ITCotCK - concept or noncept?
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Topic: ITCotCK - concept or noncept?
Posted By: crimson thing
Subject: ITCotCK - concept or noncept?
Date Posted: May 24 2006 at 11:41
Why do people routinely refer to "In The Court Of The Crimson King" as a concept album ? I see no concept! It's different, sure, from the other 1969 releases, but that doesn't make it a concept album. If you disagree, would you be kind enough to let me know what you think the concept actually is? 
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Replies:
Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: May 24 2006 at 11:59
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i'm not absolutely sure myself! perhaps there is a clue here....
http://www.songsouponsea.com/Promenade/Court.html - http://www.songsouponsea.com/Promenade/Court.html -------------  Prog Archives Tour Van 
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Posted By: akin
Date Posted: May 24 2006 at 12:04
| For me no way |
Posted By: crimson thing
Date Posted: May 24 2006 at 12:11
I read it.
Well, I tried to read it.
This is really my point. I mean, "The Wall" is a concept album, right? About alienation, and internalisation of feelings & ..er..a wall. One doesn't need a three year research grant just to "get it".
ITCotCK is a great album - a groundbreaking album. Some great songs (and Moonchild
 ); great cover art; but not a concept in sight.......ok, some metaphysical stuff about The Crimson King aka lucifer - but only on one track. Nothing I see connects the tracks..... |
mystic fred wrote:Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: May 24 2006 at 12:22
I've actually never heard it described as a concept album. In any case, I don't see any unification between the tracks. |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: May 24 2006 at 12:35
Neither have I. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: FragileDT
Date Posted: May 24 2006 at 12:39
Very interesting. Thanks for the link!  ------------- One likes to believe In the freedom of music But glittering prizes And endless Compromises Shatter the illusion Of integrity |
Posted By: Igha
Date Posted: May 24 2006 at 12:48
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No way There isn't any connection between songs. Other album I wonder why everybody calls Conceptual is Sgt Pepper. Only the first two songs are tied together, then the idea of the fictional band just...dissapears...The same goes to SEBTP, not all the songs form a concept. ------------- My words are spiders upon the page,they spin out faith, hope and reason but are they meet and just, or only dust gathering about my chair? |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: May 24 2006 at 13:00
Concept? What concept? As far as I know, KC have never released any concept albums. ITCOTCK is a masterpiece, but the five songs on it are quite unrelated to each other - unless one wants to find a connection at all costs...
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Posted By: Ghandi 2
Date Posted: May 24 2006 at 13:02
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Woah. I read part of that, and they are very clearly finding something which is not there. No, "The wall on which the prophets wrote/ Is cracking at the seams" is NOT a reference to Frederick II's breakdown and obscure writings, it's a reference (or perhaps ripoff) of "The Sound of Silence" by Simon and Garfunkel. I quote "the words of the prophets/Are written on the subway walls" Tell me: do you think it is more likely that Sinfeld was referencing this or a nearly unknown king? People haven't heard of Frederick II, even pretentious prog artists aren't going to make references to his life!
"Will no one lay the laurel wreath/As silence drowns the screams" That site says that it has to do with Frederick's horrific experiment with the babies. (man, Frederick was an idiot) But once again, looking more simply, isn't it more likely that he's simply taking about the aftermath of a nuclear war, since that is what the song is actually about! ------------- "Never forget that the human race with technology is like an alcoholic with a barrel of wine." Sleepytime Gorilla Museum: Because in their hearts, everyone secretly loves the Unabomber. |
Posted By: Abstrakt
Date Posted: May 24 2006 at 13:07
| Yes, but don't ask me what it's about |
Posted By: crimson thing
Date Posted: May 24 2006 at 13:33
Igor - fetch the thumbscrews !!!
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Posted By: chamberry
Date Posted: May 24 2006 at 13:58
The concept is 4 albums long (more like a loose concept but still) , the Sinfield era. It talks about Frederik II who is the Crimson King, at least the first one. Lizard talks about Price Rupert who supossedly is Frederik's reincarnation or something. The first album ITCOTCK represents the sun The second ITWOP represents the water The third Lizard the earth And Island i don't quite now yet since I havent read it yet. Very interesting. You would think that Sinfiel writes gibberish like in Cat Food or 21st chizoid man but they actually tell something. ------------- 
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Posted By: GoldenSpiral
Date Posted: May 24 2006 at 14:00
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If being awesome can be considered a concept, then this album is one!
------------- http://www.myspace.com/altaic" rel="nofollow - http://www.myspace.com/altaic ALTAIC "Oceans Down You'll Lie" coming soon |
Posted By: chamberry
Date Posted: May 24 2006 at 14:02
I'll start a thread and include this link if you don't mind mystic fred for poeple to see  -------------
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Posted By: crimson thing
Date Posted: May 24 2006 at 14:39
I'm not saying this just cos it disagrees with the thought behind my thread (honest!  ), but I do think there's more than a whiff of the Emperor's new clothes about the Sinfield ueber album concept.......One wonders why such explanations weren't adduced when the albums were first released.......maybe it's a very deadpan joke?
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Posted By: YYZed
Date Posted: May 24 2006 at 14:58
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Until someone can prove to me it's not just a collection of songs, then it will remain, in my eyes, a "non-concept" album.
------------- 
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Posted By: earlyprog
Date Posted: May 24 2006 at 15:05
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I think Mr. Fripp had a very clear concept of what the music should be about, which is why I continue to stress that ITCOTCK is the initiation of the true symphonic prog album.
But I don't think that's what you mean by it being a concept album, so no it's not a concept album
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Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: May 24 2006 at 15:07
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I don't think so, and i agree that i've never heard it called one either. ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: May 24 2006 at 15:12
| I'm sure there is a concept, but I have no idea what it is. |
Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: May 24 2006 at 15:22
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Its a semi concept!!! There is a "general" idea though out the album...but it´s not a story, its not The Wall...its more like The Dark side of the moon...I think
------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?" 
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Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: May 24 2006 at 16:24
be my guest! ------------- Prog Archives Tour Van
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Posted By: chamberry
Date Posted: May 24 2006 at 17:53
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=23771 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=23771 to proove you. -------------
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Posted By: Bj-1
Date Posted: May 24 2006 at 18:14
 ------------- RIO/AVANT/ZEUHL - The best thing you can get with yer pants on! |
Posted By: Syntharachnid
Date Posted: May 24 2006 at 18:49
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Okay, I'm reading that whole site one day.
But not today. ------------- 
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Posted By: FragileDT
Date Posted: May 24 2006 at 19:10
I don't think that "In the court of the Crimson King" is the first "true symph prog album" just because it's longest (save Moonchild) and most renowned song is jazz/fusion with an avant-garde approach (to me at least.) ------------- One likes to believe In the freedom of music But glittering prizes And endless Compromises Shatter the illusion Of integrity |
Posted By: chamberry
Date Posted: May 24 2006 at 20:49
Yeah its kinda long... really long but still interesting-------------
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