An Airline Passenger’s Story

Peter wrote: BTW, "Doc," I firmly support deportation too: yours, from here, for repeatedly using this once-fine forum as a platform to spread hatred. Cheers, you sawed-off Eichmann! PS: You seem rather tense: got a girlfried yet? No? Too bad Eva Braun is no longer available....

It always amazes me how the most hyper-sensitive individuals are also the most offensive. 

I would gladly support your deportation from the human race you woman with a man's name.

The best thing you've said all night Peter.  You don't like me and I most certainly do not like you, so let's call it quits and part as enemies. 

Amazing

Peter wrote: The Doctor wrote: you woman with a man's name. Ow! Fight fair! Sorry, Baby Doc -- I'll take no more of your bait. I've named you for what you are for all to see (not that you didn't make that disgustingly obvious all by yourself), and now I'm done with you. I have a LIFE to get back to, and you are simply beneath my notice. Seig heil and sayonara, schlep!  Boot!

Learn how to spell "Sieg Heil" before you use it. And even better: Don't use it at all! Disgusting! Pfui! You were the last person I would have expected to use that crap, Peter.
As for the Doctor: Wake up, my dear. Mass deportation? Sure, they are all guilty, because they belong to the dirty tribe of Arabs, they keep knives in their kaftans. Off with their heads! Sorry, Doctor, I would not call you a "Nazi", but such a viewpoint is very racist.


Edited by BaldFriede

BaldFriede wrote: Peter wrote: The Doctor wrote: you woman with a man's name. Ow! Fight fair! Sorry, Baby Doc -- I'll take no more of your bait. I've named you for what you are for all to see (not that you didn't make that disgustingly obvious all by yourself), and now I'm done with you. I have a LIFE to get back to, and you are simply beneath my notice. Seig heil and sayonara, schlep!  Boot! Learn how to spell "Sieg Heil" before you use it. And even better: Don't use it at all! Disgusting! Pfui! You were the last person I would have expected to use that crap, Peter. As for the Doctor: Wake up, my dear. Mass deportation? Sure, they are all guilty, because they belong to the dirty tribe of Arabs, they keep knives in their kaftans. Off with their heads! Sorry, Doctor, I would not call you a "Nazi", but such a viewpoint is very racist.

Sorry BF, but mass deportation was a nazi policy, and if someone advocates nazi policies, they are behaving like a nazi. Should we pretend that that ugly chapter in German history did not happen? Should we forget its lessons? Can we never specifically mention it, even when we have ample justification to do so? Modern Germany has learned well and admirably from its past (unlike some nations), examining it, and passing laws against the type of racist hatred that Doc has been advocating, in an effort to prevent the institutionalized evil of that past from ever recurring. Thus, I have absolutely nothing against Germans, and, in fact, would like to visit Germany one day. If I did, I would not go around offending decent folks and talking about the painful past, unless (unlikely, there) given adequate cause to do so. I believe I clearly had that here. Question: can one advocate "mass deportation" (in print) in Germany now? What will you be called and accused of there if you do so? Will the past and the word "nazi" never come up, with no references made to Hitler and Eichmann's policies? I think not!

I absolutely despise racism, and nazis, and do not like to see OUR music site used as a convenient platform for spreading hatred, while too many are seemingly too squeamish to call a spade a spade, or a nazi a nazi. If one spouts nazi ideology (while, I assume, being educated enough to be familiar with what they did to know that mass deportation was a nazi policy) one is, perforce, in a very real sense, a "nazi." Sorry, but no one word says it more effectively. I also referred to "ethnic cleansing," a term referring to what happened in the former Yugoslavia, and especially modern Bosnia. Will an outraged Bosnian take me to task next?

 Yes, I used an ugly, powerful, loaded word to label some very ugly, scary behavior. I did not do so lightly, I assure you. My intent was not to offend Germans, but to let all here (especially the young) clearly see the advocation of "mass deportation" for what is was: the hate-filled, paranoid ranting of a nazi. I firmly believe that my making the link between "Doc's" words and National Socialist policy was justified, and I would do so again in similar circumstances. Let us look upon and learn from the past, not shrink from it! 

In any case, I'm sorry for any offense inadvertently given to you, but I stand by what I did and said.

Your  approach (above) to Doc was perhaps more "circumspect," and mine heavier-handed, but we both obviously saw the same evil, we both know where it was most glaringly seen on a huge scale in fairly recent history, and we both know and rightfully despise what it ultimately led to. (In all honesty now, Friede, when you first read the words "mass deportation," did you not at least mentally draw the link that I did? Did the "N" word never even enter your mind?) Know thine enemy -- the enemy of mankind, and decent people everywhere -- Germans very much included in that vast majority.

Now, please accept my apology, and let me be done with this enraging and depressing topic -- at least for now.

Edited by Peter

Ewwwwww...

 

Maybe the admins should forbid the political discussions altogether - this thread was somewhat an intelligent debate, but the last two pages... ugh

 

And I know from the Velvy Room that Doc is a great guy, and I know so is Peter... Look what politics can do to people!

The Miracle wrote: Ewwwwww...   Maybe the admins should forbid the political discussions altogether - this thread was somewhat an intelligent debate, but the last two pages... ugh   And I know from the Velvy Room that Doc is a great guy, and I know so is Peter... Look what politics can do to people!

I apologize Miracle and others for engaging Peter in a pointless argument that solved nothing.  He still dislikes me, and I still dislike him and neither of us have changed our views in the slightest because of that argument.  However, perhaps you are right and free and open debate is not possible on this site without getting into dirty, messy mudslinging arguments.  Especially when only certain views are labeled as racist.  Anti-american views are fine it seems, but anti-well anyone else is seen as being a nazi.  Anyway, I will not rise to the bait of Peter or anyone else again.  I am far too intelligent and have far better things to do with my time than engage in such childish and pointless behavior.  Again, I apologize to all who had to witness this despicable display on mine and Peter's part. 

Jeez, what a thread.  

What I meant, Peter, is that when not talking politics, Doc is indeed nice and funny, ask anyone, Snowy, Cyg, Hatman, whoever - they'll tell you the same. I was not saying that he is the good guy and you're the bad guy. Calling him a nazi was a bit over the top. He isn't racist, he just thinks that it's OK to sacrifice some individuals' rights in order to drive Al qaeda out, you don't. They're just opinions. Doc's not being racist towards Arabs, he wants to rid US of terrorists, who happened to be Arabs. Maybe his ways to do it are too harsh.

Anyway... let's not forget that this is a music forum and rather discuss that and not start anymore filthy political assaults

 

Have a happy new year!

Peace

Edited by The Miracle

Doctor - for somebody who claims to be (a) a lawyer and (b) intelligent, you're displaying some prize winning levels of disingenuousness here.

Islamophobia is the new racism, the new anti-semitism, this year's shiny new version of ethnic cleansing, the final solution you can talk about over dinner with your middle class friends and not leave a nasty taste in the mouth. I know you don't see it that way, and I don't doubt that many who feel like you would hate to be considered narrow minded bigots, but let's face it: when you divide the human race into us and them (and after all, we're only ordinary men...), when you advocate closing your borders against them, when you advocate mass deportation of them, when you dehumanise them and reduce them to subhuman rabble intent only on trashing your nice shiny shopping malls and your indispensable SUVs, then you're already a good way down the road that leads to yellow stars, gulags, making them sit at the back of the bus, making sure they have seperate drinking fountains, laying on special trains for them to go somewhere out in the countryside (and let's pretend we can't see those plumes of smoke) and basically treating muslims the way Saddam Hussein treated the Kurds, Pol Pot treated the middle class of Cambodia, Hitler and Stalin treated the Jews, Gypsies and homosexuals, Idi Amin treated the Ugandan Asians and every bloody emperor treated whichever group was designated the scapegoat du jour.

Listen to Dumb All Over by Frank Zappa and reflect on his contributions to American culture, then reflect on his Arabic ancestry. Remember that the victims of the 9/11attack on the World Trade Centre included muslims, and it's a safe bet that the emergency services did as well.

And have a happy new year!