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Poll Question: Is there too many 5 stars albums on Progarchives.com?
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BaldJean View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2006 at 18:55
Originally posted by mission4prog mission4prog wrote:

without question too many 5's are given here.

a lock should be placed on the 5 rating and all potentials should be voted on by committee...

or maybe, a "cool down" period should be established--similair to handgun purchases, so the reviewer can be absolutely sure, and in their right mind, before they select that GOLDEN 5 RATING.

m4p


sorry, but the committee idea would never work; no album would get a 5 star rating that way. at least not if the committee is well balanced. for example, if I were in the committee I would probably block most prog metal albums per se; others would block Kraut or Zheul albums from getting 5 stars. there would hardly be any album a committee could agree upon.
anyway, in a way there IS a committee: anyone who rates an album adds to its average rating. and some albums do have an average rating of 5 stars (at least above 4.5). of course those are usually the wrong albums who don't deserve to have them; only I know which albums are worth 5 stars



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2006 at 18:43

without question too many 5's are given here.

a lock should be placed on the 5 rating and all potentials should be voted on by committee...

or maybe, a "cool down" period should be established--similair to handgun purchases, so the reviewer can be absolutely sure, and in their right mind, before they select that GOLDEN 5 RATING.

m4p

 

 

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2006 at 13:42
5 stars doesn't mean that it is "the best", simply
that it is a "masterpiece". There can be many albums
that are masterpieces for the rating person.
For those 2 genesis albums:
SEBTP can be a masterpiece on its way, but Trespass
as well, those 2 are different, but can both be rated with 5 stars.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2006 at 12:47

I think this thread is about a philosophy of work, not a personal taste. It may vary, obviously and thanks goodness.

Let's take the last review posted by Jean and try to read as someone not a member of PA or someone not totally inside prog-rock.


High Tide - Sea Shanties album review and track listing HIGH TIDE - Sea Shanties
Review (Permanent link) by BaldJean @ 8:06:19 AM EST, 6/2/2005
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5 stars  — 

When I first listened to this album I couldn't believe it was from 1969; it is way ahead of the time. Definitely the heaviest album of that aera. Its trademark is the constant battling between electric guitar and electric violin.
Hmmmm... maybe experimental, let's read more.

The album starts right away with a heavy electric guitar riff out of one of the boxes, a pumping bass and drums enter, the guitar riff is answered with heavy electric violin out of the other box, and then "Futilist's Lament" is on the way. The vocals of Tony Hill sound a bit like Jim Morrison; the lyrics throughout the whole album are rather pessimistic. Well, I like heavy electric guitar and I like Morrison's voice, well, this could be a good purchase...

The second track, "Death Warmed Up", is an instrumental and probably the first prog metal piece ever. Guitar and violin together play a very complicated theme of about 3 minutes length, which is repeated once. Then it looks as if they go into another repetition, but what follows for the last 4 minutes is a wild battle between electric guitar and electric violin. Instrumental? Prog Metal? Instrumental is fine, but I'm not totally into metal. Maybe I'll skip that one or maybe a 1969 metal piece should be soft and tolerable.

"Pushed, But Not Forgotten" starts quietly with some phased guitar and melancholic violin, over which Hill sings. But the silence is not for long, soon heavy guitar crashes again, and the violin counters maniacally. The song ends with sad viloin over quiet guitar chords. Violins, violins, violins; this instrument attracts me. My will to buy this album is increasing.

"Walking Down Their Outlook" provides an interesting early example of violin and guitar actually playing two different voices, which is rare in rock music. Violin again, this may be fine.

"Missing Out" has a slightly bluesy feeling, although a lot heavier than blues usually is. Wow, I like a blues touch, now I've decided to purchase it.

"Nowhere" finally is what one could call a ballad, with lines like "On the stage there is no door, at your feet the moving floor decides to burn", yet again it is very heavy, as the whole album. A nearly-ballad, maybe a break, I think it's OK. 

The mix is not the best, but who cares? The music is fantastic! I rarely deal out 5 stars, but this one deserves it. Be warned though: This album is not for the timid! Ah, I'm a shy guy but I'm trying to overwhelm it, maybe it's time to try other flights. I'll buy it.

See, it's hypothetical, the black bold letters do not reflect my opinion (almost ). Another reader could say: "I won't buy it, too much violin", but, at least, he/she received a good indication of what to expect from the reviewed album. A good example of how a review should be, specially for a 5-stars album, IMO.



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2006 at 12:18
Originally posted by BebieM BebieM wrote:

I don't understand why 5 star albums need to be flawless. SEBTP is the best example, IMO it has 3 of the best 20 songs in prog on it (Dancing with the Moonlit Knight, Firth of Fifth, Cinema Show) + 2 excellent ones (After the Ordeal, Aisle of Plenty) + 2 just good ones (Battle of the Epping Forest, I know what i like) + one rather bad one (More Fool me). Still it's a solid 5 star album for me, just because of the 5 tracks mentioned at the start. A couple of average songs hardly diminish the quality of the best ones, I still think it's absolutely essential to own that album, it's more than the sum of its parts. 

So basically what I'm saying is that if an album consists to 3/4 of material you find masterpiece-worthy or even better there's no need to give it 4 stars just because of 1 or 2 bad songs.


I agree with you, but I'd rather give a 5 stars to an album that reinvented a style, that inspired a large community (who does not know SEBTP?), that traces a definitive path in progressive music. Those guys created something totally new and I'm not sure in 1973 they were a "5 stars" band. But 30 years later...

So I think we must be cautious and remember that a band' music will live FOR YEARS and so will our reviews and therefore, there something beside 5 stars.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2006 at 06:28
I don't understand why 5 star albums need to be flawless. SEBTP is the best example, IMO it has 3 of the best 20 songs in prog on it (Dancing with the Moonlit Knight, Firth of Fifth, Cinema Show) + 2 excellent ones (After the Ordeal, Aisle of Plenty) + 2 just good ones (Battle of the Epping Forest, I know what i like) + one rather bad one (More Fool me). Still it's a solid 5 star album for me, just because of the 5 tracks mentioned at the start. A couple of average songs hardly diminish the quality of the best ones, I still think it's absolutely essential to own that album, it's more than the sum of its parts. 

So basically what I'm saying is that if an album consists to 3/4 of material you find masterpiece-worthy or even better there's no need to give it 4 stars just because of 1 or 2 bad songs.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2006 at 06:28
 I do think some are too ready to give albums 5 stars, but on average very few of them are above 4.5, so it's not too much of a problem.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2006 at 06:20
I gave 5 stars to 5 albums so far, and those are more or less my personal top 5 of all time. many may not agree with me, especially about "Vital".
Hammill, Peter - The Fall of the House of Usher album review and track listing HAMMILL, PETER - The Fall of the House of Usher
Review (Permanent link) by BaldJean @ 11:43:32 AM EST, 6/25/2005
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5 stars  —   This is one of the finest albums of Peter Hammill. It exists in 2 different versions, one from 1990, the other from 1999 (therefore it should be listed in here twice). The main difference between the two versions is the absence of drums in the 1999 version; my personal opinion is Peter Hammill was right to remove them, their absence makes the whole atmosphere more dense, and it is more like an opera because of this. The album is based on the well known story of Edgar Allan Poe. Chris Judge-Smith, the librettist, expanded the dramatis personae of the original story a little by giving the herbalist, who in Poe's story only appears in one sentence, a supporting role, using the device of a chorus that comments on the action from ancient Greek or Elizabethian theater and, most important and ingenious idea, by letting the house itself become a main character of the plot. The nameless friend of Usher, who tells the tale in the story of Poe, is given the name Montresor from another Poe story ("The Cask of Amontillado"). The opera is divided into six acts. The first act has the chorus (sung by the wonderfully warm contralto voice of Sarah Jane Morris; on first hearing you might belive this is a man singing) deplore its own role as a mere commentator, before Montresor (Andy Bell) arrives at the house and describes the scenery he sees and why he visits his friend Usher. Thus ends act one. Act two begins with a dreaming and sinister monologue of the voices of the house (sung by Hammill in a chorus with himself), describing the gothic architecture of the house. One immediately feels this house must be evil. Then Roderick Usher appears, singing a morbid song (lyrics of this by Poe), accompanying himself on the organ. Then Usher realizes his friend has appeared, the two greet each other, and Usher tells his friend about his oversensitive senses in the aria "I shun the light", one of the highlights of this album. Montresor comes to the conclusion the house has a bad influence on Usher and asks him to leave the house with him, but Usher says he can not, the house and he belong together. All this time the voices of the house threaten "we will not let him go!" Act three begins with the first appearance of Madeleine Usher (Lene Lovich), who obviously is in a trance and sings in a monoluge, in which two strings of lyrics are interwoven; in one of them she sees herself floating as a corpse on the water. Usher explains to his friend that his sister suffers from catalepic fits, but that her waking moments are even worse. The herbalist, an obvious quack (Herbert Grönemeyer) appears and offers his services, which Montresor rejects. Montresor goes to bed and muses about the house and the influence it has on Usher, while the chorus in vain tells him to leave this house. Act four has Montresor and Madeleine meet next morning. It seems they had almost become lovers some time ago, but for some reason they had been afraid to touch each other (a beautiful duet between Bell and Lovich). Madeiline disappears, and Usher enters, telling his friend his sister does not know how very ill she is. Montresor asks him to have her removed from this house, but Usher again tells his friend they can not leave, and when his friend again begs to leave because he would rot in this house Usher flips and tells his friend "there will be no rot in Usher"; a great duet between Hammill and Bell. Finally they come to the conclusion that together they can fight the eveil influence of the house, after which again the voices of the house ominously threaten "we wil not let them go!" Act five consists of a single piece of music only. Usher tells his friend Madeiline is dead, and he, Montresor and the herbalist mourn that he had to die so young. They decide to put her corpse to rest in the crypt, and the act ends with a kind of funeral march. Act six begins with a storm raging outside the house. Both Usher and Montresor can't sleep. Usher makes a few cryptic remarks about another sound that is not hidden to his ears by the sounds of the storm, which Montresor fails to understand. Montresor asks Usher to play some music for him, and Usher plays "The Haunted Palace" (another poem by Poe, slightly altered). While he is playing Montresor is sure he hears some other sounds and asks his friend to stop playing several times, but Usher denies he hears anything and continues playing more and more desperately, until finally he can't deny he too hears the sounds anymore and tells his friend that his hypersensitive ears had heard this sound long before, and that the had put Madeiline living into the tomb. The music reaches pandemonium, he voies of the house appear again, more threatening than ever, and finally Madeliine enters, now completely mad. Themes from throughout the opera are now repeated while Usher, Madeline and Montresor sing in a confused meddle. Montresor flees, while Madeline in mad revenge strangles Usher, and the house collapses behind Montresor. 4 stars for the 1990 version, 5 for the 1999 version.


Turner's Sphynx, Nik - Xitintoday album review and track listing TURNER'S SPHYNX, NIK - Xitintoday
Review (Permanent link) by BaldJean @ 5:48:52 PM EST, 7/29/2005
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5 stars  —   This is one of the forgotten gems of prog. Of Nik Turner, sax and flute player of Hawkwind, one would expect something on the heavy side, but this wonderful album is very quiet and spacy (though not completely without rhythm, and in the last track it even rocks a little - but don't expect anything like Hawkwind). With half of Gong plus former Hawkwind drummer Alan Powell and Morris Pert of Brand X on percussion the lineup is exquisite. But the biggest surprise is Nik Turner himself. His flute clearly dominates the album, and one really feels the ancient Egyptian Gods evoked by it. The music makes a lot of use of vocoder, which adds to the feeling that supernatural beings are around. This is not an album to play in the background; listen to it late at night by candle light. In m opinion clearly the best album of 1978. Warning: The 1994 CD of Nik Turner of the same name - "Xitintoday" - only has the lyrics in common with this album. The music of that release is completely different though, not even the same compositions. It is not a bad album itself, but no competition for this masterpiece. So stick to the vinyl, if you can find it somewhere (unless Virgin decides to reissue this gem on CD). And then "Hommage to Thee, Oh Ra, in Thy Rising".

Mother Gong - Fairy Tales album review and track listing MOTHER GONG - Fairy Tales
Review (Permanent link) by Jeanine Greifswald-Tolleson @ 2:59:23 AM EST, 2/11/2006
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5 stars  —   This is one of the very best albums of all time and in my personal top three. Vocalist Gilli Smyth, she of the space whisper from Gong, tells three fairy tales, and the band supplies the necessary moods to these tales with their music. Everything about it is just right - the way Gilly Smyth tells the tales, the way the band follows every twist of the tales and makes the images appear before your eyes, and above all an almost supernatural Ddier Malherbe on flutes and saxes. Whether he illusrates the tunes the Pied Piper plays on his flute (you would have followed him too!), imitates the sounds of rats, lets a frog croak, dogs bark, or sends Wassilissa flying over a landscape - he is always perfect. Not that the rest of the band are slouches, but Didier Malherbe just outshines them all. Oh, and this album is also the very best if you want to get your little kids interested in prog. It is the favorite album of our kids Dorothy and Alice (both age 4). Don't hesitate, buy it now!


Van Der Graaf Generator - Vital album review and track listing VAN DER GRAAF GENERATOR - Vital
Review (Permanent link) by BaldJean @ 8:18:48 AM EST, 5/28/2005
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5 stars  —   This album may not have the best of sounds, but it shows the band at the peak of their energy, and there never has been a more brutal bass guitar than that of Nic Potter on this album. Hammill is in excellent form and screams away at the top of his lungs. The opener "Ship of Fools" is a real killer. The adding of a cello works wonderfully for tracks like "Still Life" and "Pioneers Over c" (watch out for the part where violin and cello go manic at high tempo while the bass guitar suddenly starts playing the slow rhythm of the begiing again). The only thing I hate is that the CD version misses 2 tracks (I can't get hold of the Japanese pressing), so I am really looking forward to the remastering Virgin is going to do this year and hope they won't leave out any tracks this time. One of my absolutely favorite live albums ever. Raw Power!


High Tide - Sea Shanties album review and track listing HIGH TIDE - Sea Shanties
Review (Permanent link) by BaldJean @ 8:06:19 AM EST, 6/2/2005
SPECIAL COLLABORATION
5 stars  —   When I first listened to this album I couldn't believe it was from 1969; it is way ahead of the time. Definitely the heaviest album of that aera. Its trademark is the constant battling between electric guitar and electric violin.

The album starts right away with a heavy electric guitar riff out of one of the boxes, a pumping bass and drums enter, the guitar riff is answered with heavy electric violin out of the other box, and then "Futilist's Lament" is on the way. The vocals of Tony Hill sound a bit like Jim Morrison; the lyrics throughout the whole album are rather pessimistic.

The second track, "Death Warmed Up", is an instrumental and probably the first prog metal piece ever. Guitar and violin together play a very complicated theme of about 3 minutes length, which is repeated once. Then it looks as if they go into another repetition, but what follows for the last 4 minutes is a wild battle between electric guitar and electric violin.

"Pushed, But Not Forgotten" starts quietly with some phased guitar and melancholic violin, over which Hill sings. But the silence is not for long, soon heavy guitar crashes again, and the violin counters maniacally. The song ends with sad viloin over quiet guitar chords.

"Walking Down Their Outlook" provides an interesting early example of violin and guitar actually playing two different voices, which is rare in rock music.

"Missing Out" has a slightly bluesy feeling, although a lot heavier than blues usually is.

"Nowhere" finally is what one could call a ballad, with lines like "On the stage there is no door, at your feet the moving floor decides to burn", yet again it is very heavy, as the whole album.

The mix is not the best, but who cares? The music is fantastic! I rarely deal out 5 stars, but this one deserves it. Be warned though: This album is not for the timid!



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2006 at 05:26

Originally posted by Buze Buze wrote:

I am new to this site and I simply love the Progressive community ! New bands and new music to discover, Yeeee !!!

But why is there so many 5 stars albums? To me, 5 stars is THE BEST, but always compared to other albums, AND relative to the artist.

Ex. : Selling England by the Pound from Genesis could be a 5 stars, but Trespass can not be a 5 stars because it is not as "perfect" as Selling England.

I knew Progressive enthusiasts were generous, but please, for newbies who wants to discover the BEST prog music, give them just a few choices...

So, do you think there are too much 5 stars albums?

YES, TOO MANY 5 STARS RATINGS!!!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2006 at 05:24
Originally posted by VanBuren VanBuren wrote:

who cares really, if a person really likes an album and wants to show their effection for it, why not let them, who are you to say hey, you might really love that album, it might even be your favorite album, but we don't feel it's that great so to hell with your individual thoughts


I can't agree with You. If many pepole rate album then we have average estimate.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2006 at 04:11

Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

Originally posted by Atkingani Atkingani wrote:

IMO, a 5-star or a 1-star album should be accompanied by a very good explanation. Remember that our reviews also serve as a guide for someone to purchase that particular album and he/she may be frustated or bothered for being ill advised.


The truth is that there are scarcely any reviews with very good explanations, therefore, what I suggested earlier may be an option to avoid being ill advised. Usually the 1-star reviews are "This is terrible" and the 5 star are "This is an amazing album" without going into too many explanations, which, I must say, is quite hard to do (this is one reason for me not to post reviews but rather recommend albums in my own simple language in another thread). There are, however, exceptions to this, as there are some gifted reviewers here that do succeed in getting their message through and one can understand why they love or not the albums they review. I think people who follow reviews know who they are (not necessarily collabs).

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2006 at 03:59
Originally posted by Atkingani Atkingani wrote:

IMO, a 5-star or a 1-star album should be accompanied by a very good explanation. Remember that our reviews also serve as a guide for someone to purchase that particular album and he/she may be frustated or bothered for being ill advised.




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2006 at 03:51
Yes it's to many 5 star albums IMO. A review should be considered in a much more objective way than a lot of reviwers seems to be doing here. E.g if you have only a couple albums with a band that maybe have recorded 15 albums and think they're fantastic, how is it possible to give the two albums 5 stars?
We're only in it for the music!!!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2006 at 02:38

Originally posted by Atkingani Atkingani wrote:

IMO, a 5-star or a 1-star album should be accompanied by a very good explanation. Remember that our reviews also serve as a guide for someone to purchase that particular album and he/she may be frustated or bothered for being ill advised.

I understand what you mean, however what Stonebeard and others here say is also true from their point of view. I read the reviews but with extreme caution. I need to know the reviewers background first, know what his likes and dislikes are, to know if we have the same basic assumptions about what we like in music and what we do not appreciate. This is why I have read reviews about albums I love and albums I don't love. In each I have picked a reviewer I have agreed with. Then I read that reviewer's other reviews about albums I don't know and I can be more certain that we have the same basic assumptions about music, hence I will love the album he is now reviewing which I do not know. It can be done with a reviewer you don't necessarily agree with, as long as you know his likes and dislikes and then you know where you stand in relation to him. For example, in symphonic prog there are two collaborators with whom I share a similar taste, there are other two collabs in Italian bands, another two in prog-metal and one other in Rio and Avantgarde, one for Krautrock and Canterburry (I reckon they know who they are). Aside from these I have some reviewers which I appeciate their opinions and I can speculate what I will think of the album in regards with their review.  

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2006 at 02:32

I give 5 stars only to albums I think really deserves it (because I think the music is brilliant!)

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2006 at 02:21
SEBTP is only a 4 star. The only 5 star album by Genesis is Foxtrot ;). The yes album is 5 star. TAAB by Tull is 5 star. Tull only have one 5 star album, but they could have had about 5 or 6 ;)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2006 at 23:33

Originally posted by Buze Buze wrote:

I am new to this site and I simply love the Progressive community ! New bands and new music to discover, Yeeee !!!

But why is there so many 5 stars albums? To me, 5 stars is THE BEST, but always compared to other albums, AND relative to the artist.

Ex. : Selling England by the Pound from Genesis could be a 5 stars, but Trespass can not be a 5 stars because it is not as "perfect" as Selling England.

I knew Progressive enthusiasts were generous, but please, for newbies who wants to discover the BEST prog music, give them just a few choices...

So, do you think there are too much 5 stars albums?

OK I do think there are many 5-stars albums... and by the way I disagree completly with your Genesis example.Angry

I definitively think "Trespass" is a 5-stars album without a doubt! This album was released in 1970 with a defying concept... The Knife is the very first beginning for Prog Metal influences, this album is way too influencial in Symphonic Prog Tendencies....!!!Angry

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2006 at 23:27
Its subjetive, what for a person could be a masterpiece for another one its just crap.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2006 at 23:22
I think the star system is relative inside a specific Genre. Reviewers should compare albums with others before giving it 5 stars.

To illustrate the 5 stars "sickness", I went to the Prog Metal Genre to discover music. Opeth seemed to be a good starter. All the albums are 4.5 and higher !! This is simply impossible. These albums can not be equivalent. There must be a bad one and a "okay" one !

Public systems, like Progarchives, are ment to be unaccurate, we have to live with that !
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2006 at 23:05
If I love the album, I'll give it five stars. I'm don't have to go by other peoples' standards.
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