MegaMoog wrote: Moogtron III wrote: Could you give some examples of albums / songs where the Birotron is being used? Rick wakeman may have been the only man to ever use one,I know he used they on Yes's Tormato and a solo album Criminal Record. If there are other please forgive me for not knowing

I forgive you, naturally. There are some Moog-like sounds on both albums you mentioned which I REALLY like, but I don't suppose that they have anything to do with the Birotron.

So one vote for the Mellotron!

MegaMoog wrote: Moogtron III wrote: Could you give some examples of albums / songs where the Birotron is being used? Rick wakeman may have been the only man to ever use one,I know he used they on Yes's Tormato and a solo album Criminal Record. If there are other please forgive me for not knowing

I DONT KNOW IF WAKEMAN WAS THE ONLY TO USE IT... BUT THE EXAMPLES ARE RIGHT

AND ABOUT THE POLL... I CHOOSE MELLOTRON

[QUOTE=erik neuteboom] the Melllotron only 8 minutes.

I think you mean 8 seconds.

I vote for the mellotron for sure, as a owner of this wonderful instrument. The Birotron is a very underground machine only used by Wakeman(who finance the instrument) and Earthstar. The sound of the Birotron is very thin compare to the lush sound of the mellotron. Just listen to the strings in "Don't kill the whale". The tapes in the Birotron are the same as those 70's 8 tracks cassette and they are very thin, and have 8 tracks on a little strip of tape. The tape in the mellotron are a lot larger (1/4 of inch.) and are only 3 tracks in the majority of the mellotrons models (the only exception is the M300 where the tapes are thinner, this model is used by Barclay James Harvest).All the others models used 1/4 inch. tapes.

The Birotron ,IMO have more in common with the Orchestron,an instrument that uses transparent plastic discs instead of tape( the orchestron is used by Steve Hackett and Kraftwerk). You can play as long as you want but the sound is pretty thin indeed compared to the mellotron sound.

You are right, Pierreoliver, my 8 minutes were a Freudian slip because I wished that it was 8 minutes instead of 8 seconds  .! And you ar also right about the superiority from the Mellotron above the Birotron, I love that moving instrument so much !

 I just realized that you taken this information on a synthesizer book,Erik. So...you're not to blame.

If the guy who wrote the book say that information, he doesn't know the mellotron and must be ashamed.

For the anecdotes side from Rick Wakeman, he burned 4 M400 in a court yard fire during the 80's.He said the these machines ruined so many sessions that they got what they deserved.But now, he would like to have a Mark VI (the Mellotron Archives newest model), so he seems to have change his idea on something that he qualify before as" piece of junk".

Yes, I know that 2 books. A friend (from who i brought my mellotron) had them. I was looking at them and seems pretty good but i think they are now out of print. I have other books like Vintage synthesizers by Mark Vail (very good) and the Mellotron book by Frank Samagaio (a little deceptive,i was expecting more).

Yes, I own my mellotron M400 s/n 719 since 1998 and i loved it since the day one. It's a classic sound.I have 1 tape rack only with the string section,pipe organ and 8 voices choir sound but i am waiting for another tape rack with the 3 violins, flute and mixed choir.My mellotron used to belong to the Quebec prog group Morse Code in the 80's and did the album Code Breaker in the beginning of the 80's and a canadian tour with Asia(where Morse Code was the open act). I rented mine one time for the jazz group Medesky, Martin and Wood during the Montreal jazz festival in 2003. I received a lot of demands for renting it but they are fragile machines and I rent it only when it's worth it.

I have a Hammond organ, model L-112, a Wurlitzer electric piano and a Clavia Nord Lead.I have begin a new band one month ago with a very good guitarist/bassist and we have write 2 pieces since then.We will recording it during the next weeks and write others.We are very influenced by the italian groups like Museo Rosenbach and Il Balletto di Bronzo but with "Quebecois " lyrics, a little like Quebec band Pollen. We are also influenced by others Quebec bands like Harmonium, Maneige and Sloche.

el böthy wrote: Could you give me an example of Birotron please??? I didnt know that there was a keyboard with that name!

same here...never heard of it

Here's a link from Andy Thompson's site with a photo under the Earthstar reviews:

http://www.planetmellotron.com/reviewse.htm#earthstar - http://www.planetmellotron.com/reviewse.htm#earthstar

Hope that will help.The Birotron are very underground and are use only by Wakeman and Earthstar. So... they are only a few examples in prog albums.I heard a more recent artist got his hand on a Birotron and use it on a recent recording but I can't remember the name.

Thanks Pierreolivier.

Great to read your information! My favorite Mellotron sound is the female choir section on the M400. A few weeks ago I reviewed Morse Code their compilation CD for this site and I was excited about some tracks. Museo Rosenbach is superb, I hope to hear soon from your band and the hopefullly Mellotron-drenched debut CD!

Has to be the Mellotron for me. It is one of the sounds that defines prog.

Always having been a 'Tron fanatic, but not having the room, funds or patience to buy and service the real thing, I went for the G-Force M-Tron VST plug in, and mighty fine it is too. Only about £30 and comes with about 15 of the classic tape banks including the "holy trinity" of strings, choir and flutes.

For massed strings, brass or choral the Mellotron wins hands down. However, for solo intruments (e.g. Cello) give me the Chamberlin every time.

Kineto-Zetetics wrote:  However, for solo intruments (e.g. Cello) give me the Chamberlin every time.

Yes, I agree with you. The Chamberlin had a better sound than the mellotron but it's a very fragile machine.Mr. Harry Chamberlin made his machines by hand and they are not as standard as the mellotron(even if the mellotron are very different from one to another). One famous owner is David Bowie who brought it during an US tour near 1974-1975. He use it on a lot on his recordings like Lodger and Scary Monsters. On the song "Ashes to ashes" you can hear 3 violins sound that are the same as the mellotron but it's a Chamberlin because the mellotron take the Chamberlin sound for the 3 violons.If you want a killer Chamberlin album try Neil Merryweather-Space Rangers (1974). It's more hard-rock than prog but it's very good (I think it's only available in vinyl).But it's very good for the Chamberlin.Another user, more recent and more pop, is Fionna Apple on her debut Tidal. The Chamberlin is featured on almost every tracks.

And thanks to Mr.Erik for your warm appreciation and encouragement for my new musical project. It's always a pleasure chatting and sharing informations with you.

Merci beaucoup, monsieur Pierreolivier (qu'est que tu veux boire..?)

In 1978 the German tv broadcasted a concert from David Bowie, in the song Sense of doubt (what a killer song   ) you can see Bowie playing the Chamberlin, very exciting! If you are lucky, you can find it on a music market on a bootleg DVD  .

Type error: Qu'est ce que tu veux boire? Bierre trappiste!!

erik neuteboom wrote: Type error: Qu'est ce que tu veux boire? Bierre trappiste!!

Un autre type error, Erik, c'est de la bière trappiste 

Merci pour votre bière!

Comme ont dit au Québec,ça fait chaud au coeur en estie! Yes, the trappist beer like Duvel are very good.In Quebec, we have a couple of little brewery that are worth to drink too. My favorite beer,Boddington's, came from England (Manchester) .The commercial beer here like Labatt and Molson are not really my cup of tea. I also like the Heineken beer from your beautiful country, the Netherlands.That brand is widely available here in Québec.

Thanks Erik for your info on David Bowie German tv broadcast, I will check that. Concerts with Chamberlin(or mellotron) are too rare!

A few years ago I visited Canada for 3 weeks and I was stunned by the great beer tradition from the micro breweries; Keith's India Pale Ale, Upper Canada Dark Ale, Maple Brown Rebelion Lager, Frank's Nut Brown Ale, Sleeman Honey Brown, Blanche De Chambly, Hart Old Finnegan's Ale and Quebec Maudite and Barkal (heavy guys!), what a beer heaven  !! I wrote an article for the Dutch Beer magazine PINT, they were very glad with it because it was unknown territory for most of them. At this moment Canadian beer is more and more on the shelves!

By the way, thanks Moogtron, it was indeed not me but my computer who made the mistake ....

rockandrail wrote: There is no real symphonic progressive music without a mellotron

Well... actually there is no mellotron on any ELP record and all ELP albums are pretty prog (all right, Greg Lake played some mellotron onstage for a short time during the 1972 tour but they never used that instrument on record).

In any case, the Birotron sucks! IMO it sounds slightly better than those toy keyboards that usually are given to children as Christmas gifts. Tormato could have been a much stronger record had Rick Wakeman avoided the Birotron.

My vote goes for the mellotron.

Did you know Rick Wakeman invented the Birotron along with famous ballpoint pen manufacturer, Lazslo Biro?

erik neuteboom wrote: A few years ago I visited Canada for 3 weeks and I was stunned by the great beer tradition from the micro breweries; Keith's India Pale Ale, Upper Canada Dark Ale, Maple Brown Rebelion Lager, Frank's Nut Brown Ale, Sleeman Honey Brown, Blanche De Chambly, Hart Old Finnegan's Ale and Quebec Maudite and Barkal (heavy guys!), what a beer heaven  !! I wrote an article for the Dutch Beer magazine PINT, they were very glad with it because it was unknown territory for most of them. At this moment Canadian beer is more and more on the shelves! By the way, thanks Moogtron, it was indeed not me but my computer who made the mistake ....

A mellotron and beer thread - oh happy day !