We -need- progressive rap.

^Word of the day^

f**k,there was one post between us

I really dont know what question youre talking about.But i say again,we dont need progressive rap!And i really meant,you came between the post i was refering to.I cant for my life see why this has turned into such a discussion,there is probably four people who thinks we need progressive rap.There cant be such a thing as progressive rap,end of topic.And i mean end of topic.

Ty 1020 wrote:

Like I said, I've never heard prog on the radio. Just because the radio played good music 30 years ago doesn't mean it still does; you have to realize that the mainstream media today is much different than it was in the 70's, and it's very rare to hear anything good or interesting on the radio

I know that, but just in this moment I'm listening Birds of Fire by Mahavishnu Orchestra in Stereo Lima 100, and never heard in any radio good rap.

Ty1020 wrote:

This is even more true with rap, a genre in which virtually none of the mainstream artists have any redeeming qualities. The majority of the rap community hates those "artists

Have you ever studied logics? Please read your arguments.  Rap community is the biggest in the world right know, if not N° 1 at least N°2, that's a fact.

You say most Rap community hates mainstream artists.

Then using simple logic most people in the world hate mainstrean Rap artists:

• Why in hell does Music Industry still release music that most of the world hates?
• How in hell is mainstream Rap music so massively bought if most Rap community hates them?
• Doesn't music industry wants to gain money?
• If you said yes, why do they insist in musicians most of the rap community hates (but buys massively.

Your argument has no logic support, and you're talking as a fan more than as a person who wants to reach some degree of truth. I'm a Progressive fan fopr 28 years, and I must accept Prog is unpopular and underground, but not just good Prog', bad Prog is also unpopular, but Rap is popular, the Rap community is big and buys mainstream..........PLEASE

There are far more underground rap artists out there than there are mainstream ones

Please again????????? Why in that case mainstream Rap sells milliopns of albums among a community that in it's mmajority hates it????????

Why are great Rap bands so underground that almost nobody has heard about them if they are so popular?

If good Rap band fans were more than mainstream Rap fans, Music Industry would inmediately stop wasting their money in crappy musicians, because they want to earn money  and they automatically support what is more popular.

But they still support he career of crappy musicians and are more wealthy everyday.

Again, please think before you write.

I'm glad you're aware that good rap is out there

Never said that either, I said I admit the posibility of good Rap as I admit the posibility of aliens living under the surface of Mars, professional wrestling is for real or that women burn in Salem were in fact witches

Finally, would you please explain why you stand by that point of view?

In what I heard and in simple logic.

The most popular music is supported by music industry, if good rap was more popular (or even existed) we would never hear again about Eminem, MC Hammer or Queen Latifa.

Iván

Edited by ivan_2068

Ivan: Again, there's been a miscommunication on my part. When I referred to the "rap community," I meant people who actually listen to rap as music and appreciate it, not the people who listen to radio rap like 50 Cent just because it's popular. Those people aren't rap fans - they're popular music fans. If rap wasn't popular, most of them wouldn't listen to it, and therefore I do not include them as a part of the rap community.

Why in hell does Music Industry still release music that most of the world hates? How in hell is mainstream Rap music so massively bought if most Rap community hates them? Doesn't music industry wants to gain money? If you said yes, why do they insist in musicians most of the rap community hates (but buys massively.

I didn't say most of the world hates rap; once again, you misunderstood me. Just because mainstream rap is terrible doesn't mean there aren't a lot of people who like it. Britney Spears sells millions of records despite the fact that she is terrible, and the same goes for guys like 50 Cent and the like. However, it's clear that most serious music listeners (rap fans and non-rap fans alike) can't stand them.

Mainstream rap music is massively bought by the pop community, not the rap community, as I said before. People are sheep, they'll buy what's marketed to them, and at the moment, that's what rap is. However, there are many real fans of rap who listen to it because they love it, and if you can find any of those true fans who like mainstream rap, I'll be surprised.

Yes, the music industry wants to gain money.

I've already explained that mainstream rap isn't marketed to rap fans, it's marketed to people who don't know any better, who would buy anything that the music industry tried to sell them.

Now, I've posted this several times and nobody has responded to it yet, which is probably because nobody can come up with a reasonable response. Please, if you're going to respond to anything I've written, respond to this:

I don't understand why everone here is trying to pidgeon-hole rap and create artificial rules about what can and cannot be done within the genre. Progressive music is all about not following such rules; it's about thinking outside the box and trying new things. Why are so many of you acting as if that's impossible in this case? It doesn't make any sense to me.


Edited by Ty1020

Man Overboard wrote: I don't think it would be beyond feasibility to rap in odd time signatures...

Steve Coleman, linked from Mike's blog (by me ). Mainly jazz, but also a fair bit of rap and in certainly 5/4, maybe more.

Ivan: Again, there's been a miscommunication on my part. When I referred to the "rap community," I meant people who actually listen to rap as music and appreciate it, not the people who listen to radio rap like 50 Cent just because it's popular. Those people aren't rap fans - they're popular music fans. If rap wasn't popular, most of them wouldn't listen to it, and therefore I do not include them as a part of the rap community.

I know what you're trying to say, but I was only trying to reach this point when you admit crappy Rap is more popular and for that reason is the vast majority of the genre.

The point is that you love to argue but you get trapped in your own web because you refuse to admit that the great majority of Rap is the one played in the radios and it's crap. Each day the music industry creates hundreed of 50 cent Rappers, terible hip hopper and disposable boys/girls bands, that's a fact, they have the money, they own the mind of most people so they are more, as simple as that.

IMO most of the music played in radios is crap, so I have to admit that most music is not remotely connected to Progressive Rock.

Yes it's possible there's some good Rap but as most good music is the great minority.

But still I don't see Progressive Rap as a  posibility.

Iván

ivan_2068 wrote: Ivan: Again, there's been a miscommunication on my part. When I referred to the "rap community," I meant people who actually listen to rap as music and appreciate it, not the people who listen to radio rap like 50 Cent just because it's popular. Those people aren't rap fans - they're popular music fans. If rap wasn't popular, most of them wouldn't listen to it, and therefore I do not include them as a part of the rap community. I know what you're trying to say, but I was only trying to reach this point when you admit crappy Rap is more popular and for that reason is the vast majority of the genre. The point is that you love to argue but you get trapped in your own web because you refuse to admit that the great majority of Rap is the one played in the radios and it's crap. Each day the music industry creates hundreed of 50 cent Rappers, terible hip hopper and disposable boys/girls bands, that's a fact, they have the money, they own the mind of most people so they are more, as simple as that. IMO most of the music played in radios is crap, so I have to admit that most music is not remotely connected to Progressive Rock. Yes it's possible there's some good Rap but as most good music is the great minority. But still I don't see Progressive Rap as a  posibility. Iván

Maybe you have a different idea of what "majority" means than me... obviously mainstream rap is the most popular, I never tried to say it wasn't. That's what mainstream means. All I was saying was that there are more underground rap artists than there are popular ones, and that's a fact.

Now, you still haven't replied to the bolded statement in my previous post... it basically summarizes my entire argument and I'd really like to see what you have to say about it .


Edited by Ty1020

www.beaminfo.com

the band i was talking about before (page 1 i think...)

Ty1020 wrote: ivan_2068 wrote: And don't start again with your majority of great rap bands please, because any person knows that isn't true. I don't understand what you mean by that - it's not some random fact I'm trying to produce here, it's only natural that the majority of the bands in any given genre won't be popular. I'm not sure why you're arguing against that, nor do I understand why you've given such importance to that statement over the course of this argument, because there's no way you can possibly believe otherwise. The only thing I can think of is that you still don't understand what I'm saying, so I'll try to clarify myself further: do you actually think that most rap is popular and gets radio play? If so, then how many rap artists do you think are out there in total? I really don't understand what you're trying to say here . As for the rest of your post, I definitely see what you mean, and I agree that a lot of rap in its current form can't be fused with prog rock, but melodic rap does exist and I don't see why it's not possible for more melody and instrumentation to be added in order to make the genre more proggy. About the whole "rules" thing, I wasn't talking about the rules of prog rock, I was talking about the rules of rap; you seem to get the idea that melody has no place in the genre, which is simply untrue. Just because most mainstream rap artists refuse to use any melody in their music doesn't mean it can't be used in rap; the focus doesn't have to be on rhythm and "beats" or whatever. I believe that it would be entirely possible to have more melody-focused rap with odd time signatures (which would fit the genre perfectly) and more interesting instrumentation than is usually used in the genre, would it not?

I completely agree.