Yes fans vs. Genesis fans

NetsNJFan wrote: Alagithil wrote: YES v. GENESIS v. KING CRIMSON v. JETHRO TULL! GENTLE GIANT and VAN DER GRAAF GENERATOR fight all comers! CAMEL remains peaceful with all! And only EMERSON, LAKE, AND PALMER can save the day! In the end... there will only be dust... and neo-prog... ha ha, like cockroaches, you just can't kill that neo-prog

LOL!

NOW this is funny!

Good one guys!

Charles

Peter wrote: chopper wrote: I like Yes and Genesis - whose side should I be on? As do I -- love 'em both!     That "Chopper" guy, however....

Hey! What did Chopper do to you! he's a good guy

NetsNJFan wrote: well.  I guess I'll be suiting up for Genesis.  Beware Yes fans.  Tis a shame too, when we Yes and Genesis fans should be uniting under a common banner to repulse those barbaric hordes of DT fans. JOKING before you people bite my head off.

....Ah yes, the infamous DT hater!..

was that joke half meant, or do you really mean it?

You all may keep joking. But it seem that not so far are times when at the top of the chart we will see Riverside (increased it's voters 5 times from the end of october till the end of january), Tool, PoS (both increased it's voters by 60-70%, when average increase in a poll is 29%). And Devin Townsend, of course with Synchestra.

It’s only the Genesis fans who vote CTTE 1

Star, they are just jealous of it. But seriously

CTTE is much better than SEBTP. Anyway

Its just a list so it doesn’t really mean anything.

The harmonics of Yes and Genesis are quite conventional, compared to some contemporaries. I am not saying there is nothing new in their music;>>>

Truly said. 

There used to be the adage, Yes- major chords, King Crimson-minor chords, (to which one could add Mahavishnu Orchestra- diminished chords.)

Yes was at a secure place in defining mid 1970s popular music. In 1975, there were two schools of Brit pop, Led Zeppelin and Yes.  Led Zeppelin defined the hard rock heavy/metal school although Zep did quite a number of acoustic tracks.  Yes defined the lighter, more ambient fare but also had some good guitar rock numbers.  Maybe Going for the One was an attempt to redefine themselves.  In 1979, Led Zeppelin, the sleeping Led Zeppelin, broke through with In Through the Out Door, which took them from super-stardom to mega-stardom. Later, that year, Pink Floyd followed with The Wall; Another Brick in the Wall Pt 2 was the number 5 single of 1980.  It took them from super-stardom to mega-stardom.   Genesis, of course, also made it into the Pantheon of mega-stardom with their series of mainstream hits from 1980-85.  Yes never had this leap; this was the reason Howe left. But that does not mean that they did not define the progressive rock aesthetic to the rock music world during the 1970s.

If you compare Yes to Genesis and the classic albums of both bands, musically Genesis does not compare.  Yes is so much more innovative, even in their diatonic, harmonic language. The ensemble playing on The Yes Album and Fragile is much better than that of Genesis classic albums. Just listen to the way Yes often played parts of the band against each other, as in Your Move and Perpetual Change, the funk groove of Starship Trooper. (Genesis had almost no groove at all. Bruford was Collins favorite drummer, and Yes, Collins favorite band.) or Roundabout, a classic pop tune that made it to the number fifteen.  Genesis is a pop band and admittedly so, yet they never broke through the confines of the fan base during their classic period.  Still, today, you will not hear any track accept perhaps the Lamb on American classic rock radio.  While I am no fan of Classic rock radio, one can argue that the ability to have broken through it is a feat.  There are quite a number of Yes tracks taht get regular airplay.

The use of keyboards in Close to the Edge, though not wholly original, redefined the way keyboards could be used in popular music.  Close to the Edge  is not one of my favorite Yes track nor one of my fav albums but I wold defend it musically against anything Genesis attempted.

           Why are we fighting one with each other if we are all on the same side, the battle should be prog vs green day, good charlote, etc.

Tony Fisher wrote: Progger wrote: Thufir Hawat wrote: It’s only the Genesis fans who vote CTTE 1 Star, they are just jealous of it. But seriously CTTE is much better than SEBTP. Anyway Its just a list so it doesn’t really mean anything. I'm glad someone else can see the corruption by the small minority of Genesis fans. And Yes, CTTE is far, far , far , far superior to SEBTP and any other Geneis album you care to mention! Crap. SEBTP is much superior - in my opinion. In yours, it is not. Your opinion does not affect my view, nor mine yours. Genesis made 3 albums better than any Yes album (as did Camel). You don't agree. It doesn't matter. So let's just live and let live without provocative statements, shall we?

The fact is it is not simply based on oppinions! Any musician worth their salt will tell you that YES's CTTE, FRAGILE ect is a notch or two above what Genesis produced or were capable of [FACT]. Also, for an album to be considered a masterpiece in the truest sense it has to be perfect in every sense. The poor production alone of Genesis's 70's output takes their albums down to **** stars to begin with....

 Genesis is a pop band and admittedly so, yet they never broke through the confines of the fan base during their classic period. 

 You are amazing, now I can prove you don't even know what yopu say... In this post you affirm Genesis is a Pop band, but today at 14:13 Hrs on another thread you said:

Genesis is a pop band in the sense that they write well-crafted songs and Genesis fans concur with this statement but the distinction I am making is that Genesis was also for many of the most die hard prog fans the best example of the prog rock aesthetic, that is well crafted pop songs that are enhanced through progressive concepts, odd meters, extended instrumental passages, symphonic keyboard orchestration, classical innuendo, guitar layering, etc.  Obviously it is still the case. PS Yes was doing the same thing. ELP was not nor was Crimson.

Why I think that this it is the case that they were the most popular in the prog community is because I've read people saying that.  I believe that the it is true because even though the band was not popular like Yes or ELP, they were the most influential on the neo-prog bands, notably, Marillion, which shows that musicians in the prog community really repsected what Genesis was doing. So in some sense I am agreeing with you.  What I am contesting is the notion and its continued perpetuation that Gensis is somehow better than these other bands, thus dominating the top ten.

Today, the influence of Yes, King Crimson and ELP on many of the new prog bands, notably Dream Theater and The Mars Volta shows that ELP and Yes, though not as immediately affective on the next generation of prog as Genesis,  were doing something musically to be reckoned with, it just took them thirty years to reckon with it.

PS>
Instead of asking me to clarify my point or opening up to discussion you close it off just to prove that oh, you are right and Genesis is the greatest band in the world.   You could have asked, it seems to me that there is a contradiction in your point. Is there, can you clarify it? and if there is a contradiction in a point I made you just dismiss everything I say.  Because a point I made is wrong or misinformed does not mean that everything I say is wrong. I am here to learn and share like eveyone else.

PS you seem to argue with me when I agree with you. For example, I was not stating that Genesis abstinence from the indulgence of jazz or classical elements was a 'bad thing' I was just stating a fact. the important word is indulgence, Yes they did explore classical music, came up with a madrigal like style and referenced Bach, but they did not indulge it, as in over the top, the way Yes and ELP did.

Listen to Perpetual Change from the Yes Album and see why someone would be annoyed that fans on this site set up Genesis as the ultimate prog rock ensmble.