An Airline Passenger’s Story

Cheers, Mark!

Easy Livin wrote: OK, the point here is that Trotsky made an admin decision. If you wish to question that decision with Trotsky, do so by PM. Do not simply post the same images again, without his agreement. Whether or not you agree with decisions taken by the admin team is for you to decide, but for the sake of the forum you are expected to respect those decisions.

I did and got no response.

stonebeard wrote: WTF, guys???  How is clapping for a servicemen returning home from Iraq offensive????

Why clap for them in the first place? Because they followed the stupid orders of a stupid government that sent them into a stupid war? There are other things I'd rather clap for. Military actions are nothing to be clapped about. It might be slightly different if the troops had been the successfull defenders against an invader, but this is clearly not the case here.
No, I'd rather clap my hands for anyone who says "This war was an outrage", in essence people like Susan Sontag or Noam Chomski.
"He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would fully suffice. This disgrace to civilization should be done away with at once. Heroism at command, senseless violence and the exasperating patriotism (remark by me: "patriotism" is not a good translation for the German "Vaterländerei", a word that already ridicules patriotism in itself - and an invention of Einstein, who was not only a genius of physics but also a master of the written word; just read some of his extremely witty aphorisms -, but there is no adequate English expression for it, so I'll stick with this translation of the quote. "Patriotismism" comes close, but is not the same), how violently I hate all this, how despicable and ignoble war is; I would rather be torn to shreds than be a part of so base an action. It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder." (Albert Einstein)

My old friend Reed Lover has this to say:

 

It has been said that one way that George Bush clings to power is by creating a climate of fear.This tactic is quite obviously working on some members.

There are thousands of atrocities committed against people every year yet most people only see it as a problem when they are comitted in their own back yard.

It seems obvious to me that if you attack other nations,tinker with their internal affairs or constantly denounce their chosen beliefs then eventually they are going to strike back at you.

9/11 was a terrible,unspeakable atrocity,but ultimately it is just one more example of man's inhumanity to man.All sides are guilty and not just "a little bit".

Muslims persecute each other,bomb Christians and each other,and their leaders are hypocrites.They hide behind religion to further their own lust for power,accumulate of wealth and create their "place in history".

The West persecutes its own kind (if imposing poverty on your own is not persecution then what is?),it bombs the innocent citizens of faraway countries and of course the leaders are hypocrites.They hide behind religion to further their own lust for power,accumulation of wealth and create their "place in history".

Some Roger Waters:

You have a natural tendency
To squeeze off a shot
You're good fun at parties
You wear the right masks
You're old but you still
Like a laugh in the locker room
You can't abide change
You're at home an the range
You opened your suitcase
Behind the old workings
To show off the magnum
You deafened the canyon
A comfort a friend
Only upstaged in the end
By the Uzi machine gun
Does the recoil remind you
Remind you of sex
Old man what the hell you gonna kill next
Old timer who you gonna kill next
I looked over Jordan and what did I see
Saw a U.S. Marine in a pile of debris
I swam in your pools
And lay under your palm trees
I looked in the eyes of the Indian
Who lay on the Federal Building steps
And through the range finder over the hill
I saw the frontline boys popping their pills
Sick of the mess they find
On their desert stage
And the bravery of being out of range
Yeah the question is vexed
Old man what the hell you gonna kill next
Old timer who you gonna kill next
Hey bartender over here
Two more shots
And two more beers
Sir turn up the TV sound
The war has started on the ground
Just love those laser guided bombs
They're really great
For righting wrongs
You hit the target
And win the game
From bars 3,000 miles away
3,000 miles away
We play the game
With the bravery of being out of range
We zap and maim
With the bravery of being out of range
We strafe the train
With the bravery of being out of range
We gained terrain
With the bravery of being out of range
With the bravery of being out of range
We play the game
With the bravery of being out of range

 

Anybody here recognise themselves??

 

 

Edited by Tony R

marktheshark wrote: bluetailfly wrote: marktheshark wrote: bluetailfly wrote: marktheshark wrote: I sat in my seat of the Boeing 767 waiting for everyone to hurry and stow their carry-ons and grab a seat so we could start what I was sure to be a long, uneventful flight home.         & amp; amp; amp; amp; nbsp;         & amp; amp; amp; nbsp; With the huge capacity and slow moving people taking their time to stuff luggage far too big for the overhead and never paying much attention to         & ; ; ; ;nbs p;         & ; ; ;nbs p;hol ding up the growing line behind them, I simply shook my head knowing that this flight was not starting out very well. I was anxious to get home to see my loved ones so I was focused on my issues and just felt like standing up and yelling for some of these clowns to get their act together.        &am p;am p;am p;am p;nb s p;         & ; ;am p;am p;nb sp; I knew I couldn't say a word so I just thumbed thru the "Sky Mall" magazine from the seat pocket in front of me.         &am p;am p;am p;am p;nb s p;         & ; ;am p;nb sp;Yo u know it's really getting rough when you resort to the over priced, useless sky mall crap to break the monotony.        &am p;am p;am p;am p;nb s p;         & ; ;am p;am p;nb sp; With everyone finally seated, we just sat there with the cabin door open and no one in any hurry to get us going although we were well past the scheduled take off time.         & amp; amp; amp; amp; nbsp;         & amp; amp; amp; nbsp; No wonder the airline industry is in trouble I told myself.          ; ; ; ; ;           ; ; ; ; ; Just then, the attendant came on the intercom to inform us all that we were being delayed.        & ; ; ; ;nbs p;         & ; ; ; ;nbs p; The entire plane let out a collective groan.&nb s p;         & ; ;am p;am p;nbs p;         & ; ; ; ;nbs p; She resumed speaking to say "We are holding the aircraft for some very special people who are on their way to the plane and the delay shouldn't be         & ; ; ; ;nbs p ;           ; ; ; ;mor e than 5 minutes.        & ; ; ; ;nbs p;         & ; ; ; ;nbs p; The word came after waiting six times as long as we were promised that I was finally going to be on my way home.         & amp; amp; amp; amp; nbsp;         & amp; amp; amp; nbsp; Why the hoopla over "these" folks?&nb s p;         & ; ;am p;am p;nbs p;         & ; ; ; ;nbs p; I was expecting some celebrity or sport figure to be the reason for the hold up ...         &am p;am p;am p;am p;nb sp ;           ; ; ; ;Ju st get their butts in a seat and let's hit the gas I thought.        & ; ; ; ;nbs p;         & ; ; ; ;nbs p; The attendant came back on the speaker to announce in a loud and excited voice that we were being joined by several U.S. Marines returning home from Iraq !!!         &am p;am p;am p;am p;nb sp ;           ; ; ; ;Ju st as they walked on board, the entire plane erupted into applause.        &am p;am p;am p;am p;nb s p;         & ; ;am p;am p;nb sp; The men were a bit taken by surprise by the 340 people cheering for them as they searched for their seats.&nb s p;         & ; ;am p;am p;nbs p;         & ; ; ; ;nbs p; The y were having their hands shook and touched by almost everyone who was within an arm's distance of them as they passed down the aisle. One elderly woman kissed the hand of one of the Marines as he passed by her.         &a mp;a mp;a mp;a mp;n bsp ;           ; ; ; ;T he applause, whistles and cheering didn't stop for a long time.         & amp; amp; amp; amp; nbsp;         & amp; amp; amp; nbsp; When we were finally airborne, I was not the only civilian checking his conscience as to the delays in "me" getting home, finding my easy chair, a cold beverage and the remote in my hand.         & amp; amp; amp; amp; nbsp;         & amp; amp; amp; nbsp; The se men had done for all of us and I had been complaining silently about "me" and "my" issues I took for granted the everyday freedoms I enjoy and the conveniences of the American way of life.         & amp; amp; amp; amp; nbsp;         & amp; amp; amp; nbsp; I took for granted that others had paid the price for my ability to moan and complain about a few minutes delay to "me" while those Heroes were going home to their loved ones.         & amp; amp; amp; amp; nbsp;         & amp; amp; amp; nbsp; I attempted to get my selfish outlook back in order and minutes before we landed, I suggested to the attendant that she announce over the speaker a request for everyone to remain in their seats until our heroes were allowed to gather their things and be first off the plane.&nb s p;         & ; ;am p;am p;nbs p;         & ; ; ; ;nbs p; The cheers and applause continued until the last Marine stepped off and we all rose to go about our too often taken for granted everyday freedoms.        &am p;am p;am p;am p;nb s p;         & ; ;am p;am p;nb sp; I felt proud of them.         & amp; amp; amp; amp; nbsp;         & amp; amp; amp; nbsp; I felt it an honor and a privilege to be among the first to welcome them home and say "Thank You for a job well done."&nb s p;         & ; ;am p;am p;nbs p;         & ; ; ; ;nbs p; I vowed that I will never forget that flight nor the lesson learned. I can't say it enough, THANK YOU to those Veterans and active servicemen and women who may read this and a prayer for those who cannot because they are no longer with us.         &am p;am p;am p;am p;nb sp ;           ; ; ; ;GO D BLESSAMERICA!         ; ; ; ; ;           ; ; ; ; ;  WELCOME HOME! AND THANKS FOR A JOB WELL DONE!!!!! This is a ribbon for soldiers fighting in Iraq. Mark, You know as well as I do that this type of sentiment is not going to go over well on this site. I see this as mainly a provocative attempt to stir up trouble and frankly you should know better than to post this sort of thing. What's going on in Iraq is a f**ked-up mess and if you think about it, it's not something to really be proud of, but at best to be understood as a grim reality. These soldiers are being used as pawns in a cynical game of realpolitik, and the lives being lost are not for any ideals or for their homeland, but only for gains in a geo-political chess game. I'm sorry. I don't mean to insult you, but I really think you need to reflect on what motivated you to post this. I don't care how it goes over on this site. I'm going to post it anyway. If you can't handle a different point of view, then maybe you shouldn't be here. Don't insult me with this "I support the troops but oppose the war" BS. You can't have it both ways. It's obvious you have a grudge against servicemen and what they're doing. So why don't you just go ahead and call them baby-killers and get it over with. And stop pretending you really care. Mark, If you're posting this facetiously to try and get a rise out of the more outspoken members of the forum who don't agree with Bush's policy (which I guess is what your winking icon is suggesting), you're a pathetic fool. But, hey, you got me to respond, so I guess you got your rocks off...   You know, I just love it when people like you go for the name-calling and personal attacks when backed into a corner. Nothing naive here my friend. But you seem to have a problem distinguishing the good guys from the bad guys. What's the matter, gray got your tongue? Hey boys and girls! You know what time it is? It's reminder time! Heeere we go: MTS posted pix of the Sept 11 tragedy which I have decided to edit out (ADMIN:TROTSKY) Yeah! I'm naive!

MTS,

No one's backed into a corner here. I'm calling it like I see it. If someone posts a politically-charged nationalistic, overly-sentimental piece of drivel on a prog-rock website with forum members from many different cultures, someone who I believe knows exactly what he is doing, I see that as the act of a jackass.

I say that without the least bit of defensiveness. That's my opinion of what you did.

(Please note lack of winking icon.)

...Funny to be pro-army and pro Iraq-war for a Zappa fan!

Sure if Zappa would be here taht he'd be against that war and that president!

Ok, but how can you be proud of an illegitimate war which caused so much suffering among both US and Iraqui people?

The British and American public were lied to - once the troops were in and Sadam removed from power the WOMD couldnt be found - a tyrant was removed - it doesnt change the fact that government lied - however,this is a prog site - music is my reason for being here

Ok, maybe it is not my business - but since some people of the so-called 1st World sometimes refer to Brazil as being an integrant nation of the Western Civilization, I'd still like to know who at the very beginning (and for several years after) organized, funded, instructed and armed the infamous Al-Qaeda?  

Edited by Atkingani

BaldFriede wrote: Sorry, Mark, but I can't understand you. I can be proud of my own achievements, but how somebody can be proud of the achievement of others with which he has nothing to do is beyond me. And the "achievement" was the killing of a few thousand people. Hardly something to be proud of. Get some of that patriotism poison out of your bloodstream; it confuses clear thinking. The world doesn't need claqueurs for half-brained politicians.

Join the service Friede. Then maybe you would understand. It's called commradery. Oh I know we have vets like myself here who probably hate Bush and the war as well. But I think deep down they're going to still pat them on the back regardless.

I only went after Bluetail because he seems to think that because since I'm in the minority here I should be restricted to what kind of threads I can post. Wrong answer! It's not going to happen. It will not happen. So he can get that burr out of his rectum right now.

As for clear thinking, well I don't think it's very unclear to know right and wrong or who's good and evil. Is there a risk at this type of black and white thinking? Of course! Hitler, Stalin and Pol Pot were B&W thinkers. But then again so was Lincoln, Ghandi, Churchill and FDR.

It's real easy to be passive. Anybody can do that. But the real courage is taking the risk on whether you're going to go down the black road or the white. Who knows? For all we know Iraq could very well end up a Democratic oasis and help stablize that area. And no not for oil either! That arguement is getting as old as Cognac!

But if everybody insists that it'll never happen, freedom is not for everybody and all these other defeatist mentalities that seem to permeate all over, well guess what? That's exactly what'll happen. We'll just end up dealing with more oppressive dictators and terrorists.

You think people like Cindy Sheehan are courageous? What's so courageous about opposing a war in a country that allows you to do so? If you want to show courage, go to Tehran and protest the anti-Semitic remarks from their current president. Or better yet, go march down the street of Pyongyang, North Korea and protest the atrocities going on there.

But nobody's going to do that now, right? But when somebody does "Oooh! They're just as evil as the oppressors!" Talk about confusion! And that my friends is why I'll stack the courage of soldiers up against any Western World war protestor. So kick back in your cozy flats or dorm rooms, these are the people who are really making a difference.

Edited by marktheshark