Black Metal - Progressive Rock Music Forum

Author

Message

Topic Search

Topic Options

Shark Sandwich View Drop Down

Forum Groupie

Joined: November 09 2005
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 41

Posted: February 03 2006 at 09:46

@ Manunkind

Edited by Shark Sandwich

Logos

Prog Reviewer

Joined: March 08 2005
Location: Finland
Status: Offline
Points: 2383

Posted: February 03 2006 at 09:55

Crushed Aria wrote:

You realize that Venom, are not even Black metal, and that they do everything as a joke

Wtf?

Venom invented the musical style known as Black Metal. If modern BM is different, that doesn't make Venom any less Black Metal.

There are different "waves" in Black metal, Venom belongs to the 1st wave, the Norwegian early-to-mid-90's scene is second wave and Bm today is third wave.

Musically all these 'waves' have huge differences.

Edited by Logos

Logos

Prog Reviewer

Joined: March 08 2005
Location: Finland
Status: Offline
Points: 2383

Posted: February 03 2006 at 10:07

Lindsay Lohan wrote:

he sits silent for a while and then replies with a dark voice: SATAN!!!

About the Satan thing...

Most black metal bands have strong ideological principles, usually based on anti-christianity and quite often satanism.

Lindsay, do you know what satanism is? I hope you realize that most people in the black metal scene know that Satan doesn't exist. That's just religious nonsense, as people have to find someone to blame for their own mistakes, too afraid to take responsibility.

Yes, the clothing is often ridiculous, as well as the facepainting. However, many bands have very intelligent and thought-provoking lyrics. Some don't. It's the same as in any type of music, also prog music.

Crushed Aria View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

Joined: October 01 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 184

Posted: February 03 2006 at 14:57

Logos wrote:

Crushed Aria wrote:

You realize that Venom, are not even Black metal, and that they do everything as a joke

They coined the term "black metal" but were never black metal themselves. The thing is, their music was undeniably thrash metal. They were called black metal because of their lyrics, and a genre based on lyrics isn't a genre at all.

Typically, there has to be a general sound for bands to be part of the same genre, and how the hell Venom can be called BM while Mercyful Fate can as well, just boggles the mind.

The true inventor of Black metal, is Bathory. I do understand, and acknowledge Venom as being VERY influential to BM, but I just can't consider them BM, as they were considered that from a lyrical basis, as were MF and a few other bands of the era, like Sodom.

sbrushfan

Forum Senior Member

Joined: November 07 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1177

Posted: February 03 2006 at 15:32

Crushed Aria wrote:

Logos wrote:

Crushed Aria wrote:

You realize that Venom, are not even Black metal, and that they do everything as a joke

They coined the term "black metal" but were never black metal themselves. The thing is, their music was undeniably thrash metal. They were called black metal because of their lyrics, and a genre based on lyrics isn't a genre at all.

Typically, there has to be a general sound for bands to be part of the same genre, and how the hell Venom can be called BM while Mercyful Fate can as well, just boggles the mind.

The true inventor of Black metal, is Bathory. I do understand, and acknowledge Venom as being VERY influential to BM, but I just can't consider them BM, as they were considered that from a lyrical basis, as were MF and a few other bands of the era, like Sodom.

I was waiting for the Bathory reference. I think they were the true innovators of black metal. Venom, to me, was thrash, and Mercyful Fate (with Sherman and Denner) were power metal to me, much in the line of Iron Maiden (though MANY steps heavier). You had it all with Bathory: The satanic influences, the necro production values, etc. Even now, many death metal bands still point to Quorthon as a huge influence.

The lyrical matter in black and death metal is, IMO, about freethinking. Even at its' most pointed, Glen Benton's (Deicide) lyrics talk about freewill...you have the choice to think for yourself.

BTW... to Manunkind.

Edited by sbrushfan

Some world views are spacious, and some are merely spaced...

SetAbominae View Drop Down

Forum Newbie

Joined: January 24 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 16

Posted: February 03 2006 at 16:22

Bathory started out as black metal but were definitely viking metal by the time Blood Fire Death came out. Iron Maiden is considered NWOBHM. As far as black metal goes... I like the post-black movement a lot more - especially Borknagar.

Crushed Aria View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

Joined: October 01 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 184

Posted: February 03 2006 at 17:07

Bathory was definatly not Viking Metal until Hammerheart. Viking metal is a music style, not a lyrical one.

Edited by Crushed Aria

spo1977

Forum Senior Member

Joined: December 09 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 285

Posted: February 04 2006 at 16:53

Black Metal started out as being more based on subject matter than a musical style. Venom and Mercyful Fate were kicking around at the same time. Mercyful Fate would no longer be associated with Black Metal today, even though.... Todays Black Metal seems based on Bathory and since then has evolved. I consider the term Black Metal to apply to anti-Christian bands and yet many Black Metal bands do not seem anti-Christian to me. Is In the Woods really Black Metal or anti-Christian? Currently I think the term Black Metal applies more to a style but before it was more about lyrical content.

spo1977

Forum Senior Member

Joined: December 09 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 285

Posted: February 04 2006 at 16:55

SetAbominae wrote:

Bathory started out as black metal but were definitely viking metal by the time Blood Fire Death came out. Iron Maiden is considered NWOBHM. As far as black metal goes... I like the post-black movement a lot more - especially Borknagar.

So is Viking Metal stuff that sounds like Manowar or stuff that sounds like Enslaved or is it subject matter?

BaldFriede View Drop Down

Prog Reviewer

Joined: June 02 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10266

Posted: February 04 2006 at 17:02

Crushed Aria wrote:

Easily the best genre of music for me. I love music to have atmosphere and the like, and well the atmosphere alot of Prog. bands create sound fake, forced, or just don't do anything for me.

This is extremely funny; if any atmosphere sounds fake and forced, it is definitely the atmosphere of black metal. Nothing sounds more put-on than this "look what heavy and bad guys we are" attitude in that kind of music.

BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.

Crushed Aria View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

Joined: October 01 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 184

Posted: February 04 2006 at 18:22

spo1977 wrote:

So is Viking Metal stuff that sounds like Manowar or stuff that sounds like Enslaved or is it subject matter?

Viking metal is based around the sound of bands like Einherjer, Hammerheart-Era Bathory, Ensiferum, and the like. It is not lyrically based, and is very much so based around the sound.

BaldFriede wrote:

... you obviously have never listened to much real black metal.

spo1977 wrote:

I consider the term Black Metal to apply to anti-Christian bands and yet many Black Metal bands do not seem anti-Christian to me. Is In the Woods really Black Metal or anti-Christian? Currently I think the term Black Metal applies more to a style but before it was more about lyrical content.

Black metal is sound based, not lyric based. In The Woods...'s first album was BM but after that not really.

Edited by Crushed Aria

BaldFriede View Drop Down

Prog Reviewer

Joined: June 02 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10266

Posted: February 04 2006 at 18:26

Crushed Aria wrote:

BaldFriede wrote:

... you obviously have never listened to any black metal.

You are wrong there, I have, and I had precisely these feelings.

BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.

Crushed Aria View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

Joined: October 01 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 184

Posted: February 04 2006 at 18:32

BaldFriede wrote:

Crushed Aria wrote:

BaldFriede wrote:

... you obviously have never listened to any black metal.

You are wrong there, I have, and I had precisely these feelings.

Ahh, well please, do tell me which bands you have heard?

Seeing as black metal is hardly heavy.

BaldFriede View Drop Down

Prog Reviewer

Joined: June 02 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10266

Posted: February 04 2006 at 18:36

I don't remember which artists I listened to; I disliked the whole genré. It doesn't give me anything. Just not my kind of music.

BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.

spo1977

Forum Senior Member

Joined: December 09 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 285

Posted: February 05 2006 at 21:36

Did In the Woods use black metal style vocals on Omnio or Heart of Ages. I just heard the live version of the song Heart of ages and the vocals are all normal?

King of Loss View Drop Down

Prog Reviewer

Joined: April 21 2005
Location: Boston, MA
Status: Offline
Points: 16536

Posted: February 05 2006 at 21:58

Crushed Aria wrote:

BaldFriede wrote:

Crushed Aria wrote:

BaldFriede wrote:

... you obviously have never listened to any black metal.

You are wrong there, I have, and I had precisely these feelings.

Ahh, well please, do tell me which bands you have heard?

Seeing as black metal is hardly heavy.

It definitely isn't heavy, but its far more "unlistenable" for people like me that wish to hear some "melody".

Crushed Aria View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

Joined: October 01 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 184

Posted: February 06 2006 at 15:57

King of Loss wrote:

Crushed Aria wrote:

BaldFriede wrote:

Crushed Aria wrote:

BaldFriede wrote:

... you obviously have never listened to any black metal.

You are wrong there, I have, and I had precisely these feelings.

Ahh, well please, do tell me which bands you have heard?

Seeing as black metal is hardly heavy.

It definitely isn't heavy, but its far more "unlistenable" for people like me that wish to hear some "melody".

There is melody in all music.

Though, I feel you would enjoy the band, Diabolical Masquerade.

IcedSabbath View Drop Down

Forum Groupie

Joined: January 11 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 87

Posted: February 06 2006 at 20:01

A couple of comments after reading through this thread...

Concerning the abundance of (bad) BM bands:
Firstly, there are bazillions of black metal bands in existance. Most of these bands are going to suck ass. This is because (IN MY OPINION), black metal is fairly easy to play and has that certain "Kvlt" quality which is very appealing...so people will form a black metal band and write and record some sh*tty music. If you're making raw BM, it's okay to have bad production. It's okay to have poor musicianship. So somebody who's sitting there listening to Transylvanian Hunger will say to themselves, "Whoa dude, I think I can do this!" They'll then form a BM band and probably suck at it.

Concerning good/bad BM:
...that doesn't mean that all BM is bad. There are many different styles of black metal, and oftentimes you just need to sift through the crap to get to the good stuff. In my personal opinion, however, the vast majority of regular-ass raw BM sucks. Melodic-black can be cool - I dig Thy Serpent. From what I've heard of Graveworm (Italy), I also enjoy. Lately I've been getting into the latest Satanic Warmaster album. I do find that what most people consider to be "good" BM is the post-black stuff, like Arcturus, Vintersorg, etc. That stuff is pretty cool, and often their later material has little or no relation to black metal.

Conerning the origins of BM:
Venom created the name, Bathory created the music. Euronymous really brought everything together, though, and basically helped start modern BM as we know it.

Concerning USBM:
There's TONS. Nachtmystium, Xasthur, and Leviathan are the big names right now. Let's not forget Profanatica!

Zarquino

Forum Newbie

Joined: August 24 2005
Location: Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 33

Posted: February 07 2006 at 10:50

Well, I got sick reading this, too sick.

If you don't like black metal let's not talk about it, end of discussion. Don't say it's the worst or is the best, it is stupid. Any genre can be the best for anyone. I don't really know what to say...

I like black metal. Varg Vikernes screams for me in 'Lost Wisdom' of Burzum, the 'Mother North' riff from the Satyricon band, makes me some emotion that no much more music made me. And if you can't understand just leave it. I don't find immature to try to show the ignorance and the hate. I don't like the satanism, nor the christianity, I hate any religion.

I listen to metal and don't believe in any pagan god or satan or anything.

Black metal has that atmosphere. When you hear 'black metal' you think in a man with corpse paint across a wood with an ax in a hand and a fire in the other. You think about a irrational man that hates mankind. Many black metal musicians are just sick, but they make great music.

I just don't understand some things you say. If you can't undertand don't talk. I think progressive rock is GREAT, I like a lot when the instrments seem to get irrational and start to throw away notes, I love it. And I love it when it makes me FEEL. The most important in music are FEELINGS, and if you dont feel leave...

It doesnt matter if is rush, yes, behemoth, dream theater, iron maiden, arcturus, mayhem, coldplay, keane, king crimson or genesis. The most important is to feel.

Bye Guys

There's nothing left to loose

Zarquino

Forum Newbie

Joined: August 24 2005
Location: Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 33

Posted: February 07 2006 at 10:52

Ahm, now that I remember. SOme forms of sathanism are nearly 'carpe diem'. To believe in oneself and live your live. Not all satanics think bad and believe in thathorny man...

There's nothing left to loose