Magma?

Doesburger wrote: OldFatherThames wrote: Doesburger wrote: OldFatherThames wrote: Personnaly, I really think their concept of new language is absolutely stupid !! Why did they created that ?? It make the music three times weakest ! I don' like their music either...maybe some good points, but not a lot. No.....I really don't like his band ! OK, I'll bite. What is so stupid about it? Or is it because you don't understand the 'words'? I reverse the question...what do you like about it ? I just find it to be a stupid idea to speak in a non sense langage. Why ?? Is it bring something to the music ? Like someone said before, it's like a science fiction concept, and I absolutely hate science fiction ! I'll reverse the question... what don't you like about it? What makes you think it's nonsense language?

Maybe it make sense for Them but it doesn't for us, so we cannot understand what they are saying. What I don't like ? I just find it to be a stupid idea. They try to be original, but I think they went too far on their originality, which make their concept ridiculous. And if the langage make sense, it's probably a story about alien, or science fiction like that, I don't know !! Like I said before, I absolutely hate science fiction, which doesn't help me to appreciate this strange and IMO boring band.

And you, what do you find so genious about this band and especially their weird concept ?

BaldFriede wrote: OldFatherThames wrote: Doesburger wrote: OldFatherThames wrote: Doesburger wrote: OldFatherThames wrote: Personnaly, I really think their concept of new language is absolutely stupid !! Why did they created that ?? It make the music three times weakest ! I don' like their music either...maybe some good points, but not a lot. No.....I really don't like his band ! OK, I'll bite. What is so stupid about it? Or is it because you don't understand the 'words'? I reverse the question...what do you like about it ? I just find it to be a stupid idea to speak in a non sense langage. Why ?? Is it bring something to the music ? Like someone said before, it's like a science fiction concept, and I absolutely hate science fiction ! I'll reverse the question... what don't you like about it? What makes you think it's nonsense language? Maybe it make sense for Them but it doesn't for us, so we cannot understand what they are saying. What I don't like ? I just find it to be a stupid idea. They try to be original, but I think they went too far on their originality, which make their concept ridiculous. And if the langage make sense, it's probably a story about alien, or science fiction like that, I don't know !! Like I said before, I absolutely hate science fiction, which doesn't help me to appreciate this strange and IMO boring band. And you, what do you find so genious about this band and especially their weird concept ? Hungarian probably wouldn't make sense to you either, but would you condemn a Hungarian band for it?

Hungarian is a langage ! Magma create a langage to have a kind of science fiction concept which I think is a bit stupid, that's all ! It's my opinion !!

OldFatherThames wrote: BaldFriede wrote: OldFatherThames wrote: Doesburger wrote: OldFatherThames wrote: Doesburger wrote: OldFatherThames wrote: Personnaly, I really think their concept of new language is absolutely stupid !! Why did they created that ?? It make the music three times weakest ! I don' like their music either...maybe some good points, but not a lot. No.....I really don't like his band ! OK, I'll bite. What is so stupid about it? Or is it because you don't understand the 'words'? I reverse the question...what do you like about it ? I just find it to be a stupid idea to speak in a non sense langage. Why ?? Is it bring something to the music ? Like someone said before, it's like a science fiction concept, and I absolutely hate science fiction ! I'll reverse the question... what don't you like about it? What makes you think it's nonsense language? Maybe it make sense for Them but it doesn't for us, so we cannot understand what they are saying. What I don't like ? I just find it to be a stupid idea. They try to be original, but I think they went too far on their originality, which make their concept ridiculous. And if the langage make sense, it's probably a story about alien, or science fiction like that, I don't know !! Like I said before, I absolutely hate science fiction, which doesn't help me to appreciate this strange and IMO boring band. And you, what do you find so genious about this band and especially their weird concept ? Hungarian probably wouldn't make sense to you either, but would you condemn a Hungarian band for it? Hungarian is a langage ! Magma create a langage to have a kind of science fiction concept which I think is a bit stupid, that's all ! It's my opinion !!

You don't understand the 'lyrics' and still you come up with this idea (the idea of someone else, you said, but still) that it's science fiction. How can you tell?

Magma is fun. Zeuhl is fun!

Doesburger wrote: OldFatherThames wrote: Even if it's not science fiction !! Who cares ! If they talk about monkey of Africa or whatever ! I still think their idea being ridiculous...that's what I say !! But if it's science fiction, it's even weakest !! If you still don't understand my point of view, I can make you a draw. Your point was that you don't like Magma (which is your own business) because you think writing lyrics in a created language is stupid. My point is that since you don't understand the lyrics, how can you say that's stupid? A drawing would be appreciated.   And, yes I got it. You don't like science-ficiton. But that's not the subject of this discussion.

I don't say the content of the lyrics are stupid. Maybe what they say is the greatest poetry of all time ! I don' know and I don't care. I just don't like their concept of creating a langage...THAT'S my point !!

Trouserpress wrote: OldFatherThames wrote: Doesburger wrote: OldFatherThames wrote: Even if it's not science fiction !! Who cares ! If they talk about monkey of Africa or whatever ! I still think their idea being ridiculous...that's what I say !! But if it's science fiction, it's even weakest !! If you still don't understand my point of view, I can make you a draw. Your point was that you don't like Magma (which is your own business) because you think writing lyrics in a created language is stupid. My point is that since you don't understand the lyrics, how can you say that's stupid? A drawing would be appreciated.   And, yes I got it. You don't like science-ficiton. But that's not the subject of this discussion. I don't say the content of the lyrics are stupid. Maybe what they say is the greatest poetry of all time ! I don' know and I don't care. I just don't like their concept of creating a langage...THAT'S my point !! Do you think it's stupid when vocalists make sounds with their voices that aren't words? Thjis van Leer of Focus, for instance. Why not think of Magma's lyrics as just sounds and the voices as another instrument?

Yes, you can take his voice like an instrument if you want, but that's not the point. I just say I find it stupid to create a langage and make all your songs around it. If you like that, it's your way, but I don't. Van Leer sometimes use his voices like an instruments and I find it ok. But I don't like the "world" that Magma create with their music and their lyrics. And I'm almost sure that his voices is not only use as an instrument. I really think it's a part of the concept of the band.

Snow Dog wrote: Its quite gratifying when one of ones old threads gets a bit of an airing!

Aye. Has your own opinion on Magma shifted at all, Snowy?

Trouserpress wrote: Snow Dog wrote: Its quite gratifying when one of ones old threads gets a bit of an airing! Aye. Has your own opinion on Magma shifted at all, Snowy?

Haven't really listened since this thread was started......I'll give 'em anotrher go though!

You have to put it in context: Magma¨s first album was in 1970.
The only people doing a viable fusion of jazz and rock at this
time were Miles Davis, Frank Zappa & the Mothers, Tony
William's Lifetime (with John MacLaughlin), and in Europe, Soft
Machine and Magma. With all due respect to Soft Machine,
while incredibly beautiful and creative, they were still very
much experimenting. Magma came on the scene with a totally
complete concept, and a very solid combination of jazz, rock
and modern classic. And one of the earliest concept albums,
which not only spanned an album, but many over decades. Not
all of them are so outstanding, but the first one is dazzling and
radical, and Kontrakosz is an intoxicatingly beautiful and close
to perfect album (a teacher of mine once said "There's nothing
more boring than perfection"). I like that their songs are in an
incomprehensible language, thereby avoiding ALL the clichés
and kitch of prog pseudo-poetry, and keeping the listener
always focused on the music. Their influence was extensive, in
Europe at least...without Magma, no Henry Cow, Art Zoyd,
Univers Zero, etc. as we know them...

Kobaian was developed by Christian Vander and Klaus Blasquiz, at least partly because the French language wasn't suitable for the kind of vocal sound Vander had in mind. The invented language was intended to sound German/Slavonic, hence the large number of hard consonants.

According to Chris Cutler, Christian and Klaus occasionally conversed in Kobaian but the language was rather limited - many ways to say 'Die, accursed race of Earthmen!' but now way to say 'Would you like a coffee?'.

Other bands to do something similar -

Can with Damo Suzuki, who sang in a mixture of English, Japanese, German and gibberish. He referred to it as the language of the stone age.

Sigur Ros sing in Hopelandic.

Ruins sing in a made up tongue of their own invention.

The Cocteau Twins had their own bizarre language as well - in The Crow Road by Iain Banks the central character knows he's stoned when he can understand what Liz Fraser is singing.