We -need- progressive rap.

Another point that has been suggested earlier but I think should be reiterated is that "progress" could come from the rap side OR it could come from the prog side. Prog itself might want to embrace certain elements of hip hop in order to keep its own spirit progressing. Perhaps it will be prog bands--perhaps those even on the fringes of prog--who will bring the "prog" to hip hop or rap. Artist/musician/producers such as Bill Laswell have been trying this for a little while now. His band Praxis has gone through several mutations that have truly combined metal, funk, prog structures and virtuousity and, yes, even rap--often at the same time. Whether that makes it "prog-rap" or not, I don't know. But it points to how the evolution could develop.

Someone else also pointed to Mr. Bungle and Primus. Especially considering the latter, I don't think anyone can question the virtuosity and prog cerdentials of Primus. And because of Les Claypool's limited vocal skills, he sings in not quite a rap style (more of a carnival barker style), but again points in a direction that prog rap could take. It may or may not be there just yet, but it certainly seems that there are ways it could travel and that the whole endeavor is neither impossible nor necessarily aesthetically abhorent.... 

speaking of which, why? is also great progressive hip-hop

bottom line, if you believe that hip-hop is never going to progress past its current incarnation, then you have a seriously limited conception of what the future holds. and by the future, i'm thinking even five, ten years from now. hip-hop is a baby, musically speaking, compared to rock, which has been cultivated and evolving for many decades. and the floodgates are starting to crack open for true innovation, mark my words. for yet more examples, look to the "grime" scene in the UK for some really forward-looking rap.

Progressive rap, hmm its a bit strange and I don't see how it could work without incorporating bad, bad work which don't belong in the prog world.

con safo wrote: WHY.............WWWWHYYYYYY

...can we never be sure till we die?

con safo wrote: WHY.............WWWWHYYYYYY

 

Is this spot the song competition? Then I would say Tom Jones' Delilah!

 

To answer the question: because it is F***ing progressive music, and music that doesn't progress, e.g. by avoiding change and not  hybriding with ANY other form  music, is RETRO, and I don't want to spend all my music listening time living the past, I'm greedy for the next great innovation and  tired of regurgitations/increasingly poor imitations of the old.

And how could rap become prog?

Better to be narrowminded and a snob, than ever to think rap has even the slightest possibility of ever becoming (c)rap.

PS i'm not narrowminded, but i do have my own opinions, and as for a snob.....ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

 

dream_orchestra wrote: And how could rap become prog? Better to be narrowminded and a snob, than ever to think rap has even the slightest possibility of ever becoming (c)rap. PS i'm not narrowminded, but i do have my own opinions, and as for a snob.....ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

*sigh*. Just to make it clear - I hate rap as much as the next guy. But to rule out the possibility that hip hop ever could fuse with progressive rock in one way or another is completely ridiculous.

Why would it be better to be narrowminded and a snob than to be open to this possibility? Not quite following you on this point.  Nobody is telling you that you have to like whatever the result would be. I know I won't.

If death metal vocals and prog is a possible combination, then I can't see why rap could be one also. I'm sure that somewhere, there exists actual musicians who make hip hop.

Rust wrote: You all know that the idea of fusing prog and rap is just as, if not more, crazy and innovative as the idea was back in the 60's to fuse rock and classical music. Not accurate, since before Rock was born, there were Jazz musicians blending Classical influence with their music.  I know you all also know that rock and classical music styles fused together are really good, this is an opinion I know, but no doubt that the majority of us that listen to prog, really do like atleast one symphonic prog band. I for one like several. I like most. Conclusion, prog and rap is exactly what music neds if it want's to progress as much as it did in the 70's. I may admit the chance that it's possible that some weird form of Rap or Hip Hop blends with Prog' to vreate something totally different to Hip Hop or Rap, but honestly, we don't need progressive Rap, By the way and for one more time, Progressive ROCK as a genre doesn't has any relation with Progress or evolution, it's just a name for a genre. And I believe Rap or Hip Hop is not evolution but involutioin of music. Just look what progressive qualities and ideas did to rock and roll, imagine what progressive thinking can do to a genre of music like rap that is more developed than rock was in the 60's when it was introduced to progressive thinking. Rap more developed than Rock in the 60's? What about Zappa, Beach Boys, Beatles, Rollingn Stones, The Who, etc, allof them were makeing more developed music (using melody, rhythm and harmony) than Rap as a genre.

If Prog blends withRap or Hip Hop, we'll loose both, Rap or Hip Hop (Not a great problem for me) and Prog, which will loose their unique qualities and turn into anything but Prog.

Yesterday I watched 10 minutes of the Billboard Awards, all was Rap and Hip Hop and honestly all was crap IMO.

Iván

ivan_2068 wrote: Rust wrote: You all know that the idea of fusing prog and rap is just as, if not more, crazy and innovative as the idea was back in the 60's to fuse rock and classical music. Not accurate, since before Rock was born, there were Jazz musicians blending Classical influence with their music.  I know you all also know that rock and classical music styles fused together are really good, this is an opinion I know, but no doubt that the majority of us that listen to prog, really do like atleast one symphonic prog band. I for one like several. I like most. Conclusion, prog and rap is exactly what music neds if it want's to progress as much as it did in the 70's. I may admit the chance that it's possible that some weird form of Rap or Hip Hop blends with Prog' to vreate something totally different to Hip Hop or Rap, but honestly, we don't need progressive Rap, By the way and for one more time, Progressive ROCK as a genre doesn't has any relation with Progress or evolution, it's just a name for a genre. And I believe Rap or Hip Hop is not evolution but involutioin of music. Just look what progressive qualities and ideas did to rock and roll, imagine what progressive thinking can do to a genre of music like rap that is more developed than rock was in the 60's when it was introduced to progressive thinking. Rap more developed than Rock in the 60's? What about Zappa, Beach Boys, Beatles, Rollingn Stones, The Who, etc, allof them were makeing more developed music (using melody, rhythm and harmony) than Rap as a genre. If Prog blends withRap or Hip Hop, we'll loose both, Rap or Hip Hop (Not a great problem for me) and Prog, which will loose their unique qualities and turn into anything but Prog. Yesterday I watched 10 minutes of the Billboard Awards, all was Rap and Hip Hop and honestly all was crap IMO. Iván

I wasn't talking about the mainstream btw. And I do think I was wrong about how rap progressed more than rock.

Jacques Loussier made Bach swing.

The jazz band Mousetrap actually recorded a very good album based on disco rhythms.

Anything is possible.

And Ivan, your remark about hip-hop at the Billboard Awards has no place here. Imagine the term 'prog', in all its vagueness, making its way into the general public and receiving its own category at the Billboard Awards. Who do you think would be nominated? I say Muse, System of a Down, and Nightwish. Now just how much would these bands tell you about prog?