We -need- progressive rap.

con safo wrote: And the notion that there is more popular hip hop than underground is absolutely ludicrous, and honestly i can't understand how you're still argueing it after being proven so very wrong. And no i'm not talking about every kid out there trying to be 50 cent but actually legitimate recording artists.

Please, have you been following this thread? Do you know where it all started?

Ty1020 affirms that most rap underground bands are great and that only the radio stuff is crappy. I don't care how many unknown rap bands there are, but nobody will come here and say that all the rap bands we don't know are great and that radio crap doesn't represent the rap genre.

Rap is represented by every Rap band in radio as much as by any underground and secret wonder that maybe could exist.

So take your time before jumping into the ring.

Iván

Please ConSafo, you know all this artists represent the genre, all we hear in radio and TV is recognized as Rap,  maybe there's another version of rap only for experts but I haven't heard it. There's also good and terrible Prog, and all represent the genre.

If you are fan of a genre, you must accept there are good and bad things on it, and sadly all the rap muusic availlable for the normal person is crap.

How easy would it be to say Ok man Trilogy is Prog but Love Beach is not, for God's sake, both are Prog, one iss good and the other one sucks, that's all.

Iván

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Sometihng that has been said a few times since my last post is that Rap music is mainly about the Lyrics, andr Rythm. it is also less intelligent and does not have musical virtuosity.

I think these people are missing the point. What we mean is taking the ideals and styles of Prog and Rap and combining them

In a nutshell:

Music with a solid rythmic based feel, that is progressivly changing in style and time meter

Intelligent heartfelt lyrics that are rapped in a raping style

long solo passages and intricate viruostic playing with the groove and feel of hip hop

I might be missing some points, but give me a brake its pretty late...

Ty1020 wrote: Lateralus_66 wrote: Is it possible to mix pop and progressive? NO - Then what do you call Asia, Styx, Supertramp, and so on? Asia, Supertramp and Styx are not a mixture of Prog and Pop (Well I don't believe Supertramp is Prog except for a couple of somngs), Asia and Styx played in the borderline that divides mainstream from Progressive Rock but never mixed POP and Prog elements they simply did some Prog songs and others Not Prog, probably closer to mainstream, but not necesarilly POP. Is it possible to mix same rap beat and sophisticated time signatures? NO - Why not? A rap song in 7/8 or 5/4 would not only be entirely possible, but would also probably be rather interesting to listen to. I'm sure it's already been done numerous times. Would be possible,  would probabbly be interesting, I'm sure it's been done, blah blah blah, all posibilities and not demonstrated facts, not a very strong argument Does it have RAP “talented musicians who work with virtuosity”? NO - There are plenty of rap groups who are made up of talented musicians. The Roots, anybody? Again plenty, but who?  I admit there's a chance, but still haven't been introduced to any of this strange phenomenums of nature. Another post based on a very limited knowledge of the genre. Next, please. Until now I believed you were only a rap fan with good intentions but now you graduated as a complete pedant, Limited knowledge??? Who you believe you are? The owner of the musical Holy Grial??? Next please??? What have you proved, ask all the members of this or any Prgressive Rock forum if they believe in the psossibility of Progressive Rap the percentage will amaze you, in other forums people won't be as polite as here. You keep talking about great Rap bands, but who, where and when? If you ask here for great Prog Bands, probably most members will give you at least 100 names. If you ask here for great Classic Rock bands, people will be able to give you at least 100 names Maybe a less number but still valuable Folk, Jazz, Fusion etc. But you keep talking about secret and mysterious great Rap bands that only experts in the genre know. I'm starting to believe there's a secret conspiracy to keep great rap only for secret society. Moreover, you just tried to compare rap with progressive rock. Obviously the two are not immediately compatible; rock is rock and rap is rap. We were talking about the possibility of progressive rap, not progressive rock-rap or anything like that. Well, call us when this is real, we're talking about reality not about utopic dreams, and by my part, I believe this is enough, I'm tired of talking about a genre that TODAY has no relation with Progressive Rock, and I hope will never have.

Iván

EDIT:

progressive rap, not progressive rock-rap or anything like that.

I didn't noticed this gem, for your information, this is a forum dedicated to PROGRESSIVE ROCK as a genre, Progressive is an adjective you can add to any band that you believe has gone beyond common mainstream.

If you're not talking about PROGRESSIVE ROCK GENRE, there is another reason to forget this thread, we're talking two different languages.

Rap sucks and that's all there is to it.  Rap cannot progress because rapping is talking in rhythm, what would you do to revolutionize it, rhythm-talk faster?  I think Busta Rhymes did that and it ended up sucking even worse.  I've heard underground hip-hop such as Zion-I and other stuff but it's basically the same thing, just with more musical and complex backgrounds which are mainly SAMPLED.  One of the main attributes that defines rap is the ability to dance, move, or bob your head up and down repeatedly to the 4/4 rhythm, it's all about feeling the groove and I'm sorry but it's simply impossible to do with any other time signature.  Another reason that progressive-rap is impossible is that there is simply no audience for it.  There is simply no demand for progressive-rap music because people who listen to rap don't care about music, they just care about the words, concepts, or feelings of being 'hard' or 'cool' when listening to it.  It's basically just to make little suburban white kids feel like they're more bad-ass.  Plus most rap listeners, and I say most, going back to the limited audience argument, are incapable of demanding a new or boundary-breaking form of music because most of them have a limited amount of brain cells and are incapable of envisioning anything other than the status quo, i.e. the next 50-cent song that talks about new hoes, new models of cars with a new 5 second beat to repeat itself 500 times!  I guarantee if progressive rap came out, rap fans everywhere would proclaim its "wackness" and would not be interested in it because it hasn't passed the PEER Review test of at least a million Americans, which if it did, they would certainly think it was cool, because rap fans are TREND FOLLOWERS.  It would simply be too hard for these trend followers to switch gears and start a new trend.  Not many are adventurous enough on their own to go off the beaten path and start listening to something else.  Keep in mind these are the same people who watch MTV and see the new "sick" rapper and just have to have the album.    

You guys asked if it was possible and I gave a pretty coherent argument as to why it isn't.  Asking if progressive-rap is possible is almost like asking if progressive country or progressive boy-bands are possible.  Sure it's probably possible if someone was to REALLY try at it, but would me or anyone else want to listen to it, NO.