| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
crimson thing 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 28 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 848
|
 Topic: ITCotCK - concept or noncept?
Posted: May 24 2006 at 11:41 |
Why do people routinely refer to "In The Court Of The Crimson King" as a concept album ? I see no concept! It's different, sure, from the other 1969 releases, but that doesn't make it a concept album. If you disagree, would you be kind enough to let me know what you think the concept actually is? 
|
 |
mystic fred
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 13 2006
Location: Londinium
Status: Offline
Points: 4252
|
Posted: May 24 2006 at 11:59 |
i'm not absolutely sure myself! perhaps there is a clue here....
|
 Prog Archives Tour Van 
|
|
akin
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 06 2004
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 976
|
Posted: May 24 2006 at 12:04 |
|
For me no way
|
|
crimson thing
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 28 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 848
|
Posted: May 24 2006 at 12:11 |
 mystic fred wrote:
i'm not absolutely sure myself! perhaps there is a clue here....
|
Thanks for the link.
I read it.
Well, I tried to read it.
This is really my point. I mean, "The Wall" is a concept album, right? About alienation, and internalisation of feelings & ..er..a wall. One doesn't need a three year research grant just to "get it".
ITCotCK is a great album - a groundbreaking album. Some great songs (and Moonchild  ); great cover art; but not a concept in sight.......ok, some metaphysical stuff about The Crimson King aka lucifer - but only on one track. Nothing I see connects the tracks.....
|
|
Padraic
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169
|
Posted: May 24 2006 at 12:22 |
crimson thing wrote:
Why do people routinely refer to "In The Court Of
The Crimson King" as a concept album ? I see no concept! It's
different, sure, from the other 1969 releases, but that doesn't make it
a concept album. If you disagree, would you be kind enough to let me
know what you think the concept actually is? |
I've actually never heard it described as a concept album. In any case, I don't see any unification between the tracks.
|
|
Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
|
Posted: May 24 2006 at 12:35 |
|
|
|
|
|
FragileDT
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: June 20 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1485
|
Posted: May 24 2006 at 12:39 |
mystic fred wrote:
i'm not absolutely sure myself! perhaps there is a clue here....
|
Very interesting. Thanks for the link! 
|
|
One likes to believe
In the freedom of music
But glittering prizes
And endless Compromises
Shatter the illusion
Of integrity
|
|
Igha
Forum Groupie
Joined: January 08 2006
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 60
|
Posted: May 24 2006 at 12:48 |
|
No way
There isn't any connection between songs. Other album I wonder why everybody calls Conceptual is Sgt Pepper. Only the first two songs are tied together, then the idea of the fictional band just...dissapears...The same goes to SEBTP, not all the songs form a concept.
|
|
My words are spiders upon the page,they spin out faith, hope and reason but are they meet and just, or only dust gathering about my chair?
|
|
Raff
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 29 2005
Location: None
Status: Offline
Points: 24429
|
Posted: May 24 2006 at 13:00 |
Concept? What concept?  As far as I know, KC have never released any concept albums. ITCOTCK is a masterpiece, but the five songs on it are quite unrelated to each other - unless one wants to find a connection at all costs...
|
|
Ghandi 2
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 17 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1494
|
Posted: May 24 2006 at 13:02 |
Woah. I read part of that, and they are very clearly finding something which is not there. No, " The wall on which the prophets wrote/ Is cracking at the seams" is NOT a reference to Frederick II's breakdown and obscure writings, it's a reference (or perhaps ripoff) of "The Sound of Silence" by Simon and Garfunkel. I quote "the words of the prophets/Are written on the subway walls" Tell me: do you think it is more likely that Sinfeld was referencing this or a nearly unknown king? People haven't heard of Frederick II, even pretentious prog artists aren't going to make references to his life!
"Will no one lay the laurel wreath/As silence drowns the screams" That site says that it has to do with Frederick's horrific experiment with the babies. (man, Frederick was an idiot) But once again, looking more simply, isn't it more likely that he's simply taking about the aftermath of a nuclear war, since that is what the song is actually about!
|
|
Abstrakt
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 18 2005
Location: Soundgarden
Status: Offline
Points: 18292
|
Posted: May 24 2006 at 13:07 |
|
Yes, but don't ask me what it's about
|
|
crimson thing
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 28 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 848
|
Posted: May 24 2006 at 13:33 |
Abstrakt wrote:
Yes, but don't ask me what it's about |
Igor - fetch the thumbscrews !!!
|
|
chamberry
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 24 2005
Location: Puerto Rico
Status: Offline
Points: 9008
|
Posted: May 24 2006 at 13:58 |
Ghost Rider wrote:
Concept? What concept? As far as I know, KC have never released any concept albums. ITCOTCK is a masterpiece, but the five songs on it are quite unrelated to each other - unless one wants to find a connection at all costs...
|
The concept is 4 albums long (more like a loose concept but still) , the Sinfield era. It talks about Frederik II who is the Crimson King, at least the first one. Lizard talks about Price Rupert who supossedly is Frederik's reincarnation or something. The first album ITCOTCK represents the sun The second ITWOP represents the water The third Lizard the earth And Island i don't quite now yet since I havent read it yet. Very interesting. You would think that Sinfiel writes gibberish like in Cat Food or 21st chizoid man but they actually tell something.
Edited by chamberry - May 24 2006 at 14:22
|
|
|
|
GoldenSpiral
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3839
|
Posted: May 24 2006 at 14:00 |
|
If being awesome can be considered a concept, then this album is one!
|
|
|
|
chamberry
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 24 2005
Location: Puerto Rico
Status: Offline
Points: 9008
|
Posted: May 24 2006 at 14:02 |
mystic fred wrote:
i'm not absolutely sure myself! perhaps there is a clue here....
|
I'll start a thread and include this link if you don't mind mystic fred for poeple to see 
|
|
|
|
crimson thing
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 28 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 848
|
Posted: May 24 2006 at 14:39 |
I'm not saying this just cos it disagrees with the thought behind my thread (honest!  ), but I do think there's more than a whiff of the Emperor's new clothes about the Sinfield ueber album concept.......One wonders why such explanations weren't adduced when the albums were first released.......maybe it's a very deadpan joke?
|
|
YYZed
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 03 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 282
|
Posted: May 24 2006 at 14:58 |
|
Until someone can prove to me it's not just a collection of songs, then it will remain, in my eyes, a "non-concept" album.
|
|
|
|
earlyprog
Special Collaborator
Neo / PSIKE / Heavy Teams
Joined: March 05 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 2157
|
Posted: May 24 2006 at 15:05 |
I think Mr. Fripp had a very clear concept of what the music should be about, which is why I continue to stress that ITCOTCK is the initiation of the true symphonic prog album.
But I don't think that's what you mean by it being a concept album, so no it's not a concept album
|
|
Man With Hat
Collaborator
Jazz-Rock/Fusion/Canterbury Team
Joined: March 12 2005
Location: Neurotica
Status: Offline
Points: 166183
|
Posted: May 24 2006 at 15:07 |
|
I don't think so, and i agree that i've never heard it called one either.
|
|
Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive
Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.
|
|
Vompatti
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: October 22 2005
Location: elsewhere
Status: Offline
Points: 67451
|
Posted: May 24 2006 at 15:12 |
|
I'm sure there is a concept, but I have no idea what it is.
|
|
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.
/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
ITCotCK - concept or noncept?
