Steve Howe (post-CTTE) is rubbish

Blacksword wrote: Give me Steve Hackett or Alex Lifeson any day of the week!

Just been digging around & couldn't believe the blasphemy of this thread!!

Steve Howe is a genius-period! This guy has won more awards for his talent than any other prog guitarist you care to mention.FACT! And i'm talking about awards voted for by his contempories not your run of the mill 'fan' awards.

I once met Max Bacon [GTR] & I asked him who was the most talented out of the two Steves? Without hesitation he said 'Howe' Far more accomplished and technically superior.

Lifeson is the Francis Rossi of Prog!

PS. Max Bacon is now singing in working men's clubs as a cabaret singer!

Edited by Progger

Wrath_of_Ninian wrote: alan_pfeifer wrote: Wrath_of_Ninian wrote: alan_pfeifer wrote: I really like Relayer, but moreso for White.  But that's another post.  It can be tough at times to deal with his more techinical playing on some songs, espescially Gates. However, that Guitar line at the "Soon" portion of the song saves it. Yes, White is immense - indeed, the whole band (bar Howe) are immense - its a great album.  Howe does have a couple of good moments on Relayer, like the one you mention, but his sound is still hellish.  Why is he so high up in the mix??  By the way, I think what 'saves' it are Moraz's keyboards and the beauty of Anderson's voice. I think what had happened was an overblow of egos, mainly starting off at Tales.  Think about it: your'e a guitarist in one of the most successful bands of the time period.  You've just come off a great tour for an album that's been accepted well both criticaly and sales- wise (CTTE).  Who's ego wouldn't be huge after a thing like that? Second, after Tales, Which Howe and Anderson wrote with minimal input from the band, I think the feeling they had on Tales, which was Anderson, Howe and Company, was still there when they went into record Relayer.  As attitudes tend to linger, so do playing styles (IMO) and Howe may have felt Compelled to up the ante on this album (due to the poor reception Tales had) or maybe he wanted to show that he was up there in skill with some of the heavy hitters of Rock music at the time (Page for example). So, in the end, it all comes down to opinion, but I still think that Howe on Relayer, while unpleasant at times, helped to shape relayer into the wonderful album it is. Thats an interesting point about Tales, and I didn't know that.  I'd always thought it was their collective magnificent octopus, and that each member was widely regarded as having reached their creative and performing peaks during the making of it.  Now, when I think about it, Howe's influence is plainly apparent, and perhaps that is the point where it snaps for me.  I also didn't know that Tales was 'poorly received', as you put it.  Was this by Yes fans, critics, or by the public in general?  After the gargantuan success of previous albums I imagine this could do strange things to a guitarist's ego.  I'd also assumed that Howe's 'upping the ante' was down to Wakeman's departure, but perhaps this is not so.  Certainly Howe's performance on Going For The One is marginally more considered, if still unnecessarily complex in places - perhaps there is evidence that we were getting the old Wakeman/Howe trade-off back?

Well, the point on Tales is moreso with critics AND Yes fans (Just look at the variying reviews of the album on the site.  The Wakeman point was new too, hadn't really thought of it that way.

Wrath_of_Ninian wrote:   Unfortunately I've started to get irritated by Howe's playing on it, and now I can barely listen to it without grinding my teeth and drumming my fingers in agitation.

We all really give a damn.

Wrath_of_Ninian wrote: I knew things had started to go wrong on Topographic Oceans - gone were the delicate atmospheric touches, the ghostly sounds, the meaningful attack, the sheer gorgeous melody, and in their place came....inane practice sessions of relentless arpeggios and cramming notes a al Maria Carey on anti-depressants.  Then things, got really bad.  He started to peek through the layers of my second favourite Yes album, Relayer - already suffering from the lack of Wakeman, but beautifully balanced and pitched with no instruments really dominating - the Howe effect started to ruin it for me.  Utterly pointless fret runs replaced any melody..

If all you get from post CTTE Yes is "inane practice sessions of relentless arpeggios and cramming notes a al Maria Carey on anti-depressants" then you are pathetic. Perhaps your ears are fooling you. Maybe you have some cohesive 20-minute compositions you would like to share?

Wrath_of_Ninian wrote: whilst the SOUND of his guitar is just bloody awful.  My First Guitar Amp.  Ear-melting shrill and totally at odds to the brilliant ambience created by Moraz and Squire.

It's called a 50's Telecaster into a really teched out Showman or Twin. But the minimoog isn't shril? Nor the optigon? Give me a freakin' break.

Wrath_of_Ninian wrote: THEN, oh God, I NEVER thought it could happen - I started in small doses, noticing his inanity on Going For The One - his guitar runs, his pointless overworked licks, his sheer audacity in standing outside the immense vision of the rest of the band.

To quote somebody else here; you are a fool. I have this great video of Yes in the studio in 1977 working on Going for the One. Hearing the songs go from crude and rough to professional and mastered is an amazing thing in and of itself. You are childish, unappreciative, and lack the freedom necesarry to grasp this kind of "post CTTE " music in the first place. 

Wrath_of_Ninian wrote: In short, I hope this is contentious as the recent topics have been a little glib, but Howe represents everything that is WRONG with prog guitarists.

And you represent everything that is wrong with retarded internet-drones. Why dont you pick up a copy of Tormato and take some mushrooms eh?

yes and yes sucks 

     Thank you for sharing your opinion, hopefully you can
recognize that it is merely AN opinion. Some of the stuff you
criticize is IMHO the best Steve Howe, really focused and
groundbreaking, and far from noodling, especially Relayer,
that's a musician who knows exactly what he's doing. Your
idolatry of Wakeman shows well enough where your musical
priorities lie, and I'd concede that the band's downfall began
really with Going for the One, and Wakeman's return. Maybe
one must be a musician to appreciate Mr. Howe's
achievements, but the very contributions you find so irritating
are among the most sublime guitaristic achievements in
progressive music, just ask any accomplished guitarist.

     I think Steve Howe's had about enough of you as well!!!

I'd have to agree with Bluetailfly and anyone else who applauds Howe's guitar work. I have liked pretty much every minute of it and the tracks on Going For The One are very emotional work. That slide that is put down doesn't bother me in the least...perhaps Howe was trying to advance the sound of Yes. And, who knows, maybe Anderson asked him to. For me, their downfall did not begin with Going...I think Going just forstalled it. 90215, despite the mainstream popularity it brought them, diluted the sound and, instead of sounding like a band trying to advance, it sounded like a band trying to join a movement they didn't belong in. I won't quite say they were trying to cash in on whatever trend was going on at the time, because I don't think they could ever do that (Yes as Punk, for example), but it didn't sound sincere.

Having said all that, his first solo release was pretty much ruined by his vocals...who ever he listened to that said to go ahead with it was a Yes man to the hilt...and I don't mean the band.

Technical virtuousity is one thing...the ability to play and such, but to say someone is wrong because they like a certain sound is pretty silly. Music is art, art is subjective, if you like it you like it and that is it. I am not a guitar player, but I listen to enough music to know good from bad, I think. To say Steve Howe's 'sound' is bad is pretty wide open...if you have this knowledge about guitar playing you say you do, maybe you could be a bit more exact.

I would think that most would agree Howe is very technically proficient, all the guitar poles he wins in guitar magazines and such would attest to that as well.

chopper wrote: "Lifeson is the Francis Rossi of Prog!" - what the hell does that mean?

I think he means that Lifeson is just basically a 'chord' player and not a great soloist. Sorry, but I would agree. Trying to think of a decent solo from Lifeson and I'm struggling!

Tommy wrote: chopper wrote: "Lifeson is the Francis Rossi of Prog!" - what the hell does that mean? I think he means that Lifeson is just basically a 'chord' player and not a great soloist. Sorry, but I would agree. Trying to think of a decent solo from Lifeson and I'm struggling!

Freewill, Closer to the heart, Different Strings, By-Tor and the Snow Dog, Lakeside Park, Spirit of Radio, etc etc.

One of the most imaginative soloists around, I reckon.