Compare and contrast McLaughlin & Holdsworth
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Topic: Compare and contrast McLaughlin & Holdsworth
Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Subject: Compare and contrast McLaughlin & Holdsworth
Date Posted: June 01 2006 at 11:55
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Discuss from a layman`s viewpoint. Both are fusion guitar Gods who originated from the UK. I love em both but I would give the edge to Mclaughlin. His playing is more passionate while Holdsworth can get so technical that his music becomes unlistenable at times. I don`t think these guys have ever played together either. Anybody? ------------- |
Replies:
Posted By: wolf0621
Date Posted: June 01 2006 at 12:26
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I definitely prefer McLaughlin, but also like AH a lot. Here's an interesting article, an interview with both of them for Guitar Player magazine, re: their use of synths:
http://www.guitarplayer.com/story.asp?sectioncode=4&storycode=10743&featurecode=49 - http://www.guitarplayer.com/story.asp?sectioncode=4&storycode=10743&featurecode=49
Quote of note: "MCLAUGHLIN: Yes! Your work on the SynthAxe is nothing short of phenomenal in my opinion. I tried to play one once but I just floundered like a beached whale—and it was a shame because I would like to have been able to get a handle on it. Allan, I’m not flattering you, but you are the standard-bearer on that instrument."
Of course their direct connection is via Tony Williams' Lifetime project, where Holdsworth was hired by Williams as McLaughlin's replacement (in "The New Tony Williams Lifetime") in 1975... |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: June 01 2006 at 12:27
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oh this one is easy... both leave my jaw on the floor.... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Phil
Date Posted: June 01 2006 at 12:47
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wolf0621 wrote:Posted By: memowakeman
Date Posted: June 01 2006 at 13:03
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McLauglhin is my choice here, his work with Shatki is amazing.... freaks me out! ------------- Follow me on twitter @memowakeman |
Posted By: Chris_Kemp
Date Posted: June 01 2006 at 13:03
I definitely prefer AH, but also like McLaughlin a lot.  ------------- "That's not your face...it's mine! IT'S MINE!! |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: June 01 2006 at 13:47
 Those who think that Petrucci is God's gift to guitar playing should get an earful of those two... Perhaps there's still time for them to see the light!  |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: June 01 2006 at 14:00
hahahha.... number one reason why I couldln't get into Dream Theater... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Empathy
Date Posted: June 01 2006 at 14:11
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They're both pretty astonishing. I do find that McLaughlin can be a tad
sloppy at times, and Holdsworth leaves me a bit cold occasionally. Holdsworth has one of the most insane legato techniques I've ever seen, and McLaughlin plays with such intensity, I'm always afraid he's going to snap something! ------------- Pure Brilliance: 
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Posted By: JrKASperov
Date Posted: June 01 2006 at 14:47
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McLaughlin is really uninnovative when improvising, except on acoustic. And Holdsworth cheats by hammeronning lots of his notes, which makes him sound playing faster than he can. My vote goes to.... DiMeola.  ------------- Epic. |
Posted By: wolf0621
Date Posted: June 01 2006 at 15:09
Hmmm...DiMeola cheats by moving his pick really fast, and is uninnovative by drawing on Spanish musical influences that date back hundreds of years...The thread was about comparing/contrasting McLaughlin & Holdsworth, not comparing them to others...
 Since when is using hammer-ons & pull-offs considered to be cheating? I guess it would be if AH were paid by the note. In that case, EVH would have to be the biggest cheater in your book, eh?
 Ooops, just used another comparison! |
Posted By: Hierophant
Date Posted: June 01 2006 at 16:11
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There is no such thing as cheating in music. This statement : "And Holdsworth cheats by hammeronning lots of his notes, which makes him sound playing faster than he can." makes no sense. If he is playing fast then he obviously can and is playing fast... How exactly is he "deceiving" anyone if what you are hearing is what he is playing? 
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Posted By: Empathy
Date Posted: June 01 2006 at 16:20
Wow, you actually give DeepPhreeze a run for his money in "Confrontational Responses 101".  FWIW, I agree with you in that legato is not "cheating"! ------------- Pure Brilliance:
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Posted By: YYZed
Date Posted: June 01 2006 at 16:22
I agree 100%. How any technique employed by a human musician on a musical instrument could be cheating is beyond me. Personally I'm split between the two styles. McLaughlin reminds me of a Jazzier and more technical Jimmy Page, as his playing is sloppy at times, likely on purpose. Usually sounds great and is very powerful. He is more of a straight ahead rock guitar player (when playing electic) than Holdsworth is. Holdsworth's legato phrases are awesome. He is obviously very inspired by jazz horn players that have come before him, especially John Colatrane and his "sheets of sound" style. The styles are both cool, and both players are amazing. Also, props for Holdsworth's SynthAxe! ------------- 
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Posted By: Empathy
Date Posted: June 01 2006 at 16:45
Have you ever had an opportunity to play one? I've heard it takes some getting used to (slight understatement) ------------- Pure Brilliance:
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Posted By: wolf0621
Date Posted: June 01 2006 at 16:59
But softened by clever usage of strategically-placed emoticons!
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Posted By: wolf0621
Date Posted: June 01 2006 at 17:07
I had the good fortune to try one out, had no clue...The music store trying to sell it also had no one who was familiar with it, but it definitely drew a lot of stares (in the middle of the store)...I don't think they ever actually sold it, just shipped it off to a different store in their chain. From what I recall, it came with a boat-load of processing gear that was required, like a full rack's worth...It also had a tag on it that announced "previously owned by..." Can't recall the owner though, might have been Lee Ritenour...
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Posted By: Empathy
Date Posted: June 01 2006 at 17:17
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Were you suddenly able to fret those ridiculous spider-like chords that Allan's famous for?
------------- Pure Brilliance:
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Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: June 01 2006 at 17:27
| When we get this attempted comparison, I'm reminded that pointlessness of these types of threads. Simply nobody can provide a critical analysis explaining why one is better than other, with resorting to technical lnaguage beyong most of us. Otherwise it is personal opinions. Both brilliant both from Yorkshire - not just England. |
Posted By: Bj-1
Date Posted: June 01 2006 at 18:27
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I like Holdsworth more though McLaughlin is great too! ------------- RIO/AVANT/ZEUHL - The best thing you can get with yer pants on! |
Posted By: oracus
Date Posted: June 02 2006 at 00:49
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They are both playing more than virtuosic but i prefer Allan's sound ------------- 
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Posted By: Garion81
Date Posted: June 02 2006 at 00:58
Really now? I saw John M on tour in 1975 with Jeff Beck on his Blow By Blow tour. (This would have been Mahavishnu's Vision of Emerald Beyond with Jean Luc Ponty and Michael Walden.) John came out at the end of Becks set and with Ritchie Blackmore sitting in the the third row proceeded to trades chops on a blues song with the blues master Beck. At one point after this incredible chop McLaughlin pulled off Beck threw his hands in the air and started playing chords.
As for Alan I love his work. If anything he is too picky about what he does. I wish he would play live more often.
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"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?" |
Posted By: Empathy
Date Posted: June 02 2006 at 01:01
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^ WOW. Sounds like an amazing show!
------------- Pure Brilliance:
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Posted By: pero
Date Posted: June 02 2006 at 04:25
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I like them both.
Holdswort is fantastic guitarist. I like his work with Gong, Brufford and Larry Coryell.
His solo works are not my cup of tee. Technically perfect but a bit clinical and cold.
On the other hand McLaughlin is one of the greatest as a guitarist and composer.
His solo albums are exceptional (especially "Extrapolation and Electric guitarist).
His work with Miles Davis Mahavishnu orchestra and Shakti and a lot of other musicians is milestone of jazz/rock.
Above mentioned Dimeola is no match to Holdswort and McLaughlin, his best moments was as a member of Return to forever with Corea, White and Stanley Clarke
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Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: June 02 2006 at 04:36
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Holdsworth by a mile. Probably the best phrasing in rock. DEFINITELY NOT clinical or cold. Technical doesn't equal cold, or else Fred Durst would be the most emotional player ever.
Most of the electric stuff I heard by McLaughlin and DiMeola was quite boring, self-indulgent and show-offy (is that an adjective?) really, definitely more so than Petrucci, for example. They're much better on acoustic, IMO.
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Posted By: pero
Date Posted: June 02 2006 at 04:50
You obviously didn't heard much of McLaughlin solo albums, Mahavishnu orchestra and Shakti.
McLaughlin boring. Good joke
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Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: June 02 2006 at 04:52
His playing with Santana was really weak. Mahavishnu... better, but definitely the weakest link in the band.
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Posted By: pero
Date Posted: June 02 2006 at 05:10
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His playing with Santana was really weak. Mahavishnu... better, but definitely the weakest link in the band. [/QUOTE]
What are you talking about???? Weakeast link ???
 Write of the bands and musitians you know better and like.
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Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: June 02 2006 at 05:14
^ I see I've struck a nerve
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Posted By: S Lang
Date Posted: June 02 2006 at 06:31
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Holdsworth has always played better when he was hired by Tony Williams, Gong, Jean-Luc Ponty, Bill Bruford, but on his own his technical prowess left me cold and frankly - bored. Once I did walk out of his live performance, for it was hard to access. I don't mean that it was mediocre, only less than exciting, enjoyable.
McLaughlin on the other hand has not only invented genres, but played his guitar with the intensity that is yet to be surpassed.
DiMeola? He is a poor second to either of them. On record he plays fantastic, I just wonder how many takes it took for him? I saw him perform live and on that experience he wouldn't get a chance to play for free at a Spanish Cafe with 20 seats...
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Posted By: wolf0621
Date Posted: June 02 2006 at 07:06
That "weakest link" could play in my band any time (or in just about any other band in the world)...Watch some of the Orchestra videos, it's clear who the band's leader is...Also wrote most of the material...I saw J. McLaughlin on tour in the early '80's, in a 2,000-seat theater, with one of the Labeque sisters on piano. He came out with his classical nylon-string, sat on a stool at the front of the stage, crossed his legs & for the next 1 &1/2 hours proceeded to blow everyone in the place away with his fingerpicking style. I was not more than 30-40 feet away & I swear he never even came close to breaking a sweat, just had those intense expressions on his face to match the music. You would have thought it was just another practice session...One of the few players who can really play anything well, I'm waiting for his first rap song...
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Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: June 02 2006 at 08:07
Ah, see, there's the key word. He is fantastic on acoustic/classical - maybe because it's more challenging to play one than an e-guitar, and therefore his approach has to be more thoughtful? Anyway, I stand by what I wrote about his electric playing. I might yet change my mind, but I've given it more than enough listens, and don't put listening to it again as a any priority.
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Posted By: wolf0621
Date Posted: June 02 2006 at 09:16
Mahavishnu is not for everyone...You mentioned Petrucci earlier, his stuff doesn't particularly interest me. Go figure!
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Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: June 02 2006 at 10:03
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^ I love Mahavishnu... for Hammer, Goodman, Laird and Cobham |
Posted By: wolf0621
Date Posted: June 02 2006 at 10:20
That's not the whole band, so sounds like you love parts of Mahavishnu, not the whole group
 ...Wonder what those 4 would have sounded like w/McLaughlin removed & replaced by Petrucci? Or Holdsworth? Or DiMeola? Still (as) ground-breaking? Still the single most influential fusion band of all time? Maybe... |
Posted By: pero
Date Posted: June 02 2006 at 14:00
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I was on Mclaughlin concerts 3 time.
First time it was Mahavishnu orchestra with Billy Cobham, but without Hammer.
Second time was Shakti with Shankar on violin. I was sitting in the first row 3 meters from Mclughlin. It was expirience I will never forghet.
Third time it was acoustic concert with Larry Coryell and Paco the Lucia. It was one of the best concerts for me, and for shure acoustic one. Paco de Lucia was amazing too, maybe even better than Mclauglin, but there is only one Paco.
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Posted By: wolf0621
Date Posted: June 02 2006 at 18:16
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Compare & Contrast you say? Everyone missed the obvious similarities that stare you in the face...Both last names contain 10 letters each! Also, both first names contain 4 letters each (I always misspell "Alan", so there you go)...Take that, all you numerologists out there!
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Posted By: DaleHauskins
Date Posted: June 02 2006 at 20:44
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The ONLY thing John and my old drinking mate Allan have in common and roots are Bradford,England and the late amazing drummer Tony Williams.
Dale Hauskins:Los Angeles Californian guitarist(Member of Switzerland progressive rock band FLAME DREAM) http://www.myspace.com/dalehauskins - http://www.myspace.com/dalehauskins http://www.progressiveworld.net/flamedream2.html - http://www.progressiveworld.net/flamedream2.html |