitarist and composer.

His solo albums are exceptional (especially "Extrapolation and Electric guitarist).

His work with Miles Davis Mahavishnu orchestra and Shakti and a lot of other musicians is milestone of jazz/rock.

Above mentioned Dimeola is no match to Holdswort and McLaughlin, his best moments was as a member of Return to forever with Corea, White and Stanley Clarke

Visitor13

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Posted: June 02 2006 at 04:36

Holdsworth by a mile. Probably the best phrasing in rock. DEFINITELY NOT clinical or cold. Technical doesn't equal cold, or else Fred Durst would be the most emotional player ever.

Most of the electric stuff I heard by McLaughlin and DiMeola was quite boring, self-indulgent and show-offy (is that an adjective?) really, definitely more so than Petrucci, for example. They're much better on acoustic, IMO.

pero

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Posted: June 02 2006 at 04:50

Visitor13 wrote:

Holdsworth by a mile. Probably the best phrasing in rock. DEFINITELY NOT clinical or cold. Technical doesn't equal cold, or else Fred Durst would be the most emotional player ever.

You obviously didn't heard much of McLaughlin solo albums, Mahavishnu orchestra and Shakti.

McLaughlin boring. Good joke

Visitor13

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Posted: June 02 2006 at 04:52

pero wrote:

You obviously didn't heard much of McLaughlin solo albums, Mahavishnu orchestra and Shakti.

McLaughlin boring. Good joke

His playing with Santana was really weak. Mahavishnu... better, but definitely the weakest link in the band.

Edited by Visitor13 - June 02 2006 at 04:56

pero

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Posted: June 02 2006 at 05:10

His playing with Santana was really weak. Mahavishnu... better, but definitely the weakest link in the band.

[/QUOTE]

What are you talking about???? Weakeast link ???

Write of the bands and musitians you know better and like.

Visitor13

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Posted: June 02 2006 at 05:14

^ I see I've struck a nerve

S Lang

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Posted: June 02 2006 at 06:31

Holdsworth has always played better when he was hired by Tony Williams, Gong, Jean-Luc Ponty, Bill Bruford, but on his own his technical prowess left me cold and frankly - bored. Once I did walk out of his live performance, for it was hard to access. I don't mean that it was mediocre, only less than exciting, enjoyable.

McLaughlin on the other hand has not only invented genres, but played his guitar with the intensity that is yet to be surpassed.

DiMeola? He is a poor second to either of them. On record he plays fantastic, I just wonder how many takes it took for him? I saw him perform live and on that experience he wouldn't get a chance to play for free at a Spanish Cafe with 20 seats...

wolf0621

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Posted: June 02 2006 at 07:06

Visitor13 wrote:

pero wrote:

You obviously didn't heard much of McLaughlin solo albums, Mahavishnu orchestra and Shakti.

McLaughlin boring. Good joke

His playing with Santana was really weak. Mahavishnu... better, but definitely the weakest link in the band.

That "weakest link" could play in my band any time (or in just about any other band in the world)...Watch some of the Orchestra videos, it's clear who the band's leader is...Also wrote most of the material...I saw J. McLaughlin on tour in the early '80's, in a 2,000-seat theater, with one of the Labeque sisters on piano. He came out with his classical nylon-string, sat on a stool at the front of the stage, crossed his legs & for the next 1 &1/2 hours proceeded to blow everyone in the place away with his fingerpicking style. I was not more than 30-40 feet away & I swear he never even came close to breaking a sweat, just had those intense expressions on his face to match the music. You would have thought it was just another practice session...One of the few players who can really play anything well, I'm waiting for his first rap song...

Visitor13

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Posted: June 02 2006 at 08:07

wolf0621 wrote:

Visitor13 wrote:

pero wrote:

You obviously didn't heard much of McLaughlin solo albums, Mahavishnu orchestra and Shakti.

McLaughlin boring. Good joke

His playing with Santana was really weak. Mahavishnu... better, but definitely the weakest link in the band.

That "weakest link" could play in my band any time (or in just about any other band in the world)...Watch some of the Orchestra videos, it's clear who the band's leader is...Also wrote most of the material...I saw J. McLaughlin on tour in the early '80's, in a 2,000-seat theater, with one of the Labeque sisters on piano. He came out with his classical nylon-string, sat on a stool at the front of the stage, crossed his legs & for the next 1 &1/2 hours proceeded to blow everyone in the place away with his fingerpicking style. I was not more than 30-40 feet away & I swear he never even came close to breaking a sweat, just had those intense expressions on his face to match the music. You would have thought it was just another practice session...One of the few players who can really play anything well, I'm waiting for his first rap song...

Ah, see, there's the key word. He is fantastic on acoustic/classical - maybe because it's more challenging to play one than an e-guitar, and therefore his approach has to be more thoughtful? Anyway, I stand by what I wrote about his electric playing. I might yet change my mind, but I've given it more than enough listens, and don't put listening to it again as a any priority.

wolf0621

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Posted: June 02 2006 at 09:16

Mahavishnu is not for everyone...You mentioned Petrucci earlier, his stuff doesn't particularly interest me. Go figure!

Visitor13

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Posted: June 02 2006 at 10:03

^ I love Mahavishnu... for Hammer, Goodman, Laird and Cobham.

wolf0621

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Posted: June 02 2006 at 10:20

Visitor13 wrote:

^ I love Mahavishnu... for Hammer, Goodman, Laird and Cobham.

That's not the whole band, so sounds like you love parts of Mahavishnu, not the whole group...Wonder what those 4 would have sounded like w/McLaughlin removed & replaced by Petrucci? Or Holdsworth? Or DiMeola? Still (as) ground-breaking? Still the single most influential fusion band of all time? Maybe...

pero

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Posted: June 02 2006 at 14:00

I was on Mclaughlin concerts 3 time.

First time it was Mahavishnu orchestra with Billy Cobham, but without Hammer.

Second time was Shakti with Shankar on violin. I was sitting in the first row 3 meters from Mclughlin. It was expirience I will never forghet.

Third time it was acoustic concert with Larry Coryell and Paco the Lucia. It was one of the best concerts for me, and for shure acoustic one. Paco de Lucia was amazing too, maybe even better than Mclauglin, but there is only one Paco.

wolf0621

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Posted: June 02 2006 at 18:16

Compare & Contrast you say? Everyone missed the obvious similarities that stare you in the face...Both last names contain 10 letters each! Also, both first names contain 4 letters each (I always misspell "Alan", so there you go)...Take that, all you numerologists out there!

DaleHauskins View Drop Down

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Posted: June 02 2006 at 20:44

The ONLY thing John and my old drinking mate Allan have in common and roots are Bradford,England and the late amazing drummer Tony Williams.

Dale Hauskins:Los Angeles Californian guitarist(Member of Switzerland progressive rock band FLAME DREAM) http://www.myspace.com/dalehauskins http://www.progressiveworld.net/flamedream2.html

Edited by Guitsy - June 02 2006 at 20:46