The top 100
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Topic: The top 100
Posted By: Guests
Subject: The top 100
Date Posted: October 15 2005 at 20:11
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Being new to this site i have been over the many pages and comments made by many. Some i agree with some i don't. Wel,l after all we are individuals. But i can't believe the top 100 so called prog albums, Genesis have so many in there (not a bad band, but not worthy of the excessive amount). How is this list gathered? Do peolpe get together in a room and pull album names out of a hat, or is it only cetain individuals who get to name their fave albums? |
Replies:
Posted By: Arnold Layne
Date Posted: October 15 2005 at 20:14
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genesis is completly worthy and a leader of 70's progressive rock(im talking about gabriel genesis) ------------- HELP! |
Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: October 15 2005 at 20:17
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Genesis is definitely one of those top definitive Prog Rock bands of the 70s! One of the best bands ever! (With Gabriel and Hackett) |
Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: October 15 2005 at 20:25
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Gabriel era Genesis made the best prog ever!!! Yes did too, but CTTE is #1, so it's fair ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: October 15 2005 at 20:29
| I totally disagree, there are much better, but more maligned band,s than the boring arty farty Genesis. Some of their stuff is ok, but some is pure pretentious nonsense, and definitely bland. |
Posted By: Arsillus
Date Posted: October 15 2005 at 20:44
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Sorry, but ELP = pure pretntiousness. I still like 'em, though. |
dream_orchestra wrote:
Posted By: Bryan
Date Posted: October 15 2005 at 20:57
| The top 100 is complied based on the ratings and reviews provided by the people of this site. |
Posted By: Marc Baum
Date Posted: October 15 2005 at 21:00
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It's easy to see that prog's 3 greatest (Yes, Genesis & Pink Floyd) are very high in the list and with several records in the top 100. That fact is absolutely ok and earned, because they are representative for prog in it's most important, defining individualitistic aspects. For example: Yes - the virtuosity; Genesis - the lyricism - Pink Floyd - the monumentalism. The list is based on ratings and I think that the chosen ones are objectively seen as perfect as it gets (in prog's point of view). There aren't a couple of people who rate them so extensively often and high, they are just very popular and enjoy a high status to prog-listeners and fans, or music-lovers in general. There are also several people out there who complain about them and think they are overrated, but they seem to lack the "masterpiece-ear" and can't hear the timeless genius inside of the music. I absolutely agree, that music is still a matter of taste, but with the top ranked albums on here there are only few people, who give them few or zero attention - the most know what it's all about and don't think it's hype - so that must speak for the over-the-top quality of the records. ------------- "All you need to do is sit back, and acquire the taste." - GENTLE GIANT |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: October 15 2005 at 21:08
| Nonsense.........Genesis are poor compared to ELP, bland arty farty types who bore most with their bland music i.e. Favouritism seems endemic on this site, rather than open and unbiased accounts. As for any DT album to rate higher than an ELP album, would be blasphemous in any other world. I have grave doubts over this site being a true and unbiased site, favouritism seems benign. |
Posted By: Syntharachnid
Date Posted: October 15 2005 at 21:09
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Genesis had a sound (or "mood" if you like) about them that has become synonomous with progressive rock. There's much more to prog than that, I know, but it's just that a lot of people like that sound (myself included), so their albums get high ratings. Now ELP are another of my favorite bands, but they're all about technique. That doesn't cut it for some. I like them, prog wouldn't be the same without them, but I can see why Genesis recieves more favour. Just my take on the issue. ------------- 
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Posted By: Syntharachnid
Date Posted: October 15 2005 at 21:11
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And no, Genesis don't bore most. You can't deny that they have a huge fan base around here. -------------
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: October 15 2005 at 21:14
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Artsy Fartsy???? Strange description in a prog' site, that's the way POP lovers use to call all Prog' Rock. That's the problem when people mix quality with their own taste, I dislike most King Crimson (For example) but I would be a prog' ignorant to say they are mediocre, they are all excelent musicians, the fact I dislike their music is just a matter of personal taste. Iván ------------- 
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Posted By: Man Overboard
Date Posted: October 15 2005 at 21:14
What the hell. People rate albums as they see them: Hence, higher ratings to what the prefer, lower ratings to what they do not prefer. Your attitude implies that *you* are right and everyone else is wrong, and an attitude like that won't carry you very far here. Good day sir. I SAID GOOD DAY SIR. ------------- https://soundcloud.com/erin-susan-jennings" rel="nofollow - Bedroom guitarist". Composer, Arranger, Producer. Perfection may not exist, but I may still choose to serve Perfection. Commissions considered. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: October 15 2005 at 21:23
| But what people? |
Posted By: Man Overboard
Date Posted: October 15 2005 at 21:24
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Everyone. The Top 100 is based on every review submitted, and no one is barred from making reviews.
------------- https://soundcloud.com/erin-susan-jennings" rel="nofollow - Bedroom guitarist". Composer, Arranger, Producer. Perfection may not exist, but I may still choose to serve Perfection. Commissions considered. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: October 15 2005 at 21:31
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Apart from music lovers. |
Posted By: Man Overboard
Date Posted: October 15 2005 at 21:31
Oh, music lovers are barred from making reviews? Do explain, son. 
------------- https://soundcloud.com/erin-susan-jennings" rel="nofollow - Bedroom guitarist". Composer, Arranger, Producer. Perfection may not exist, but I may still choose to serve Perfection. Commissions considered. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: October 15 2005 at 21:33
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Look at the top 100
|
Posted By: Man Overboard
Date Posted: October 15 2005 at 21:34
 ------------- https://soundcloud.com/erin-susan-jennings" rel="nofollow - Bedroom guitarist". Composer, Arranger, Producer. Perfection may not exist, but I may still choose to serve Perfection. Commissions considered. |
Posted By: cobb
Date Posted: October 15 2005 at 21:34
| Dream_orchestra- you are confusing how the ratings work on this site. They are generated, automatically, from reviews on the works which are submitted by the members of the site. There is no little group of people cloistered together, deciding on who should be in the list. This is the only site I know that does this reasonably fairly. There is some bias, but if enough reviews are submitted the bias will even out to a true accounting |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: October 15 2005 at 21:38
| OK then, shouldn't ratings be based on sales rather than paoples own opinions. As sales don't lie. |
Posted By: Man Overboard
Date Posted: October 15 2005 at 21:39
Yeah, let's go ahead and put Linkin Park at the top of the charts, because sales are *obviously* proportional to quality. Dumbass. ------------- https://soundcloud.com/erin-susan-jennings" rel="nofollow - Bedroom guitarist". Composer, Arranger, Producer. Perfection may not exist, but I may still choose to serve Perfection. Commissions considered. |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: October 15 2005 at 21:39
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That's the great thing of Internet, you have hundreed of Prog sites to go, nobody forces you to be here. Iván -------------
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: October 15 2005 at 21:42
| Since when were LInkin Park prog...oops forgot they are American..so anything goes. |
Posted By: Man Overboard
Date Posted: October 15 2005 at 21:43
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Linkin Park aren't prog (or good), but they've unfortunately got a
freakish amount of sales... many from the UK. You said it
yourself, sales are what determine quality... right?
------------- https://soundcloud.com/erin-susan-jennings" rel="nofollow - Bedroom guitarist". Composer, Arranger, Producer. Perfection may not exist, but I may still choose to serve Perfection. Commissions considered. |
Posted By: cobb
Date Posted: October 15 2005 at 21:47
Sales are good indicators of popular music- Prog is not popular. I think ratings based on how the listerner percieves the music is much more appropriate for this type of music. If it was based on sales there would be genesis - we can't dance and yes - 90125. These are not the best representations of bands that do/have based their works on composition. Most of us don't care about sales and would agree that these are not true indicators of a bands best output. [edit] If you are truly interested in progressive music take note that there is a respected history behind it and don't just dismiss a work because it is 30 years old. Take the time to explore some of these 'classics' and you may find something that you will treasure as much as the rest of us. |
Posted By: texasron
Date Posted: October 15 2005 at 22:04
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Dream_Orchestra is just trying to egg everyone on, and doing a good job of it. If he really is a prog fan he knows the importance of Genesis (my fav by the way). Let him rant Man Overboard....LOVE your style ------------- PRAY! LISTEN! REPEAT! |
Posted By: Man Overboard
Date Posted: October 15 2005 at 22:12
I love playing with trolls, it helps tick away the moments that make up a dull day 
------------- https://soundcloud.com/erin-susan-jennings" rel="nofollow - Bedroom guitarist". Composer, Arranger, Producer. Perfection may not exist, but I may still choose to serve Perfection. Commissions considered. |
Posted By: Marc Baum
Date Posted: October 15 2005 at 22:21
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ELP's cold technician at times seems sometimes annoying to some people and ELP isn't comparable with GENESIS at all. Genesis enjoys such a high status, because they are simply more memorable than ELP, even I like ELP very much. ELP's early albums are great, but not as reverencial as some of GENESIS' best records (Foxtrot, Selling England By The Pound, The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway). To say that Genesis are poor compared to ELP, is possibly the lack of overview or fanboy-ish attitude. I like both bands, but simply count Genesis higher in importance for the genre with their best Gabriel-era records. That ELP is rated behind Dream Theater is a irony of destination, DT are very popular and their albums are very extensively often rated, but the overall rating-score of any DT album is quite less than to ELP's Trilogy or BSS, except DT's SCFAM I think. I don't believe that it is blasphemous to rate Awake or Scenes From A Memory higher than to some ELP's records though, because they are simply incredible. From your words I taste that you are a DT-basher (including Genesis), who just wants to let out some aggression here, but I don't see you coming very far here. ------------- "All you need to do is sit back, and acquire the taste." - GENTLE GIANT |
Posted By: cobb
Date Posted: October 15 2005 at 22:26
The guy sounds like he only knows love beach and wouldn't know that Brain Salad Surgery was by ELP if he heard it [edit] I mean the other guy, not you Marc |
Posted By: Marc Baum
Date Posted: October 15 2005 at 22:34
Are you serious? ------------- "All you need to do is sit back, and acquire the taste." - GENTLE GIANT |
Posted By: texasron
Date Posted: October 15 2005 at 23:07
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Lunatics aren't just on the grass ------------- PRAY! LISTEN! REPEAT! |
Posted By: FishyMonkey
Date Posted: October 15 2005 at 23:12
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I give Genesis's best (Foxtrot and SEBTP) a solid 7/10 each. It's not bad, but it's not that good. Just my preference however, and I can see why people like them. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/FishyMonkey/?chartstyle=artists"> 
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: October 15 2005 at 23:18
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If you like ELP so much, can I beat you mercilessly with a sh*t-covered copy of Love Beach? ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: October 15 2005 at 23:19
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BTW: ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: gok22us
Date Posted: October 16 2005 at 00:27
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To anyone who doesn't like Genesis, i feel sorry for them. They're missing out. I know. i used to be one of them. (Peter Gabriel's voice was too....i couldn't handle it initially. now hes my favorite frontman in prog.) |
Posted By: Yams
Date Posted: October 16 2005 at 01:11
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The sales comment is obviously trollish. Any true prog head never
adhears to sales numbers. We listen to the music we like and the music
that is recommened to us by people with similar tastes. Sorry if we're
not the mindless "let's listen to the Top 40 only" crowd, but most of
us have brains. |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: October 16 2005 at 01:14
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I know a lot of people who doesn't like Genesis too much like for example Threefates, but even though I absolutely and strongly disagree (Even had some tough discussions), always respected her opinion because she has a valid (for her) argument. She doesn't limit to say that's arty fartsy or ELP is better because I say so, she truly believes and argues that Lake has one of the best voices (I agree but don't believe he's the best vocalist) that Palmer is a solid drummer (Also agree) and that Emerson is the best keyboardist (I disagree), but I can debate with her (Well, almost all the time But we're before an ELP troll that is better to ignore until he learns some basic rules of behaviour and respectful discussion. But we also need some coherence, to say they are better because they sold more albums is absurd and almost a heresy for a proghead, if this was true, what in hell are we doing here? Prog' is one of the less popular genres in Rock history, if we believe in sales we should be listening Rap, boys/girls bands or Celine Dion The essence of Prog' is to make and listen great music without ever caring how many albums are sold. I wish all the world was full of Progheads, but if this doesn't happen I don't care, I will listen any band I like despite they only sell one album that I buy. We had this problem before with a couple of trolls, so we should be used to it. Iván
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, we're wasting our time with Prog'.Posted By: ian_b
Date Posted: October 16 2005 at 01:58
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Although genesis is slightly overrated on this site(4 albums in the top 10), I dont believe they are the most overrated band on here. i wont mention any bands in particuar.
PINK FLOYD! |
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: October 16 2005 at 14:35
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I'm getting tired of people saying that Genesis, Pink Floyd, Camel etc. are overrated. Isn't there some sort of spell check that can automatically erase those comments? Maybe we should ban the word "overrated" from the forum. Most of the times it has nothing to do with more objective arguments but just with taste. Well, I'm beginning to repeat Ivan's sensible comments |
Posted By: horza
Date Posted: October 16 2005 at 14:42
 lets have a classic 100 and a modern 100
have i said that before ???  ------------- Originally posted by darkshade: Calling Mike Portnoy a bad drummer is like calling Stephen Hawking an idiot. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: October 16 2005 at 14:51
Quality of albums aside you think Genesis is higher in importance to the genre than ELP. Curious to your reasoning on that (or anyone's for that matter) ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: omri
Date Posted: October 16 2005 at 15:15
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Well,
There's a way to say your opinion. For example I love King crimson but I appreciate Ivan's different opinion for 2 reasons : first, he does not saying "that's my opinion so it's got to be true". He respects other opinions than his. Second, he listen to the music (and read the words) before he make up his mind. I would strongly suggest to the guy who started this thread to learn something here. And if we are talking about the way the top 100 list is made I think I know how. You time the logarithmus of "number of ratings" by the squared "average rate". This gives much more power to the high rates than the amount of ratings. The list in this algorythm is much more diverse and interesting than the one we had before. Still my list (as everyones I guess) will look a beat different but nobody (not even Ivan) heared all prog music exist. ------------- omri |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: October 16 2005 at 15:27
hmmm, taking into account likes and dislikes is one thing. How about an 'attempted' rational view of the albums and artists which tries to take criteria such as influence and innovation into them. Check this out and tell me what you think. We have a rather small pool of people that input these lists (acutally 3 people who are the main input), so don't go crazy if you see something out of place ha ha hah. I tend to think that looking at the bigger picture of the albums and groups is just as interesting as the music itself. For what it's worth, you all have helped a great deal. Many ideas, and much informatiion tossed around there have gone into these lists. http://digitaldreamdoor.com/forum1/viewtopic.php?t=8284 ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Drew
Date Posted: October 16 2005 at 15:31
| I say we have the bottom 100 list! That would sure piss some people off- but hey- it could tell you what NOT to buy! |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: October 16 2005 at 15:35
ha hahah ha, that's not a bad idea ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Winterfamily
Date Posted: October 16 2005 at 16:20
The only logical reason i see to dislike King Crimson is because Robert
Fripp's looks in the "Red" cover match exactly those of a civil
servant: round glasses, small beard and that "don't bother me, i'm
busy" gesture  . Apart from that, they'd be in my top 100 for sure!! |