Should IDM be considered electronic prog?

CaincelaOreinim wrote: IDM as retarded as this will sound, stands for 'Intelligent Dance Music' yet another wonderful label... And for once this is an interesting thread...I happen to like all the above mentioned bands...whether or not they're 'progressive' I could care less.

Ok if you like them, but this is not the right place IMO for Dance music, this is a Progressive Rock place.

• I heard Autechre is Techno/Ambient/Dance
• Aphex Twin (Richard D James) is really one Dance/Rave mixer or musician is you want, not ok for here.
• Squarepusher is Bass & Drums mix and nothing more
• Boards of Canada is Techno/Trip Hop

None of them is even remotely related with Progressive Rock, and adding them would be a joke.

There are lot of places for this kind of Music, Prog Archives is not one.

Iván

phobos wrote: Rashikal wrote: I would love to see idm artists like Autechre, Boards of Canada, Aphex Twin and Squarepusher put under progressive electronica. Sure they aren't rock, but is Kraftwerk (besides their early krautrock albums)??? As with other threads relating to this genre, I agree with Rashikal... I will say however that there has been a lot of debate on this site regarding the definition of 'progressive' in the context of 'prog' or 'progressive rock'.  I will suggest that whatever the outcome of the semantic debate may be, it would be ABSOLUTELY in the best interest of this site to introduce a new category for this genre much in the same way that post rock occupies its own place.  It need not be debated whether the music in question is truly 'prog' because it is evident that introduction of this genre would be in keeping with the spirit of this site even if many members do not listen to this type of music.

Please, none of this bands is even Rock and less Progressive, most are one man with a couple of turntables and a computer creatong beats and sampling music to be played at Rave parties for people to dance.

Some members may like it but no way Dance Rave otr Trip Hop will ever be part of Progressive Rock, not a single Progressive Rock site in the world even mentions the possibility of adding them.

Iván

Phobos wrote:

In truth much of this so called "dance music" is as far from dance music as fats domino is from cluster...   if you really want to dance to autechre or aphex twin, quite a bit of their respective cataloges would require that you use a body which is simply not made on earth, to do so.

All this bands are catalogued as IDM which  as CaincelaOreinim well pointed means Intelligent DANCE Music.

All this bands are part of the Rave scenario, I don't care from who they sample, we can push the limits towards more accessible forms of ROCK but I don't believe that this is PROGRESSIVE ROCK.

• VH1 considers all of them Dance Beat
• Rhapsody considers Autechre and Aphex Twin as Bleep or in other words Bass and Beat
• MTV considers both as the ultimate POP expression of Dance Music and Techno Superstars and material for Club Bound

I don't ever visist any of his places as noboody here, but I had to go there to find more about this bands (bevcause of course they are not even mentioned in Progressive Rock sites), more than that this places as MTV and VH1 symbol of the decadence of Prog' largely promotes and reccomends them

So please, they play under a genre that uses the name DANCE, are promoted by the most infamous music pages as VH1 and MTV.

BTW: Squarepushers are described by all places as drum'n'bass DJ's, so I don't know what you laugh about.

Iván

That's why I stand on my original opinion, it would be a joke to add them here. And if we do, lets change the name ton the NON PROG ARCHIVES.

Iván

EDIT: Well at least this thread has been moved out of the Prog Polls, that's an advance.

Phobos, I don't judge your taste, it may be great I'm not an expert in IDM, but this is not Progressive Rock or even Prog related IMO, and aparently in the ADM that moved this thread to the NON Prog Poll.

But it's a Dance genre, it's clearly related with rave, DJ's and sampling which IMO is not compatible with Progressive Rock.

BTW: Also checked Allmusic and already listened Aphex Twin and Autechre after a discussion with amember who is no longer here after he became a troll.

And Allmusic says almost the same, but in the same moment that MTV promotes this guys as great artists, I start to doubt. It's funny, I didn't mentioned Allmusic because according to most people here is an unreliable place, but if you want, here is how they start:

Like Aphex Twin, Autechre are about as close to being techno superstars as the tenets of the genre and the limitations of its audience will allow. http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=11:5y66mpm3 9ffo~T1

You see, even Allmusic says almost the same, and catalogues them as Techno, ambient, IDM. Experimental Techno, etc....buut of course not a single word about Progressive, even when Allmusic is one of the most inclusive and ambiguous places, if there's is a trace of a genre or even one note they mention it.

Hope you don't feel offended, I respect your taste, but IMO no dance, techno ambient band has place here.

Repectfully

Iván

Its uneccesary (for me) to continue discussion of points pertaining to the classification of so called "dance music."  I have one more thing to say however: It would help more than it would hurt to include the discussed category.  I would like to think that the overiding spirit here is more progressive than conserviative (meaning that adaptation and a contemporary rather than backwards looking view of reality rule above protecting the old guard and showing pessimism in regards to change).  If I were motivated to argue against categories of which I didn't approve for whatever reason, then I could make a few strong arguments (such as the one against post rock which I made earlier) but the spirit of inclusion is essential to maintain an ecceclic and intellectual (an undeniable characteristic of much prog rock) communication environment.  I believe that this type of environment is natural and beneficial to this place.

(I actaully have nothing against post rock.  Just thought I should clarify.)

vogre wrote: Ivan Melgar Morey wrote: I heard Autechre is Techno/Ambient/Dance Aphex Twin (Richard D James) is really one Dance/Rave mixer or musician is you want, not ok for here. Squarepusher is Bass & Drums mix and nothing more Boards of Canada is Techno/Trip Hop Did you actualy hear those artists? It's like saying that King Crimson are a blues rock band.   All those artists among others may not be musicians but they are sculptors of some gorgeous sonic landscapes. I really doubt whether Klaus Schulze or Fripp & Eno are in any matter more prog rock.

Yes I heard them except Boards of Canada, I normally don't speak about something I haven't heard, but in every case I read all the literature availlable about them and all agree in this points, if you don't believe me, read the quotes.

But you say something that really impress me, "All those artists among others may not be musicians but they are sculptors of some gorgeous sonic landscapes."

Honestly, this comment relieves me  of any comment, his is a musical site to read about musical genres and about musicians.

Sorry, but I believe this music has absolutely no relation with prog', we already have too many non prog bands here or at least dubious to add Musicians (?????) related to the Dance scenario.

Iván

Ivan Melgar Morey wrote: MikeEnRegalia wrote: I agree that the prog archives are not a suitable place for these bands, but not because they are not progressive. Some things that Aphex Twin has done are much more progressive than some of the established bands here. But they are not based on rock music, and THAT is a strong criterium against them. Having said that ... they're very welcome on www.ratingfreak.com! Yes Mike, but this is a site for PROGRESSIVE ROOCK as a genre, noit Progressive as an adjective to qualify a band's approach to music. They may be progressive in that sense, but in no way they are part or related with the PROGRESIVE ROCK GENRE. Iván

100% agreement here. But the initial question remains - why are Kraftwerk here then? I guess that they are a historic exception from the rule. Let's also not forget that in the 70s electronic instrumentation was more exotic than today ...