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70sSoundquality 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 18 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 137
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 Posted: December 05 2005 at 12:29 |
 tremulant wrote:
It really annoys me how(e )
alot of the people posting don't even bother to read the full thread
before bashing Wrath_of_Ninian.
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Why do I need to sit and read through 3 pages of this when all I need to reply to is the initial post?
tremulant wrote:
If those people had read the whole
thread perhaps they would realise that Wrath_of_Ninian is actually
being open minded and is giving good arguements into a discussion.
No need to be rude (yes I'm looking at you 70sSoundquality). Don't be idiots.
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Yes, and arguing about how good or bad a guitar player is on an
internet forum is really f**king brilliant. How about trying to be
original ourselves?
But saying Steve Howe's playing post CTTE became "inane practice sessions of
relentless arpeggios and cramming notes a al Maria Carey on
anti-depressants" isn't rude? I'd like to see Wrath say that to Howe's face. Of course, since it is such a good argument.
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Proglover
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 09 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 416
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Posted: December 05 2005 at 12:35 |
Wrath_of_Ninian wrote:
Right, I've just about had enough of Steve Howe. I used to really like Yes, but I cannot listen to them anymore because of Steve Howe's inane weedling. I LOVE Close To The Edge, I LOVE Fragile, and I LOVE the Yes Album, but my all time favourite Yes album was always Going For The One. Unfortunately I've started to get irritated by Howe's playing on it, and now I can barely listen to it without grinding my teeth and drumming my fingers in agitation.
I knew things had started to go wrong on Topographic Oceans - gone were the delicate atmospheric touches, the ghostly sounds, the meaningful attack, the sheer gorgeous melody, and in their place came....inane practice sessions of relentless arpeggios and cramming notes a al Maria Carey on anti-depressants. Then things, got really bad. He started to peek through the layers of my second favourite Yes album, Relayer - already suffering from the lack of Wakeman, but beautifully balanced and pitched with no instruments really dominating - the Howe effect started to ruin it for me. Utterly pointless fret runs replaced any melody, whilst the SOUND of his guitar is just bloody awful. My First Guitar Amp. Ear-melting shrill and totally at odds to the brilliant ambience created by Moraz and Squire.
THEN, oh God, I NEVER thought it could happen - I started in small doses, noticing his inanity on Going For The One - his guitar runs, his pointless overworked licks, his sheer audacity in standing outside the immense vision of the rest of the band. His 'slide' contribution to the title track is ear-grating enough, but his doddering open to Turn Of The Century is contemptable. Indeed, I'm convinced Jon Anderson just gets bored and comes in half way through it. Listen to it, you'll see what I mean. I think Parallels was actually Howe's composition, and listen to the solo in it. Its utterly awful, bending fruitlessly out of tune without any discernible relation to his own backing. Thank God he was curtailed for the epic Awaken. Somebody take that volume pedal off him.
In short, I hope this is contentious as the recent topics have been a little glib, but Howe represents everything that is WRONG with prog guitarists. His contributions to CTTE and Fragile were perfect, but after this time, he got totally carried away with his own technique-driven weedling, and in the process, the greatness of subsequent Yes albums was vastly reduced.
He should've spent a bit more time listening to Franco Mussida.....
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Obviously someone with a NARROW outlook on music.........
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Proglover
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 09 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 416
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Posted: December 05 2005 at 12:39 |
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STEVE HOWE IS A GUITAR GOD!!!!..................MOVING ON!!
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: December 05 2005 at 12:47 |
Its pointless resurecting threads where the original poster doent post anymore...he can't pozxsiblt defend his view! 
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70sSoundquality
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 18 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 137
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Posted: December 05 2005 at 13:16 |
Snow Dog wrote:
Its pointless resurecting threads where the original
poster doent post anymore...he can't pozxsiblt defend his view! |
Yeah really. Where is he anyway?? Wrath? You there?
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greenback
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: August 14 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 3300
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Posted: December 05 2005 at 13:20 |
we are living in a world where the best progressive...
...album is yes- close to the edge
...keyboardist is wakeman
...guitarist is howe
...singer is anderson
....bassist is squire
....lyrics are close to the edge
probably just because close to the edge is at the first place.....
why not just add: the prettiest prog musician is steve howe!
LEARN, SHEEPS!
Edited by greenback
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[HEADPINS - LINE OF FIRE: THE RECORD HAVING THE MOST POWERFUL GUITAR SOUND IN THE WHOLE HISTORY OF MUSIC!>
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RoyalJelly
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 29 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 582
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Posted: December 05 2005 at 14:00 |
greenback wrote:
i reapeat what i've said numerous times in the past:
howe's sound is absolutely pityful, especially when he uses no pedal effect! the worst neo prog guitarist has a better sound than him. however, he is a VERY talented guitarist: one of the most original & talented prog guitarists...
his second weakness is that he terribly lacks fluidity, as reveals his solo on sound chaser, for instance.
if you do not agree that howe's sound is bad, then it is because you do not have expertise regarding guitar sounds. YOU ARE FORGIVEN, just if you don't write any further inexact comment here regarding his sound!
if you think that the best guitarists for the quality of the sound are:`
steve howe
greg lake
daryl stuermer
robert fripp
kayak's
radiohead's
instead of:
alex lifeson
steve rothery
david gilmour
steve hackett
then you should follow a course about "how to recognize the best guitar sounds"
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Thank you, Mr. Music Scholar, for setting us poor sheep straight. Now we all know with certainty that David Gilmour is a better guitarist than either Howe or Fripp. I don't know what music school you went to, but I'll be sure to enroll my kids there, so arrogant schmucks like you can dumb them down. And thank you so much for forgiving us for our pitiful stupidity and appreciation of original, talented guitar virtuosos!!!
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Manunkind
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 02 2005
Location: Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 2373
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Posted: December 05 2005 at 14:11 |
greenback wrote:
we are living in a world where the best progressive...
...album is yes- close to the edge
...keyboardist is wakeman
...guitarist is howe
...singer is anderson
....bassist is squire
....lyrics are close to the edge
probably just because close to the edge is at the first place.....
why not just add: the prettiest prog musician is steve howe!
LEARN, SHEEPS!
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LEARN, ENGLISH!
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"In war there is no time to teach or learn Zen. Carry a strong stick. Bash your attackers." - Zen Master Ikkyu Sojun
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Proglover
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 09 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 416
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Posted: December 05 2005 at 15:31 |
greenback wrote:
i reapeat what i've said numerous times in the past:
howe's sound is absolutely pityful, especially when he uses no pedal effect! the worst neo prog guitarist has a better sound than him. however, he is a VERY talented guitarist: one of the most original & talented prog guitarists...
his second weakness is that he terribly lacks fluidity, as reveals his solo on sound chaser, for instance.
if you do not agree that howe's sound is bad, then it is because you do not have expertise regarding guitar sounds. YOU ARE FORGIVEN, just if you don't write any further inexact comment here regarding his sound!
if you think that the best guitarists for the quality of the sound are:`
steve howe
greg lake
daryl stuermer
robert fripp
kayak's
radiohead's
instead of:
alex lifeson
steve rothery
david gilmour
steve hackett
then you should follow a course about "how to recognize the best guitar sounds"
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I can honestly say I have no idea what the hell you are talking about.
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Tigereye
Forum Newbie
Joined: December 03 2005
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 15
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Posted: December 05 2005 at 16:45 |
Wrath_of_Ninian wrote:
... However your summation that I have 'issues' with Howe is utterly precise - I'm 32 now, and as a growing teen in the 90s got into Yes, who provided the backdrop to some of my more colourful developing years (ahem!). Upon trying to relive some of those moments through listening to the same albums, I found that Howe suddenly stood out as a horrible example of guitar-playing gone wrong. I suddenly found myself listening to it and cringing when I put it on in the room with other people. But most horrifically of all, I found it carved a great chunk out of the magic (I know, what a crap word - and you call me articulate!!) of the work as a whole... |
I know what you mean, and I had the same experience at a similar age. I grew up listening to their wonderful music through the '70s, and thought Tales was the absolute peak of what they did. I think I actually lost interest in them because Rick Wakeman had left the band, although Moraz's "noises" added a new dimension to the band's sound (I even bought his solo album "i" on the strength of Relayer). I also think Howe's change of sound on Relayer actually was in keeping with, and a part of, the overall sound change that happened with the changeover from Wakeman to Moraz, and the sound didn't appeal to me, although I enjoyed and appreciated much of what Howe was doing on that album. I did stop buying their albums after that, as they also seemed to have lost (or at least given a back seat to) the visionariness (if that's a word) of their music throughout the '70s.
Fortunately, I started listening to them again in my mid-40s, and was lucky (nay, blessed) to see them perform live here in Australia a couple of years ago (I missed them the last time they were here 30-odd years ago!) It was a long wait, but worth it, and the highlight of the show was to hear Awaken performed live.
So, I guess what I'm saying is give yourself time, you'll come back to him with new ears.
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Norbert
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 20 2005
Location: Hungary
Status: Offline
Points: 2506
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Posted: December 06 2005 at 02:52 |
I really like Steve Howe's playing on Relayer, and I don't believe that he completely overshadows the other band members.
Awaken has one of the best solos ever.
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Steve Howe (post-CTTE) is rubbish
