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ClemofNazareth View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: In defense of Kansas (a rant on the 80’s)
    Posted: October 15 2005 at 20:13

I spent some time reading through the many reviews of Kansas albums on this site over the past few weeks, particularly the reviews of their works during the 80’s decade (Audio-Visions, Vinyl Confessions, Drastic Measures, Power, and In the Spirit of Things).  While I agree with most of the reviewers that these works do not represent the best the band has to offer, I think that, in the context of how prog music in general fared during the 80’s, they really aren’t as egregious of offerings as some of our various contributors make them out to be.  Frankly, Kansas’ five albums of new material during the 80’s make them one of the more prolific of the earlier prog bands during that decade.  To prove a point, I compiled some pertinent statistics and observations of the bands Kansas is most often compared to in various reviews on this and other prog forums.  Tell me what you think:

 

Genesis.  The early 80’s brought Duke (1980) and Abacab (1981), widely critiqued as unoriginal and targeted for the mass-market in the same way Audio-Visions and Vinyl Confessions were.  These were followed by only four other studio albums over the succeeding 16 years, all with heavy rotation on MTV and VH1 videos of their pop-tinged singles.  The only studio sessions that even remotely returned to their progressive roots were those resulting in 1997’s Calling All Stations, and even this was devoid of over half of the group that is lauded for such timeless classics as Nursery Cryme and The Lamb Lies Down in Broadway.  They have, of course, managed to cash in on their golden years with no less than 15 boxed-sets, compilation releases, and live recordings since their 70’s heyday.

 

Yes.  In 1980 they released Drama, modestly well-received but missing much of the heart of the band with Jon Anderson and Rick Wakeman’s departures.  Anderson returned of course, but the resulting 90125 in 1983 left many fans wondering why, and 1987’s Big Generator sounded suspiciously like a collection of 90125 leftovers.  The name “Yes” found its way onto a few more album covers in the 90’s, but these were produced by remnants of the original band, with some support by studio and guest musicians.  Their chief output after 1980 were the 30-plus compilations and live recordings aimed, presumably, at lining their pockets by leveraging the band’s reputation with older fans.

 

King Crimson.  Probably survived the 80’s best of all the older prog bands, with the trilogy of Discipline, Beat, and Three of a Perfect Pair.  Like Genesis however, they would return to the studio only four more times to release original material after that, and not at all until well into the 90’s with THRAK.  They have managed to release more live and compilation recordings since 1980 than virtually any of the other 70’s prog bands though.

 

Emerson, Lake, and Palmer.  In my opinion ELP checked out early on the 70’s with the oft-ridiculed Love Beach, and it might be argued they had the most successful approach to surviving the 80’s – they didn’t release anything (unless of course you count the odd and forgettable Emerson, Lake & Powell from 1985).  In 1992 Black Moon offered a glimmer of hope that the band was on the rebound, but they followed it up with the absolutely horrid In The Hot Seat a couple years later.  They survive only in the dozen or so live recordings and more than a dozen compilations and boxed-sets their labels have floated over the nearly three decades since their best days ended.

 

Gentle Giant.  First, I’ll admit to not knowing a heck of a lot about Gentle Giant, and virtually nothing of their work after Free Hand, but in the spirit of this tirade, I looked up their discography and found that they too pretty much escaped the 80’s unscathed, releasing only Civilian early in the decade, and since I’ve never heard anything from that album, I won’t offer any comment.  By the time The Last Steps was panned in a Rolling Stones review in the mid-90’s, I had written them off, and was never a big enough fan to have any interest in their endless string of live recordings released over the last twenty years.

 

Jethro Tull.  It’s possible that Tull peaked even by the early 70’s, but I got into the band with Heavy Horses, and IMHO they probably fared the best of the 70’s prod bands during the 80’s, releasing the thoroughly enjoyable A and The Broadsword and the Beast at the onset of the decade, but I listened to a couple demo tracks of Under Wraps in a Musicland store a couple years later and bought REM’s Reckoning instead.  Tull has had several issues of new material since then, but other than the Christmas Album (which I have and like, although it’s no Aqualung), they too have largely released collections and live albums over the past dozen years or so.

 

Pink Floyd.  Peaked with The Wall to close out the 70’s, and demonstrated their intent to cash in on that with The Final Cut a few years later (it worked too – I bought the album and later the CD as well).  And other than A Momentary Lapse of Reason and Division Bell (sans Waters), they really haven’t done anything as a band since other than regurgitate old material in live and reissued form. 

 

Traffic.  Wasn’t sure if I should even include them, but I have been listening to quite a bit of their original stuff lately, and although I guess I always considered them more folk than anything else, I see they appear on this site as a prog band.  Sadly, as I recall the band actually disbanded (for the third time or so) before the 80’s even began, although when I saw that they were inducted into the R&R Hall of Fame last year, I learned that Jim Capaldi and Steve Winwood had reunited in the 90’s to produce a couple albums of new material.  What little I’ve heard of those albums doesn’t much resemble any of the earlier incarnations of Traffic though, and they too survive only in the various boxed-sets that seem to come out every year around Chritmas.

 

Strawbs.  Another band that survived the 80’s by breaking up.  Had a bit of a revival late in the decade under the name Strawbs, but to my knowledge that group largely consisted of Cousins with a couple of members from the very early Strawbs lineups.  Wakeman of course was long gone, and I must confess to never having even heard their 80’s album, though I have to suspect if it was much worth listening too I would have had some inkling.

 

Uriah Heep.  I actually hated these guys in the 70’s, and most of us in the states at least considered them metal, not prog (although to be fair, my definition of progressive music at that time extended pretty much to Yes, Kansas, and ELP).  While the band continued to put out new material through the 80’s, it was of widely varying style and quality, and the lineups changed like pitcher rotations on a baseball team (much like that of Kansas during the same period).  They did put out the very decent Abominog in 1982 (which interestingly included a song entitled ‘Chasing Shadows’, as did Kansas’ Vinyl Confessions the same year), but their only real candidate for progressive music after about 1978 was the brilliant (but one-shot) Sea of Light in the mid-90’s.  Since then Uriah Heep is pretty much seen on the record shelves only in the form of live albums and reconstituted boxed-sets, much like most of the other 70’s prog gods.

 

So I’m not sure exactly what my point is here, except to say that I had some time on my hands and felt the need to make some sort of defense for my favorite prog band (Kansas, in case I hadn’t mentioned that already).  Sure, Drastic Measures was a drastic departure, and largely forgettable.  True, the only original recordings in the past ten years have been with the unrecognizable lineup in Freaks of Nature, and the nostalgic but sort-lived reunion for Somewhere to Elsewhere in 2000.  And sure, they’ve done their fair share of cashing in by releasing a dozen or so boxed-sets, live recordings, and re-mastered issues in the past 20 years or so. 

 

But I guess my point is that this doesn’t make them that much different from any of the other 70’ prog masters of the genre.  The fact that they are still out there touring (including several months of well-attended shows throughout Europe earlier this year), says to me that the band has managed to survive the deadly 80’s curse that felled many prog greats, and despite Steve Walsh’s complete loss of vocal ability, they remain a viable musical entity on the progressive landscape, even if only by offering us nostalgic old farts the opportunity to see their still considerable showmanship and talent in a live setting a few more times.

 

peace.

 

"Peace is the only battle worth waging."

Albert Camus
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2005 at 20:20
Power and In The Spirit Of Things were very very good prog-leaning guitar rock albums 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2005 at 20:25
If only Kansas had one album comparable to ELP but they don't.

Edited by dream_orchestra
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2005 at 20:35
Originally posted by dream_orchestra dream_orchestra wrote:

If only Kansas had one album comparable to ELP butthey don't.


Leftoverture, youngin'.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2005 at 20:41
Kansas couldn't even spell ELP..............once upon a time i had nearly all their albums. But after plenty of listenings they hit the bin, sheer awful nonsense IMO, couldn't lace ELP's boots.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2005 at 20:43

Originally posted by Man Overboard Man Overboard wrote:

Originally posted by dream_orchestra dream_orchestra wrote:

If only Kansas had one album comparable to ELP butthey don't.


Leftoverture, youngin'.

Not to mention Song For America, their proggiest effort IMO.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2005 at 20:56
Originally posted by dream_orchestra dream_orchestra wrote:

Kansas couldn't even spell ELP..............once upon a time i had nearly all their albums. But after plenty of listenings they hit the bin, sheer awful nonsense IMO, couldn't lace ELP's boots.


Yeah, quit trolling, dick.  Kansas were *tighter* musicians, especially in a live setting. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2005 at 20:56

Originally posted by Man Overboard Man Overboard wrote:

Originally posted by dream_orchestra dream_orchestra wrote:

If only Kansas had one album comparable to ELP butthey don't.


Leftoverture, youngin'.

I recently bought Leftoverture after hearing Wayward Son on the radio, and doing a bit of research around here.  I was slightly dissapointed, but perhaps it'll grow on me.  After all, I do like Supertramp.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2005 at 21:13
I might be a dick but, Kansas are still a joke as far as prog rock is concerened.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2005 at 21:15
Originally posted by dream_orchestra dream_orchestra wrote:

I might be a dick but, Kansas are still a joke as far as prog rock is concerened.


You *are* a dick, this has been established, but look around you.  Your much-loved ELP is the butt of many more jokes than Kansas.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2005 at 21:18

Only an American could say Kansas are better than ELP, keep up the insults and i'll report you.

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2005 at 21:22
Nationalistic veiled racism isn't becoming of you.


Edited by Man Overboard
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2005 at 21:22

Kansas not even in their worst years did an album as bad as Love Beach or In the Hot Seat, an never released an abomination as the dance disco called Re-Works.

To be honest ELP did excellent albums until the mid 70's, but every album since Works II is way below the level of any good Prog' band.

Iván

            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2005 at 21:24
But even a bad ELP album was so much better then Kansas.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2005 at 21:25
Originally posted by dream_orchestra dream_orchestra wrote:

But even a bad ELP album was so much better then Kansas.


You'll find that most will disagree with your pompous, distorted view.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2005 at 21:29
I didn't know that persaonal opinion was barred. As an American i can see why you disagre, as your nationals basically disagree over everything in this world. However, Kansas never hit the heights of  ElLP at their best, so content yourself with being second best just once in your life.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2005 at 21:30
You said a bad ELP album is better than Kansas, yet I fail to see how, say, In The Hot Seat or Love Beach would have any merit over even Kansas' s/t.

Care to debate?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2005 at 21:31

Love Beach is the joke of every Prog site (not only this one but each and every one), In the Hot Seat is even worst and Re-Works would be OK for a trance party or something similar.

Kansas is probably the most respected USA Prog' band, they mixed with great capacity hard rock, USA Folk and Symphonic Progressive as no one ever did, they were probably the first Prog' band that based their sound in the combination of violin and vocals rather than in keyboards, and did it very well.

Leftoverture is (At least IMO) in the level of the best Prog' albums of all time, songs as Miracles Out of Nowhere, The Wall, Song or America, etc are great examples of Progressive Rock.

Iván

            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2005 at 21:32
Why?....you're obviously so patriotic to your country that you would argue Vietnam was a victory.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2005 at 21:33
Me, patriotic?   Get yer head out of yer ass!
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