Yes fans vs. Genesis fans

BaldFriede wrote: Moogtron III wrote: BaldFriede wrote: I could never understand why "Close to the Edge" and "Selling England by the Pound" are considered to be at the very top; they are rather conventional records... There are so many exceptional prog records out there that have by far more original ideas on them than "Close to the Edge" or "Selling England by the Pound". And don't misunderstand me, I am not saying they are bad records, they are just not outstanding and exceptional. They lack true daring... Sorry, most of the times you are the very voice of reason, but this time I strongly disagree with you. Close To The Edge (not one of my personal favourite Yes records, to prove my objectivity) is daring allright. The first and the last track are very original and innovating. And You And I isn't as daring, but it's still a unique track, and the album as a whole is immensely progressive. Selling England is not as "far out" as Foxtrot, but it's still a wonderful trip into a totally original imaginary world. It may be not the most daring album they made, but it's still very new and otherworldly. The harmonics of Yes and Genesis are quite conventional, compared to some contemporaries. I am not saying there is nothing new in their music; compared to most of what rock music delivered at that time they are outstanding. I just don't think Yes or Genesis are the epitome of prog; they just happen to be the most popular ones. There are a lot of bands who deserve at least the same popularity, but will never achieve it.

If you put it that way, I can agree to a certain extent. Not completely, because I don't think that the tracks Close To The Edge and Siberian Khatru are conventional in their melodies, harmonies and lyrics. And I do think though, that it is the merit of bands like Yes that they gave innovative music some mass appeal. But true, there were bands / artists that were more radically progressive than Genesis and Yes.

I'm with BaldFriede on this one - one can talk about Yes and Genesis being extraordinary, but this 'extraordinary world' one enters when listening to their albums is one's own personal world, a work of one's own imagination triggered by listening to these albums. It's subjective.

At the same time the 'technical', 'musicological' (don't know if I'm using the words correctly here) aspects of a piece of music are definitely objective. I'm no musician, but BaldFriede is one, and I'm certain she has a firm grip on these issues. This is why I agree with her that Yes' and Genesis' masterpieces aren't really special from that point of view.  

There's no one left alive, must be a draw.

So the Black Cat Barons toss a coin to settle the score.

BaldFriede wrote: I could never understand why "Close to the Edge" and "Selling England by the Pound" are considered to be at the very top; they are rather conventional records... There are so many exceptional prog records out there that have by far more original ideas on them than "Close to the Edge" or "Selling England by the Pound". And don't misunderstand me, I am not saying they are bad records, they are just not outstanding and exceptional. They lack true daring...

Sorry, most of the times you are the very voice of reason, but this time I strongly disagree with you. Close To The Edge (not one of my personal favourite Yes records, to prove my objectivity) is daring allright. The first and the last track are very original and innovating. And You And I isn't as daring, but it's still a unique track, and the album as a whole is immensely progressive.

Selling England is not as "far out" as Foxtrot, but it's still a wonderful trip into a totally original imaginary world. It may be not the most daring album they made, but it's still very new and otherworldly.

Alagithil wrote: YES v. GENESIS v. KING CRIMSON v. JETHRO TULL! GENTLE GIANT and VAN DER GRAAF GENERATOR fight all comers! CAMEL remains peaceful with all! And only EMERSON, LAKE, AND PALMER can save the day! In the end... there will only be dust... and neo-prog...

ha ha, like cockroaches, you just can't kill that neo-prog

YES v. GENESIS v. KING CRIMSON v. JETHRO TULL!

GENTLE GIANT and VAN DER GRAAF GENERATOR fight all comers!

CAMEL remains peaceful with all!

And only EMERSON, LAKE, AND PALMER can save the day!

In the end... there will only be dust... and neo-prog...

BaldFriede wrote: Eddy wrote: are you saying that just because its popular or because it has popness in it that it is weak? Read again; I never said the albums were "weak", I just said they are not extraordinary.

Well, they each give me an extraordinary amount of pleasure -- that is what determines my level of fondness for music -- not its "daring" or level of experimentation. (And each was very original in its day, no?)
 

Case in point: I greatly prefer to listen to Beethoven's more conventional 6th symphony, over his unconventional "difficult" and "daring" 9th, overall.

We each listen in different ways -- your approcah seems to be more "intellectual" (that is valid) mine more "instinctive" (that is equally valid, I think).

Head vs heart vs some of each....

BTW, lyrics really mean a lot to me, and those on SEBTP can really move me -- other music fans seem not to concern themselves much with lyrics.

Different strokes....