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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2005 at 21:38
OK then, shouldn't ratings be based on sales rather than paoples own opinions. As sales don't lie.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2005 at 21:39
Originally posted by dream_orchestra dream_orchestra wrote:

OK then, shouldn't ratings be based on sales rather than paoples own opinions. As sales don't lie.


Yeah, let's go ahead and put Linkin Park at the top of the charts, because sales are *obviously* proportional to quality.  Dumbass.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2005 at 21:39

Originally posted by dream_orchestra dream_orchestra wrote:

I have grave doubts over this site being a true and unbiased site, favouritism seems benign.

That's the great thing of Internet, you have hundreed of Prog sites to go, nobody forces you to be here.

Iván



Edited by ivan_2068
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2005 at 21:42
Since when were LInkin Park prog...oops forgot they are American..so anything goes.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2005 at 21:43
Linkin Park aren't prog (or good), but they've unfortunately got a freakish amount of sales...  many from the UK.  You said it yourself, sales are what determine quality...  right?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2005 at 21:47
Originally posted by dream_orchestra dream_orchestra wrote:

OK then, shouldn't ratings be based on sales rather than paoples own opinions. As sales don't lie.


Sales are good indicators of popular music- Prog is not popular. I think ratings based on how the listerner percieves the music is much more appropriate for this type of music. If it was based on sales there would be genesis - we can't dance and yes - 90125. These are not the best representations of bands that do/have based their works on composition.

Most of us don't care about sales and would agree that these are not true indicators of a bands best output.

[edit] If you are truly interested in progressive music take note that there is a respected history behind it and don't just dismiss a work because it is 30 years old. Take the time to explore some of these 'classics' and you may find something that you will treasure as much as the rest of us.


Edited by cobb
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2005 at 22:04

Dream_Orchestra is just trying to egg everyone on, and doing a good job of it. If he really is a prog fan he knows the importance of Genesis (my fav by the way).

 Let him rant

Man Overboard....LOVE your style

PRAY! LISTEN! REPEAT!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2005 at 22:12
I love playing with trolls, it helps tick away the moments that make up a dull day 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2005 at 22:21

Originally posted by dream_orchestra dream_orchestra wrote:

Nonsense.........Genesis are poor compared to ELP, bland arty farty types who bore most with their bland music i.e. Favouritism seems endemic on this site, rather than open and unbiased accounts. As for any DT album to rate higher than an ELP album, would be blasphemous in any other world. I have grave doubts over this site being a true and unbiased site, favouritism seems benign.

ELP's cold technician at times seems sometimes annoying to some people and ELP isn't comparable with GENESIS at all. Genesis enjoys such a high status, because they are simply more memorable than ELP, even I like ELP very much. ELP's early albums are great, but not as reverencial as some of GENESIS' best records (Foxtrot, Selling England By The Pound, The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway).

To say that Genesis are poor compared to ELP, is possibly the lack of overview or fanboy-ish attitude. I like both bands, but simply count Genesis higher in importance for the genre with their best Gabriel-era records.

That ELP is rated behind Dream Theater is a irony of destination, DT are very popular and their albums are very extensively often rated, but the overall rating-score of any DT album is quite less than to ELP's Trilogy or BSS, except DT's SCFAM I think. I don't believe that it is blasphemous to rate Awake or Scenes From A Memory higher than to some ELP's records though, because they are simply incredible. From your words I taste that you are a DT-basher (including Genesis), who just wants to let out some aggression here, but I don't see you coming very far here.

"All you need to do is sit back, and acquire the taste." - GENTLE GIANT
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2005 at 22:26
Originally posted by Marc Baum Marc Baum wrote:

To say that Genesis are poor compared to ELP, is possibly the lack of overview or fanboy-ish attitude. I like both bands, but simply count Genesis higher in importance for the genre with their best Gabriel-era records.


The guy sounds like he only knows love beach and wouldn't know that Brain Salad Surgery was by ELP if he heard it


[edit] I mean the other guy, not you Marc




Edited by cobb
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2005 at 22:34
Originally posted by cobb cobb wrote:

Originally posted by Marc Baum Marc Baum wrote:

To say that Genesis are poor compared to ELP, is possibly the lack of overview or fanboy-ish attitude. I like both bands, but simply count Genesis higher in importance for the genre with their best Gabriel-era records.


The guy sounds like he only knows love beach and wouldn't know that Brain Salad Surgery was by ELP if he heard it


[edit] I mean the other guy, not you Marc


Are you serious?

"All you need to do is sit back, and acquire the taste." - GENTLE GIANT
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2005 at 23:07

Originally posted by Man Overboard Man Overboard wrote:

I love playing with trolls, it helps tick away the moments that make up a dull day 

Lunatics aren't just on the grass

PRAY! LISTEN! REPEAT!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2005 at 23:12
I give Genesis's best (Foxtrot and SEBTP) a solid 7/10 each. It's not bad, but it's not that good. Just my preference however, and I can see why people like them.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2005 at 23:18

Originally posted by dream_orchestra dream_orchestra wrote:

Nonsense.........Genesis are poor compared to ELP, bland arty farty types who bore most with their bland music i.e. Favouritism seems endemic on this site, rather than open and unbiased accounts. As for any DT album to rate higher than an ELP album, would be blasphemous in any other world. I have grave doubts over this site being a true and unbiased site, favouritism seems benign.

If you like ELP so much, can I beat you mercilessly with a sh*t-covered copy of Love Beach?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2005 at 23:19
BTW:
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 16 2005 at 00:27

To anyone who doesn't like Genesis, i feel sorry for them. They're missing out.

I know. i used to be one of them. (Peter Gabriel's voice was too....i couldn't handle it initially. now hes my favorite frontman in prog.)

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 16 2005 at 01:11
The sales comment is obviously trollish. Any true prog head never adhears to sales numbers. We listen to the music we like and the music that is recommened to us by people with similar tastes. Sorry if we're not the mindless "let's listen to the Top 40 only" crowd, but most of us have brains.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 16 2005 at 01:14

I know a lot of people who doesn't like Genesis too much like for example Threefates, but even though I absolutely and strongly  disagree (Even had some tough discussions), always respected her opinion because she has a valid (for her) argument.

She doesn't limit to say that's arty fartsy or ELP is better because I say so, she truly believes and argues that Lake has one of the best voices (I agree but don't believe he's the best vocalist) that Palmer is a solid drummer (Also agree) and that Emerson is the best keyboardist (I disagree), but I can debate with her (Well, almost all the time ).

But we're before an ELP troll that is better to ignore until he learns some basic rules of behaviour and respectful discussion.

But we also need some coherence, to say they are better because they sold more albums is absurd and almost a heresy for a proghead, if this was true, what in hell are we doing here?

Prog' is one of the less popular genres in Rock history, if we believe in sales we should be listening Rap, boys/girls bands or Celine Dion , we're wasting our time with Prog'.

The essence of Prog' is to make and listen great music without ever caring how many albums are sold. I wish all the world was full of Progheads, but if this doesn't happen I don't care, I will listen any band I like despite they only sell one album that I buy.

We had this problem before with a couple of trolls, so we should be used to it.

Iván

 



Edited by ivan_2068
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 16 2005 at 01:58

Although genesis is slightly overrated on this site(4 albums in the top 10), I dont believe they are the most overrated band on here.  i wont mention any bands in particuar.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

PINK FLOYD!



Edited by ian_b
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 16 2005 at 14:35

I'm getting tired of people saying that Genesis, Pink Floyd, Camel etc. are overrated. Isn't there some sort of spell check that can automatically erase those comments? Maybe we should ban the word "overrated" from the forum. Most of the times it has nothing to do with more objective arguments but just with taste. Well, I'm beginning to repeat Ivan's sensible comments  so I'll stop here.

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