We -need- progressive rap.

Nipsey88 wrote: gdub411 wrote: Actually it has been done. Burnt Noodle raps in one of their songs with very experimental music going on in the backround Hmm, have heard the name but have never heard their stuff. I certainly will check it out now.

I must warn you. It is mostly improvisational music that happened to be recorded by a few musicians who were "noodling" around...hence the name.

some rather closed-minded opinions coming in here....

you really never know.  it's definitely possible.  there's a lot of great music around.  keep your ears open.

Never fallen in love with rap music!

DallasBryan wrote: Red Hot Chili Peppers and Faith No More come close!

RHCP

Faith No More ... They're OK, but prog-rap they are not.

@ivan--
It seems to me that you're thinking of some sort of hip-hop that sounds like progressive rock.  What I'm talking about is hip-hop that compares to normal rap in the same way that prog rock compares to normal rock.  Imagine a hip-hop group that uses special instruments, experiments with electronics and effects (beyond the standard ones), uses different vocal techniques (i.e. improvisation and effects), makes long epic songs with plenty of inventive beats, rhythm changes and instrumental interludes.  It would still sound like hip hop (or trip-hop), but it would be like nothing that's ever been done.  it's possible.

updated my post!

Bush - Deconstructed with more rap-style lyrics or
Buckethead - Colma, Primal
Scream with rap lyrics?

Ivan, makes a valid point.

Goth rap, music may have new avenues to explore!


Edited by DallasBryan

Well, it's not exactly what you're talking about, but with my "we do just jam sessions" band Ordine Geometrico Demonstrata, we are planning a session with an MC doing some freestyle on our improvised beats. Talk about improvised vocals, or prog-jam hip hop, or whatever you want. Also, with the same guy, I'm working on a single hip hop track which will blend time changes, dodecaphony and some organ solos.

We are just so f**kin' project

mr.burns wrote: No way,rap is for suckersI`m not really into categorising music,but if you mean rap like in talking lyrics and that other sh*t.No wayAnd by the way,before someone starts saying that i`m ignorant and so on.I really am not,its just that talking music is not something i see in the future for prog.

So explain to me how you're not ignorant, then.

And Ivan, what rap artists are you familar with? When you say that rap is fundamentally commercial, it leads me to believe that you've only heard the commercial rappers, none of whom I find to be representative of the genre as a whole. Underground rap isn't an exception at all, it represents the majority of music in the genre... just because most people haven't heard it doesn't mean there isn't a ton of it out there. It's like me hearing We Can't Dance and Owner of a Lonely Heart on the radio and judging prog based on that kind of thing. Obviously, as educated fans of the genre, we know that's not what prog is, but somebody could have the same attitude as you and refuse to believe that anything good is out there based on their bad experiences with the commercial side of the genre.

And for the record, underground (henceforth known as "good") rap artists and their fans dislike mainstream rap for the very same reasons we all do: it's musically uninteresting, the lyrics are generally terrible, and it's repetitive and derivative beyond belief. So before you go on dismissing these artists you've never bothered to actually listen to, perhaps it would help to know that they have the same philosophies regarding the genre that you do.

I'm not saying you have to become a rap fan all of a sudden, but I don't see why you're so adamantly against the idea of progressive rap. It's certainly possible; I'm sure it already exists in some form, somewhere out there. But for now, I don't see why you can't at least be open to the concept.


Edited by Ty1020

mr.burns wrote: iI knew this was comingThese days its so important to be politically correct!I cant rap contributing anything to prog music,and thats it.I think 90% of the people here,deep down agrees with me.For gods sake,taste the word.Rap,for crying out loud its rap.

Yes, and I should think that true fans of progressive music would embrace the idea of something completely new like this, but alas, our community's true closed-mindedness is showing through once again. It's clear that you don't even have a reason to be against it - your argument against rap is "it's rap." I'm perfectly aware of what it is, I just don't see what's wrong with it.

And who said anything about being politically correct? 

I've never met a rap band/artist I liked. But I'd like to.

The Roots, I've heard a little of their stuff, and it sounds pretty cool. I'd check them out, certainly.

 

I amend my previous statement: I do like some Outkast material, but I'd never call it "intelligent art music". I just wish rap could be a little more MUSICAL. As opposed to making "anthems" for teenagers who like to think they're sex gods? Wasn't rap originally supposed to be rebellious and innovative? Like punk, a little, it's now very crass and tame.

ivan_2068 wrote: Golden Spiral wrote: some rather closed-minded opinions coming in here....  Why closed minded? I judge Rap by the general rule, by the 100% of rap I listened, I know people always talk about some great obscure Rap bands, but nobody can create a sub-genre based in exceptions. The  essense of Rap is to be a mainly vocal style, created to be repetitive and absolutely commercial. There may be good rap? I don't know, not an expert but it's possible. Can I consider both genres can blend? No, a rap band that assumes Prog structure would cease to be Rap, in Rap the virtuosism of the musicians is not important (again there may be exceptions) but in Progressive Rock it's esential. I can listen and enjoy many genres of music but I don't find the need to try to mix water and oil when we know both have different densities (structure) and it's impossible. If you like Rap, OK, enjoy it, but don't try to convince people it can blend with Progressive Rock as a genre. And much less call closed minded to the ones that have been fans of an almost underground and unpopular genre for decades, listening something as Prog Rock that 99% of the people hate and/or ignore is far from being close minded. Iván

This is a completly ignorant statement. The essence of rap is actually the same as the essence of blues and gospel music. It comes straight form the heart. An expression of how the artist is feeling. very emotional. That is the essence of rap. Mainstream rap has taken that and made it crap. But to say the the purpose of rap is to be commercial is bullsh*t. This art was created in the days of HairMetal. I'm sure noone though of it as becoming mainstream music. It jsut happened like that

There is most defffinatly good rap somewhere out there.

Rap music can blend with any genre. If you take the same vocal and lyrical style and apply it to a prog band( but wiht a little more rap/hiphop groove in the drums and synth and bass). A prog band in its essence is experimental and innovative. A prog band can play rap beats that shift time signitures and key saignitures and goes into complicated passages but still resemble the music of rap and hip hop.

Then you say that we shouldnt mix oil and water. What the fuc k do you think Progressive rock is?! " lets take ideas form classical and fusion and put them into Rock and Roll" " Are you crazy?! that's like mixing oil and water! that will never work" BUT IT DOES!!! And it was that mix of oila dn water that brought to here to this site.

 

prog is about be openminded to everything! No matter how farfetched it seems, prog fans embrace it because thats what its all about. Trial and Error. We dont hang around formulas and sameness We innovate and complicate. we fuse and redirect. Its people like you that slow down the revoloution of music. We cannot be closed minded if we want to continue prog.