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wolf0621
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 07 2006 Status: Offline Points: 264 |
Posted: May 24 2006 at 19:08 |
Hmmm...To be honest, I'm definitely leaning towards multi-channel music in the near future. Like I said, the demos I've heard have been astounding, it mostly rides on the decoding, steering logic (of the decoder/processor) & the mastering of the source material, plus proper setup of the listening environment.
Most demos tend to be done using acoustic material, and with good reason. Most surround modes tend to sound more natural with wood & woodwind instruments. Certain vocals can also benefit...I listened to Friday Night In San Francisco w/McLaughlin, deLucia & Di Meola one time for about 2 hours straight (I guess I played it all the way through a few times) in an upscale electronics store near me, on a system w/7 perfectly balanced Mirage speakers, driven by a 250-watt x 5 channel Parasound Halo amp, complemented by a 2nd Halo stereo amp (for 7 channels total), plus a Sunfire True subwoofer (2,700 watts, 116db SPL, basically flat down to 16hz).
At the heart of the setup was the Meridian G68 surround sound processor. Even though the cd was mastered in stereo, the Meridian's surround modes made it sound as though it was mastered in 7 channels...I can honestly say that I've never heard anything better, closed my eyes & I was at the live show...
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oliverstoned
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 26 2004 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 6308 |
Posted: May 25 2006 at 02:57 |
So you have not heard tubes yet!
Edited by oliverstoned - May 25 2006 at 02:58 |
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wolf0621
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 07 2006 Status: Offline Points: 264 |
Posted: May 25 2006 at 07:05 |
I prefer not to "hear" tubes...I know that many audiophiles swear by tube equipment but I'm not one of them...To me, an amplifier needs to be neutral, its job is to take a signal & multiply it without adding anything to the original. Tube fans like the "warmth", which to me is another form of distortion. Also have issues with the premium price tag of tube equipment & reliability (ie, periodically replacing tubes).
The reason why tubes are still largely preferred for guitar amps is not for the clean power, but due to the way tube distortion breaks up & again that warm sound. I'm not looking for either one in my home audio amplifier...I want it to reproduce a recording as cleanly as possible with nothing new added to that signal...
And yes, I have heard some high-end tube equipment (at the same store where I auditioned the Meridian stuff), also spent some time with some of the staff discussing the pros & cons of various technologies...Some of them also swore by tube amps, some didn't...Everyone's got their preferences...
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oliverstoned
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 26 2004 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 6308 |
Posted: May 25 2006 at 08:59 |
"an amplifier needs to be neutral, its job is to take a signal & multiply it without adding anything to the original. Tube fans like the "warmth", which to me is another form of distortion. Also have issues with the premium price tag of tube equipment & reliability (ie, periodically replacing tubes)."
There you have never heard what a well driven tube amp can makes; good tube is perfectly neutral and goes far better in the highs than any solid state. It has nothing to do with any "extra warmth". A 20 000€ Cello Reference II (top solidstate) can't even compete with a 1000€ Jolida in term of musicality -and so pleasure and emotion- and you'll hear things in the highs that you'll never hear with ANY solidstate. Solid state has its quality in the low, babies like these Goldmund 9.4 ones are better in the low (quicker, more dynamic and impact) than any tube amp. So the answer is biamplification with top solidstate in the low and top tube in the highs. I know some solidstates ones which also work nice in the highs. But when you put a good tube (-and well driven/powered/filtered/wired, etc..) amp besides, there's no comparison. Solidstate distors less than tube on the paper, but actually it's the contrary. It's extremely harsh and makes ham rape with highs when you compare. (it can be explained by the pair/unpair's harmonics theory). You quoted Parasound, yes it's not bad, but put a Jolida or a CJ besides and you'll understand...every guy who tried was convinced. So the royal way is the bi-amp with tubes in the highs and good solid state in the low. There's no rule concerning preamps which can be as well: tube, transistor or hybrid. The best preamp in the world may be currently a solid state one, the "Mark Levinson 32 reference". BUT, if you have to have only one integrated amp, it must be TUBE. The cheap combination is a Jolida in integrated mode with a 38 cm sub (feat a good 200W solistate for bottom low/extreme low).The sub has the surprising advantage to enhance highs as well as low, image, dynamic. To conclude: TUBES RULES, one time for all!! Edited by oliverstoned - May 25 2006 at 09:22 |
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wolf0621
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 07 2006 Status: Offline Points: 264 |
Posted: May 25 2006 at 18:36 |
An article supporting the opinions you're expressing:
http://www.soundstage.com/noisy04.htm (from 1996)
See here re: the audible & measurable differences between tube & solid state gear:
Ultimately, the best gauge to compare any audio equipment's relative sound is via true double-blind tests, where neither the judges or the testers know or can identify which gear is which, and what's playing at any point in time, or at least a single-blind approach with the tester's ability to switch components but not able to directly identify either one...Here's some interesting data:
http://www.epinions.com/content_3726614660 (this is relative to guitar amps but can also be applied to home audio components as well...)
Also, see here:
Most of the truly scientifically-conducted (single or double-blind) tests that I've read about that directly compared tube amps to solid state either concluded that there was no statistically significant indication that the testers could consistently identify the components correctly, or that the test results were inconclusive (ie within the margins of chance or guessing)...Now that doesn't necessarily mean that you can't hear the difference. After all, sound is very subjective...
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oliverstoned
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 26 2004 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 6308 |
Posted: May 26 2006 at 02:09 |
Dont need blind tests...just try.
Indeed, Wikipedia describes well tube's sound. More matter, more air, more precense, it's far beyond in the highs (i began to love violin as soon as i get my tube amp). But solidstate technology has its qualities, in the low/extreme low and in preamplification. Many combinations are possible, as explains your soundstage article (hybrid preamp, hybrid integrated amp). BTW, here's a nice cheap musical french hybrid integrated amp: Kora explorer 90SI But if you want musicality, tube is needed in the highs. And if you have to have only one amp, it must be tube or hybrid. Edited by oliverstoned - May 26 2006 at 08:48 |
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21156 |
Posted: May 26 2006 at 08:28 |
Wait a second ... forgot that I'm not supposed to be posting here. |
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oliverstoned
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 26 2004 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 6308 |
Posted: May 26 2006 at 08:47 |
Yes, so keep on!
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oliverstoned
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 26 2004 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 6308 |
Posted: May 26 2006 at 08:55 |
And i even not alluded to the fact that your ideal system is based on a (cheap) digital source!
(cheap) digital source + pure solidstate amplification can't give a musical result. Digital harshness + solidstate harshness is too much to stand! |
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