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oliverstoned View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: CD players
    Posted: May 05 2006 at 09:06
    Following some member's request, here's a topic about good, but still affordable integrated CD players, with a few advices to upgrade it.


In this price range, the best brands are the english ones:

You can go for any player from the following brands:
Nad, Rotel, Creek, Rega, Naim, Arcam...

Entry level products:

The smallest budget, Nad, "the Rega3" of CD.
Very musical and natural:




Better performances than Nad : Rotel





Mid level products:

Refined and natural: Creek






Very smooth and analog: Rega planet (with its original drawer design)





Dynamic, with much matter and soft highs: Naim CD5
Perfect for rock, slim and nice design, features an original manual steel drawer.








Arcam: Neutral and dynamic (CD33)







To go further: Linn Ikemi


    
    

Edited by oliverstoned - May 19 2006 at 03:51
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 05 2006 at 14:42

some very interesting machines, oliver - many thanks for the advice! Thumbs Up

Prog Archives Tour Van
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oliverstoned View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 05 2006 at 15:15
That's a pleasure, mystic!

Upgrade advices to come!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 05 2006 at 21:45
I would also mention the Linn Genki as well.
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oliverstoned View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2006 at 10:37
Advices to upgrade your CD player:

Vibration cancelling:

-Put your CD on a stable and steady support.

-Use quality vibration cancelling accesories below the player, such as "Golden sound" ceramic cones.

-Put your CD perfectly horizontal in the two dimensions,
using a plumb level. If needed, compensate lack of horizontality with pieces of hard wood, or better, thin plate metal piece(s) (such as coins i.e) that yout put below the cones until it's perfectly horizontal.

-If the upper side of the player is plate, put a heavy object on it to cancel vibes (such as a granite piece).

-If the upper side of the player is plate, you can glue some self adhesive bitumen plates (used for cancelling vibes in car tuning) inside the player on the upper side and the lateral side.


Power optimization:

-Respect electric phase.

-Avoid multiplugs.

-Use a good power cable.

-Separate your CD from the rest of the system.

-Use simple, double or triple power filtering (will be developped later).


    
    
    

Edited by oliverstoned - May 23 2006 at 12:18
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2006 at 11:12
Oliver S
 
Can your advice be adapted for my Sony CD Discman???Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2006 at 11:16
I wonder if Mike en Regalia will be able to resist the temptation to post in this thread. Wink
Pure Brilliance:
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2006 at 11:24
I wonder where I put my socks.
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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2006 at 11:38
Originally posted by Empathy Empathy wrote:

I wonder if Mike en Regalia will be able to resist the temptation to post in this thread. Wink


LOL I can resist. It makes no sense for me to invade a thread about audiophile technology - let the fans of the technology be among themselves. I think I have to practice what I preach - and I'm always saying that you should post within the context of the thread topic whenever possible. So if the topic is "What is the best CD player", it makes no sense to spoil the thread by posting "computer drives can play CDs just as well as CD players".

The question is: can Olivier resist to post a reply to this post?Wink


Edited by MikeEnRegalia - May 22 2006 at 11:39
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2006 at 07:30
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by Empathy Empathy wrote:

I wonder if Mike en Regalia will be able to resist the temptation to post in this thread. Wink


LOL I can resist. It makes no sense for me to invade a thread about audiophile technology - let the fans of the technology be among themselves. I think I have to practice what I preach - and I'm always saying that you should post within the context of the thread topic whenever possible. So if the topic is "What is the best CD player", it makes no sense to spoil the thread by posting "computer drives can play CDs just as well as CD players".

The question is: can Olivier resist to post a reply to this post?Wink
 
 
You can resist, yet you don't (obviously, since you posted), while Oliver so far has. Now let the "fans of the technology" post...There are several reasons why PC (and Mac) cd drives are inferior for music reproduction vs dedicated music cd drives, not least of which is their dependence on software. Home audio drives also depend on "programming" (software), but it's generally of higher/more consistent quality & it's integrated, meaning that users generally can't futz with it. When's the last time you heard someone taking their cd player to the shop to be reprogrammed or for the software to be reinstalled? Or someone complain that their new cd player won't "play with" the rest of their sound system? That's the ultimate quality control: Remove user access...!
 
PC manufacturers also tend to use "grey market" or the cheapest possible parts for components such as cd drives, which is why there's a relatively high failure rate for these parts (I know, I work in that industry)...Sound cards also play a major part in the ultimate fidelity of the PC playback. Again, remove user access...
 
Enough about EnRegalia's thread detour...Not sure Oliverstoned what you meant by "integrated" cd player. You mean integrated transport? You won't find units with separate transport mechanisms unless you're ready to shell out some serious coin...Denon makes some nice/affordable units (DCM-370, ). For ultra-cheap models with reasonable performance, check out Pioneer & Technics. For ultra high-end folks, check out a company called Wadia (they actually use proprietary algorithms to actually upsample the Red Book signal at a 768 kHz sampling rate (at 24 bit resolution) & something called Clocklink to eliminate transport jitter...
 
A couple of points not mentioned so far: What will you be playing back, just stereo sources or also multi-channel content? Consider whether the player is DVD-Audio (DVD-A) capable, which will significantly increase the price tag although some $200-$300 models are out there, or SACD. Is Dolby Digital important to you? If so, consider a good DVD player with onboard decoding...There are some "universal" players out now that can handle most/all of these...
 
Are you playing back MP3, Ogg/Vorbis, WAV or other compressed audio formats? It really shouldn't add much or anything to the price, but it's amazing how incompatible some players are with some of these formats. For instance, I favor variable bit-rate (VBR) MP3 at 192kbps, a good trade-off between space & quality. At least one of my players doesn't "like" this format, although it will play fixed-rate MP3's...Just some more food for thought...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2006 at 07:49
"You won't find units with separate transport mechanisms unless you're ready to shell out some serious coin..."

That's what i own, and it goes further than any integrated players up. And yes, it costs some serious coins, my friend...

My digital setup:

-Drive Sonic frontiers SFT-1 (it's the device up)

    

-Converter Goldmund Mimesis 14



( And i plain to upgrade to a more musical converter "Brinkmann Zenith III")

My digital cable, Nordost:





And yeah Wadia's not bad, using excellent Teac VRDS modified transports.
    

PS: Forget multi channel. There's nothing like classic stereo -or even mono- but you can go further with a good subwoofer -at least 38cm to make real extreme low-.
My own system is made with a pair of bookshelf on good feet and with a sub.
    
    
    

Edited by oliverstoned - May 23 2006 at 09:36
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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2006 at 08:28
I'm still resisting, wolf. I did post, but not in the way that I usually do in response to oliverstoned, and which Empathy was referring to. So in a way - I'm still not posting.Wink

Edited by MikeEnRegalia - May 23 2006 at 08:28
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oliverstoned View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2006 at 08:32
Keep on like that! you make progress. Let's sign a non-agression pact!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2006 at 08:35
LOL I have no problem with that! Let's agree to only argue about analog vs. digital/computer in threads that have a compatible topic.

Hug
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2006 at 08:44
That's fine!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2006 at 18:17
Sweet...I'm assuming you're operating in Europe? Nice setup, looks very heavy...I haven't gotten into the multi-channel music formats (DVD-A and/or SACD) personally, at least not yet, but I hear some of it's fantastic. I have heard various demos...Very dependent on the production of the source material though. Some producers not yet familiar with it & still experimenting tend to overemphasize certain channels,especially the surrounds, such that it no longer sounds natural...
 
You should keep an open mind to multi-channel music though...The concert dvd's that I play back through my video system (recorded in DD 5.1, I'm playing back via 5 full-range speakers through a DD7.1-capable processor, plus 2 side-firing surrounds & a 12-inch Velodyne sub) sound great. Just finished watching The Flower Kings' "Meet The Flower Kings" last night...Even playing back stereo cd's & using the Dolby Pro Logic II Music mode, or the DTS Neo:6 mode, it really adds to the music's spaciousness on most material (especially acoustic recordings). My processor allows separate adjustment of surround parameters such as separate speaker distance setting for each speaker (incl sub), liveness, delay time, separate level adjustment in 0.1db increments for each speaker, etc...Next up is to expand my setup to true 7.1...
 
I use a separate music-only setup for critical music listening. That's still stereo-only, although I'm running 2 pairs of main full-range speakers driven by a NAD power amp & pre-amp (150w/channel). I've got a Denon cd player but looking to upgrade soon (hopefully), maybe to a Meridian unit (the 588 is a possibility)...I'm also using a separate 30-band 1/3 octave Alesis EQ & an old Carver Sonic Holography processor (got this for about 100 bucks way back, it adds "liveness" & depth to the sound similar to an aural exciter). Also a separate Nakamichi AM/FM tuner & an old Nakamichi Dragon tape deck (it's a beast but I can't part with it)...Also inherited a couple of old real-to-real tape decks from my father at some point, one of them's hooked up & working (a 1/4 inch stereo Teac model), although I haven't used it recently. The Sony's in a closet somewhere...Ying Yang
 
Hey, no arguing with EnRegalia without me...Not sure who you're trading arguments with anyway since he's still not posting in this thread...Cool
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2006 at 18:31
^ that's right - I'M NOT POSTING!LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2006 at 18:49
^^Thought I heard something...Nah...Must've been the wind...Approve
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2006 at 21:53
Originally posted by wolf0621 wolf0621 wrote:

Sweet...I'm assuming you're operating in Europe? Nice setup, looks very heavy...I haven't gotten into the multi-channel music formats (DVD-A and/or SACD) personally, at least not yet, but I hear some of it's fantastic. I have heard various demos...Very dependent on the production of the source material though. Some producers not yet familiar with it & still experimenting tend to overemphasize certain channels,especially the surrounds, such that it no longer sounds natural...
 
You should keep an open mind to multi-channel music though...The concert dvd's that I play back through my video system (recorded in DD 5.1, I'm playing back via 5 full-range speakers through a DD7.1-capable processor, plus 2 side-firing surrounds & a 12-inch Velodyne sub) sound great. Just finished watching The Flower Kings' "Meet The Flower Kings" last night...Even playing back stereo cd's & using the Dolby Pro Logic II Music mode, or the DTS Neo:6 mode, it really adds to the music's spaciousness on most material (especially acoustic recordings). My processor allows separate adjustment of surround parameters such as separate speaker distance setting for each speaker (incl sub), liveness, delay time, separate level adjustment in 0.1db increments for each speaker, etc...Next up is to expand my setup to true 7.1...
 
I use a separate music-only setup for critical music listening. That's still stereo-only, although I'm running 2 pairs of main full-range speakers driven by a NAD power amp & pre-amp (150w/channel). I've got a Denon cd player but looking to upgrade soon (hopefully), maybe to a Meridian unit (the 588 is a possibility)...I'm also using a separate 30-band 1/3 octave Alesis EQ & an old Carver Sonic Holography processor (got this for about 100 bucks way back, it adds "liveness" & depth to the sound similar to an aural exciter). Also a separate Nakamichi AM/FM tuner & an old Nakamichi Dragon tape deck (it's a beast but I can't part with it)...Also inherited a couple of old real-to-real tape decks from my father at some point, one of them's hooked up & working (a 1/4 inch stereo Teac model), although I haven't used it recently. The Sony's in a closet somewhere...Ying Yang
 
Hey, no arguing with EnRegalia without me...Not sure who you're trading arguments with anyway since he's still not posting in this thread...Cool
 
Oops, forgot to post the details of my primary stereo speakers. They're a pair of Counterpoint Clearfield speakers (I believe that sadly they're now out of business). Got a killer deal on them (1/2 price) about 6 years ago...They're an incredible piece of engineering & probably will last me a lifetime, the interior of the cabinet is built much like an airplane wing w/similar reinforcements & bracing. It's never even broken a sweat. And no need for a subwoofer, these babies are almost ruler-flat down to 20 hz...The other pair is a set of medium-sized Paradigms, just to sonically fill out the space really...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 24 2006 at 16:33
Nothing is better than a good stereo.
I've heard demonstrations with 5 excellent BW speakers
giving ridiculous results...Shady imaging, poor dynamic, not musical, whereas the speakers are excellent and two well driven give far superior results.
And forget processor, sell it back and buy yourself a good preamp/amp!
(The CD images i displayed up were not from mine but took from the net.) I don't use processor myslef, i'm against it.
    

Edited by oliverstoned - May 24 2006 at 16:33
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