Complex time signatures?

My (varied) musical experience has tought me that even amateur musicians don't have to stretch themselves to much in order to compose, arrange & perform music in complex time signatures: 5/8, 7/8, 9/8, 11/8, etc....

So what is all the fuss about them? Time signatures are meaningless!! Some music in 9/8 is easy to play & at the same time some music in 4/4 is almost impossible to play.

And don't talk to me about shifting from 3/8 to 7/4 half way though a bar, or having a 4/4 guitar line playing against a 5/8 rhythm, with an 11/4 piano in the background!! Cause it's all lemon squeazy to me!!

chopper wrote: but try drumming along with Genesis' "Apocalypse in 9/8" without counting - not so easy.

I can do that!

Maybe a straight 7/4 may not impress you ... how about a piece where two musicians are playing according to two different time signatures and only overlap occasionally ... like one guy in 13/8 another in 5/8 but occasionally the patterns come together

I must say I once wrote a largely instrumental piece multi-time signature piece so difficult for the band to play that the lyrics were written in recognition of the chaos of the piece! ... we only got it right 1/3 of the time despite playing it on and off for 4 years!

Trotsky wrote: Maybe a straight 7/4 may not impress you ... how about a piece where two musicians are playing according to two different time signatures and only overlap occasionally ... like one guy in 13/8 another in 5/8 but occasionally the patterns come together I must say I once wrote a largely instrumental piece multi-time signature piece so difficult for the band to play that the lyrics were written in recognition of the chaos of the piece! ... we only got it right 1/3 of the time despite playing it on and off for 4 years!

Music that uses time signatures in a way that is too outrageous never sounds good. It is therefore unimpressive. Music is only impressive if it is good.

Now i'm into chaotic music, but music that is too OTT just gives me a head ache. And i wouldn't even describe 'musique concrete' as being OTT.

The chaos of the piece that you wrote (not to mention your inability to get it right more than a third of the time) must indicate to you how pointless it is to make over-complex music just for the sake of it. Complex musical techniques should be employed to enhance the music, not to make it unlistenable & unplayable, just for the sake of complexity.

There's a fine line between music & noise. When a band crosses that line, i think it is time for them to give up. Before they enter the realms of ultra-pretentiousness.

Besides, i've always believed that music isn't about showing off, to me it's about sharing.

I belive that time signitures are a pretty good metaphor for the spirit of prog. Now one would like to belive that artist write in odd time signitures not to be writing in  weird meters, but because that is the feel they want or that is how a melodic line they hear fits. One would hope to belive that this is true; that it is a thoughtful decision as opposed to just doing it to be different. Obviously there are artists that dont think like this, and really do it just to be doing it. This is more prominant with younger musicians and amateurs. A great example is DT's When Dream and Day Unite. In this debut album, a lot of it seems forced . But in their later albums, the time signitures seem more natrual and apropriat.

Now my point is this: The use of odd meters and odd meter changes allows freedom. If an artist is hearng the begining of the line in 5/4 but the end of it in9/8, then he can do that. It is this type of freedom that is the spirit of progressive rock. Prog bands hear their music out of a verse/chorus/verse form. so they dont use that form, they do what they hear. If they hear a 5 minute instrmental section, they do it.

Prog is about total freedom for the artist to do what he feels is rockin \m/

Improvising would be more difficult in unusual time signatures. If you had practiced your licks in different keys (church modes?) then had to use different time sig. it would add another thick layer of complexity. Probably why most Rock and Jazz is done in 4/4.

But if you want to hear different time signatures done well invest in Dave Brubeck's Time Out. This is a Jazz swing group from the late 50's. Each song is a different time signature and they can swing in any of them.

Ipacial Section wrote: *Still not impressed*

What ever.