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MegaMoog 
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: October 22 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 112 |
 Topic: mellotron vs BirotronPosted: October 26 2005 at 14:31 |
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Who will win this epic civil war battle
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Moogtron III
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: April 26 2005 Location: Belgium Status: Offline Points: 10616 |
Posted: October 26 2005 at 14:32 |
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Could you give some examples of albums / songs where the Birotron is being used?
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MegaMoog
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 22 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 112 |
Posted: October 26 2005 at 14:42 |
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Rick wakeman may have been the only man to ever use one,I know he used they on Yes's Tormato and a solo album Criminal Record. If there are other please forgive me for not knowing |
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Moogtron III
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 26 2005 Location: Belgium Status: Offline Points: 10616 |
Posted: October 26 2005 at 14:50 |
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I forgive you, naturally. There are some Moog-like sounds on both albums you mentioned which I REALLY like, but I don't suppose that they have anything to do with the Birotron. So one vote for the Mellotron! Edited by Moogtron III |
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memowakeman
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 19 2005 Location: Mexico City Status: Offline Points: 13032 |
Posted: October 26 2005 at 14:52 |
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I DONT KNOW IF WAKEMAN WAS THE ONLY TO USE IT... BUT THE EXAMPLES ARE RIGHT AND ABOUT THE POLL... I CHOOSE MELLOTRON |
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Follow me on twitter @memowakeman |
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erik neuteboom
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 27 2005 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 7659 |
Posted: October 26 2005 at 17:05 |
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I just checked the book "The A-Z of analogue synthesizers from Peter Forrest and read: the Birotron (1975-1978) went never in full commercial production. It was used by Earthstar and Rick Wakeman. It contains using loops instead of finate tapes so you can hold a note as long as you wants (no rewinding), the Melllotron only 8 minutes. By the way, the rumour is that Rick was so frustrated about the technical and commercial difficulties that he once kicked a Birotron off stage and left it there...
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pierreolivier
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 31 2005 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 222 |
Posted: October 26 2005 at 17:58 |
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[QUOTE=erik neuteboom] the Melllotron only 8 minutes. I think you mean 8 seconds. I vote for the mellotron for sure, as a owner of this wonderful instrument. The Birotron is a very underground machine only used by Wakeman(who finance the instrument) and Earthstar. The sound of the Birotron is very thin compare to the lush sound of the mellotron. Just listen to the strings in "Don't kill the whale". The tapes in the Birotron are the same as those 70's 8 tracks cassette and they are very thin, and have 8 tracks on a little strip of tape. The tape in the mellotron are a lot larger (1/4 of inch.) and are only 3 tracks in the majority of the mellotrons models (the only exception is the M300 where the tapes are thinner, this model is used by Barclay James Harvest).All the others models used 1/4 inch. tapes. The Birotron ,IMO have more in common with the Orchestron,an instrument that uses transparent plastic discs instead of tape( the orchestron is used by Steve Hackett and Kraftwerk). You can play as long as you want but the sound is pretty thin indeed compared to the mellotron sound. Edited by pierreolivier |
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erik neuteboom
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 27 2005 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 7659 |
Posted: October 26 2005 at 18:07 |
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You are right, Pierreoliver, my 8 minutes were a Freudian slip because I wished that it was 8 minutes instead of 8 seconds |
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pierreolivier
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 31 2005 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 222 |
Posted: October 26 2005 at 18:15 |
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I just realized that you taken this information on a synthesizer book,Erik. So...you're not to blame. If the guy who wrote the book say that information, he doesn't know the mellotron and must be ashamed. For the anecdotes side from Rick Wakeman, he burned 4 M400 in a court yard fire during the 80's.He said the these machines ruined so many sessions that they got what they deserved.But now, he would like to have a Mark VI (the Mellotron Archives newest model), so he seems to have change his idea on something that he qualify before as" piece of junk". Edited by pierreolivier |
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erik neuteboom
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 27 2005 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 7659 |
Posted: October 26 2005 at 18:23 |
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No, no, I am to blame and it's a genuine Freudian slip! These two books (A-M and N-Z) are really worth to check out for keyboard aficionados, like you I presume?! By the way, do you own also a Mellotron? This year a progrock dream will come true because I'm going to visit a musician who owns a Mellotron. After playing on a Minimoog, Memorymoog and Ribbon Controller and the Hammond B3 (I only know some chords, I'm less than an amateur but a die-hard Tronmaniac and vintage keyboard aficionado), I'm thrilled, for me the Mellotron is progrock!
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chamberry
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 24 2005 Location: Puerto Rico Status: Offline Points: 9008 |
Posted: October 26 2005 at 18:46 |
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il vote for the mellotron because of the really haunting sounds it can create like in "the court of the crimson king"
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pierreolivier
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 31 2005 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 222 |
Posted: October 26 2005 at 19:12 |
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Yes, I know that 2 books. A friend (from who i brought my mellotron) had them. I was looking at them and seems pretty good but i think they are now out of print. I have other books like Vintage synthesizers by Mark Vail (very good) and the Mellotron book by Frank Samagaio (a little deceptive,i was expecting more). Yes, I own my mellotron M400 s/n 719 since 1998 and i loved it since the day one. It's a classic sound.I have 1 tape rack only with the string section,pipe organ and 8 voices choir sound but i am waiting for another tape rack with the 3 violins, flute and mixed choir.My mellotron used to belong to the Quebec prog group Morse Code in the 80's and did the album Code Breaker in the beginning of the 80's and a canadian tour with Asia(where Morse Code was the open act). I rented mine one time for the jazz group Medesky, Martin and Wood during the Montreal jazz festival in 2003. I received a lot of demands for renting it but they are fragile machines and I rent it only when it's worth it. I have a Hammond organ, model L-112, a Wurlitzer electric piano and a Clavia Nord Lead.I have begin a new band one month ago with a very good guitarist/bassist and we have write 2 pieces since then.We will recording it during the next weeks and write others.We are very influenced by the italian groups like Museo Rosenbach and Il Balletto di Bronzo but with "Quebecois " lyrics, a little like Quebec band Pollen. We are also influenced by others Quebec bands like Harmonium, Maneige and Sloche.
Edited by pierreolivier |
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el böthy
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 27 2005 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 6336 |
Posted: October 26 2005 at 19:21 |
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Could you give me an example of Birotron please??? I didnt know that there was a keyboard with that name!
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"You want me to play what, Robert?"
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TheProgtologist
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: May 23 2005 Location: Baltimore,Md US Status: Offline Points: 27802 |
Posted: October 26 2005 at 19:27 |
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same here...never heard of it |
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pierreolivier
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 31 2005 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 222 |
Posted: October 26 2005 at 19:40 |
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Here's a link from Andy Thompson's site with a photo under the Earthstar reviews: http://www.planetmellotron.com/reviewse.htm#earthstar Hope that will help.The Birotron are very underground and are use only by Wakeman and Earthstar. So... they are only a few examples in prog albums.I heard a more recent artist got his hand on a Birotron and use it on a recent recording but I can't remember the name. |
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Olympus
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 18 2005 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 545 |
Posted: October 27 2005 at 01:02 |
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Many famous bands have used the Mellotron in their music, so I'll go with it.
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"Let's get the hell away from this Eerie-ass piece of work so we can get on with the rest of our eerie-ass day"
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erik neuteboom
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 27 2005 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 7659 |
Posted: October 27 2005 at 04:35 |
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Thanks Pierreolivier. Great to read your information! My favorite Mellotron sound is the female choir section on the M400. A few weeks ago I reviewed Morse Code their compilation CD for this site and I was excited about some tracks. Museo Rosenbach is superb, I hope to hear soon from your band and the hopefullly Mellotron-drenched debut CD! |
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Phil
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 17 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1881 |
Posted: October 27 2005 at 04:50 |
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Interesting, I knew Wakeman had financed the Birotron and it had been used on Tormato. I agree the sound is very thin, not lush like the mellotron. I read that Wakeman (amongst others) had problems using the mellortron on stage because I assume the tapes don't stand up to being in a machine that's lugged around by roadies, and all that heat, humidity etc. That was one of his reasons for switching to the birotron. I'd vote for the wonderful sound of the Mellotron. |
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rockandrail
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 22 2005 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 310 |
Posted: October 27 2005 at 05:03 |
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There is no real symphonic progressive music without a mellotron
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Pierre R, the man who lost his signature
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CandyAppleRed
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 25 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 166 |
Posted: October 27 2005 at 05:09 |
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Has to be the Mellotron for me. It is one of the sounds that defines prog. Always having been a 'Tron fanatic, but not having the room, funds or patience to buy and service the real thing, I went for the G-Force M-Tron VST plug in, and mighty fine it is too. Only about £30 and comes with about 15 of the classic tape banks including the "holy trinity" of strings, choir and flutes. |
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mellotron vs Birotron
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Moogtron III wrote:
.! And you ar also right about the superiority from the Mellotron above the Birotron, I love that moving instrument so much
!
