Magma?
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Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Music Lounge
Forum Description: General progressive music discussions
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6492
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Topic: Magma?
Posted By: Snow Dog
Subject: Magma?
Date Posted: May 22 2005 at 12:51
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I'm listening to "Da Zeuhl Wortz Mekanik" by Magma that I downloaded from the site! Whats that all about then? ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
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Replies:
Posted By: tuxon
Date Posted: May 22 2005 at 12:53
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It's about a soul that becomes mechanic, and loses itself and disintegrates into a sensless machine ------------- I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT |
Posted By: Manunkind
Date Posted: May 22 2005 at 12:54
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^ darn, you beat me to it, Tuxon ------------- "In war there is no time to teach or learn Zen. Carry a strong stick. Bash your attackers." - Zen Master Ikkyu Sojun |
!Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: May 22 2005 at 12:55
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Yes but...........the music??????!!!!!!!! ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: nacho
Date Posted: May 22 2005 at 12:57
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Music? What music? OK, give it some time: every time I listen to it I find it less disgusting...
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Snow Dog wrote:Posted By: Syzygy
Date Posted: May 22 2005 at 12:58
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It's an extract from a longer piece, which is part of Magma's epic about Earth's contact with the planet Kobaia. To be brutally frank, the story's a load of old toffee but the music is fantastic - Magma sang in their own language most of the time, so nobody except them really understands the lyrics. ------------- 'Like so many of you I've got my doubts about how much to contribute to the already rich among us...' Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom |
Posted By: Manunkind
Date Posted: May 22 2005 at 12:59
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Oh, the music ------------- "In war there is no time to teach or learn Zen. Carry a strong stick. Bash your attackers." - Zen Master Ikkyu Sojun |
Posted By: NetsNJFan
Date Posted: May 22 2005 at 13:03
I've listened to the Mekanik Kommado one about 3 times. I still find it impenetrable and plain weird. Zeuhl is not for me. I rather like the language/concept aspect (big science fiction fan), nice tough Vander. ------------- 
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Posted By: Alfi
Date Posted: May 22 2005 at 13:52
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Zeuhl is not for everyone. I'm still trying to get into it. Magma is still a bit disturbing. However I love Guapo-Five Suns so maybe in the not-so-far future I'll be able to enjoy Magma. |
Posted By: tuxon
Date Posted: May 22 2005 at 14:09
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I was immidiatly hooked to Magma's musick, quite accesible actually. Before listening to it I expected something more strange, but I like them a lot, from first listening on.  ------------- I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: May 22 2005 at 14:20
Lucky you! ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: mirco
Date Posted: May 22 2005 at 14:29
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I happen to download a bunch of canterbury and zheul songs from the archives, for make a compilation: Magma, National health, Gong, Picchio, Egg, Samla, Soft machine and Shub Niggurath. Very challenging to get from the beginning, but awesome stuff. Magma, very operatic: it brings to my mind memories of Carmina Burana. ------------- Please forgive me for my crappy english! |
Posted By: Bryan
Date Posted: May 22 2005 at 14:31
| Yeah, I'm not a fan of Magma either. They're one of those bands you'll either love or hate, and I am way on the hate side. |
Posted By: Joren
Date Posted: May 22 2005 at 14:45
| The concept of Magma is not that interesting, IMO. But the music is FANTASTIC! |
Posted By: Dan Yaron
Date Posted: May 22 2005 at 16:59
| I consider it boring, and I don't consider it weird, just boring. |
Posted By: The Hemulen
Date Posted: May 22 2005 at 17:28
| I've never thought Magma was very weird... no more weird than 20th century classical or Zappa might be. They just make damn good music (to my ears), and that's enough for me. |
Posted By: Jimbo
Date Posted: May 22 2005 at 17:35
I've only heard MDK so far, good stuff 
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Posted By: strawberry
Date Posted: May 22 2005 at 20:38
I love Magma. Definitly an aquired taste. Their music is rather hipnotic and has many constant rhythms. I saw them in San Francisco(1999) for their first American appearance. A total religious experience. There is always mixed feelings from this band. They went through lots of personell changes and are still around today.  ------------- taste is but a matter of oppinion. |
Posted By: Xanadu
Date Posted: May 23 2005 at 05:05
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Honestly i find Mekanik Kommandh a bit dull, maybe because of its length, which often doesnt has to be a bad thing, but this is a little bit repetive for my taste Mekanik Destrutiw Kommadh is, on the other hand, shorter and more intense with a touch of rock (kobaia iss de hundin). Essential...
------------- "Oh, yes, sitting-the great leveler. From the mightiest pharaoh to the lowliest peasant, who doesn't enjoy a good sit?" |
Posted By: ummagumma08
Date Posted: May 23 2005 at 05:33
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I absolutely love Magma, my aquaintance with them started likewise with the download of "Da Zeuhl Wortz Mekanik" off this website, first I thought "what the heck?", secondly I began to think it was funny, and material for a good laugh with all the high-pitched voices and wierd language, and finally it really got to me as a truly fantastic piece of music, and I couldn't rest until I got hold of a copy of the "Mekanik Destruktiw Kommandoh" album. I have now Magma's first 4 albums (all on vinyl of course As to what it is about, here is what Chrsitian Vander wrote in the linear notes of the vinyl: "End of Side 1 & Start of side 2 (where "Da Zeuhl Wortz Mekanik" begins.): Now they can chant the exercising hymns which take one to the State of Grace - The Supreme State. Eternety is nearing and they can feel it." (Vander 1973) It's a bit silly, but if understood correctly, "Da Zeuhl Worts Mekanik" is a hymne that will take you to the State of Grace btw here are "the lyrics": HORTZ FUR DEHN STEHKEN WEST Fuh mehn fuhl ehndoh litaah , ehndoh litaah, ehndoh litaah (4 times) owersi wehlo woseweh, owerisi wehlo woseweh (16 times) Ioss owehri, oh oh rehbidoi (4 times) eweleweh soi soi, eweleweh loi (4 times)
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) and It's really hard to tell which one is the best, as they are all GREAT. Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: May 23 2005 at 05:49
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Magma can be a turn-off at first, especially with their impenetrable lyrics. It is written in a language from the planet Kabaia they invented but receive mail written in Kobaian from fans. The music as someone mentioned is very much in the Carl Orff (Carmina Burana) mode but there is clearly some John Coltrane influences in there. Hang on with it. If you do catch on with that music, it can be orgasmic. One should be careful in judging a band on one download only! I was the one introducing Circus to the Archives and mailto:M@X - M@X intrigued by my review of Movin'On bought a copy and put in a download of a track of the album that does not represent the fullness of Circus's capacities. But looking at the album , it was almost impossible to find one that would do that unless the 20 min title track, so I think that download may be the most apt but not really representative. Same can be said of the Magma download. ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: May 23 2005 at 06:55
I'll listen again, don't worry! ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: DallasBryan
Date Posted: May 23 2005 at 07:11
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goofy and overblown IMO, Dun, Zao and Weidorje are digestible to me. When you take away the vocals from lala land they become mediorce. Think Magma and Henry Cow should have taken a cruise on a sinking ship for opening the door to numerous noise bands that claim to be making music. Only a viewpoint. actually avant garde fusion owns this crowning acheivement. |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: May 23 2005 at 07:16
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Understandable viewpoint! ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: goose
Date Posted: May 23 2005 at 10:01
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Exactly the same here. |
Posted By: Joren
Date Posted: May 23 2005 at 10:56
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You like Dream Theater? |
Posted By: Heptade
Date Posted: May 23 2005 at 11:27
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I used to have a Magma album that I dragged out at
parties to scare people but never really listened to...then one day I actually paid attention, and I finally got it. It's dramatic, weird, choral music. And the scary fuzz bass/mad drumming interlock is one of a kind. Now I own several Magma cds, which I listen to all the time. Definitely an acquired taste, but one worth a little perseverance. |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: May 23 2005 at 11:52
Wether he does or he doesn't is hardly relevent is it? ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: silvertree
Date Posted: May 23 2005 at 13:17
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I first listened to a Magma record when I was 18 and I thought "what the hell is this ? This isn't music !". I gave it another chance a couple of years later and I thought "hell, there's really something happening here..." and bought a couple of their records starting by Kobaa. I've even seen them in concert : Vander is really incredible when you see him play behind his drum kit. He looks completely in transe and plays like a madman... anyway, what an atmosphere, a unique experience to be sure ! This really is challenging stuff and the reward is worth it. Having said this, I just can't get into Henry Cow... |
Posted By: Arteum
Date Posted: May 23 2005 at 13:28
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I love MAGMA! My favourite album right now is http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive_rock_discography_CD.asp?cd_id=3309" title="Go to Magma Udü Wüdü album review, Mp3, track listing - Udü Wüdü . By the way, read my review of "MDK": MAGMA Mekanik Destruktiw Kommandoh Review by Arteum Bochevarov @ 1:34:14 PM EST, 4/21/2005  —
I have a lot to say about “MDK”. This was my first zeuhl album and it is not
surprising I am bubbling with impatience to express my opinion. Having read a gread
deal of reviews on MAGMA, I was so intrigued by it that a secret masochistic desire
(masochistic because allegedly some people, if we are to believe their reviews, felt
the urge to vomit after hearing MAGMA) to listen to one of their albums was never
leaving me afterwards. Somehow I expected to hear what I have eventually heard and
somehow I had always known I would like it. Some people perhaps have a natural
predilection for zeuhl although they might have never heard it. I remember, when I
was a ten year old kid, and frequently bored at home or just in need of a change, I
would pace to and fro in my room and chant some crazy tunes, first in my native
Russian (making up purposefully meaningless lyrics as I sang), and later it turned
into simple exploration of my voice accompanied with rather strange dancing. My voice
was horrible, I knew it all the time, but it was insignificant in comparison with the
weird artistic form of expression I had discovered for myself. Of course, I knew
nothing about zeuhl then, and my amateurish, playful and silly singing was not zeuhl
– it was rather a primitive joy of music (in fact, zeuhl has the same roots, that is,
the primitive joy of and celebration of music, which Christian Vander implied, in my
opinion, in some of his interviews). But in this unprejudiced feeling for pure music
I find my liking for MAGMA. You may think that with my apparently bizarre childhood
and liking for MAGMA my prog “orientation” might be a bit rainbowish too. But yet, my
five most favourite prog bands are PINK FLOYD, GENESIS, ÄNGLAGÅRD, PORCUPINE TREE and
MARILLION, liked and respected by every proghead, irrespective of his attitude to zeuhl.MAGMA reminds me slightly of a famous Russian group AUCTYON (unfortunately, still not present at progarchives.com) with which I became acquainted when I was sixteen or so. AUCTYON is a mix of traditional rock, RIO and probably zeuhl (in its Russian form). I love AUCTYON dearly to this day. And I think AUCTYON was another preparatory stage which allowed me to take MAGMA calmly and with an avid interest, unlike some people who rate MAGMA’s albums with one star. Now, about the very album, “Mekanik Destruktiw Kommandoh”. It is very difficult to rate it for me, since I have not heard any other zeuhl albums yet. It is like asking someone at the beginning of the 20th century to rate the music of Britney Spears. I am sure, poor Britney would be considered sheer prog just because her “Hit me baby one more time” would seem somewhere around 1900 as original, innovative and technically highly accomplished music. The same to me is zeuhl – I have nothing to compare it with, and as it sounds fantastic and delightful (and invokes in my mind the songs which witches in fairytales would sing, when meeting in great numbers at the top of the hill under the full moon), I am tempted to give it all five stars. And the more I listen to it the more I like it. The same recurring rhythm and the minimalism principle have a hypnotic quality and I may play and enjoy the album five times a day. The parts I like most is where the women sing with great effect something like “Yes, …!”, “Yes, …!” … (around 7:50 of “Hortz Fur Dehn Stekehn West” and especially around 6:07 of “Da Zeuhl Wortz Mekanik”). “Nebehr_Gudahtt” is almost hysterical – in this I agree with one of the reviewers. In summary, I give “MDK” four and a half stars. Four is too few because not many other albums in the last year or so had such a profound influence on me, and five is too many since I cannot (or still am not bold enough) to number “MDK” among “Wish You Were Here”, “The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway” and “Epilog”. But I think four and a half stars is a very high rating nevertheless, and I am dying to listen to my next MAGMA album (which I already have), “1001 Centigrades”. |
Posted By: Myrrh
Date Posted: May 23 2005 at 13:59
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I have been loving them since I have listened to the first ten seconds
of Da Zeuhl Worts Mekanik, which was the first Zeuhl-song I have heard.
They are just fantastic. I can only recommend Eskaton and Art Zoyd to you if you like Magma |
Posted By: Dan Yaron
Date Posted: May 23 2005 at 15:48
No way mate! If i had to choose between Magma and Dream Theatre I would choose Magma, although they cannot be compared. |
Posted By: NetsNJFan
Date Posted: May 23 2005 at 15:50
I'd pick magma too, although both are pretty bad, imo. -------------
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Posted By: mirco
Date Posted: May 23 2005 at 16:37
There are other stuff besides Genesis an Yes, do a favor to yourself and explore new orizons...------------- Please forgive me for my crappy english! |
Posted By: NetsNJFan
Date Posted: May 23 2005 at 16:39
if I've listened to 2 of their albums i consider that 'exploring' lay off i prefer my music to be listenable. -------------
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Posted By: mirco
Date Posted: May 23 2005 at 16:42
------------- Please forgive me for my crappy english! |
Posted By: NetsNJFan
Date Posted: May 23 2005 at 16:50
Tull is great - sadly as you were postign this i changed my sig (I change it frequently) -------------
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Posted By: Dan Yaron
Date Posted: May 23 2005 at 17:50
Does knowning what you like mean you are narrow-minded? If yes, I am proud to declare that I am narrow-minded =) |
Posted By: NetsNJFan
Date Posted: May 23 2005 at 17:53
I agree, I know what I like, but i'l try any album once (unless its rap). -------------
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Posted By: tuxon
Date Posted: May 24 2005 at 13:25
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I have been listening to Kobaia (Magma's debut ) for the last three days non-stop. sheer bloody brilliant great musick. I'm going to listen to something else now, probably MDK, I almost have my Magma collection complete, haven't encountered a bad album yet. gonna play 1001 centigrades for the next couple of days now  ------------- I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT |
Posted By: Joren
Date Posted: May 24 2005 at 19:28
| 1001 degrees centigrades is fantastic! But MDK stays the best, I think! |
Posted By: tuxon
Date Posted: May 24 2005 at 19:40
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Only problem I have with Magma, is remembering the song titles ------------- I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT |
Posted By: Joren
Date Posted: May 24 2005 at 21:47
me too 
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Posted By: ummagumma08
Date Posted: May 25 2005 at 04:26
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Me too, but I've been practising a lot these past months, and in fact I'm able to actually memorize the "lyrics" and sing-along to many parts from MDK, it's quite funny, surely a recommendable thing to do I feel there is a big leap from the 2 first Magma albums to MDK, and for me it's really hard to tell which album I like the best, the more "jazzy" style of the two first, or the dramatic operatic feel of MDK. They are almost equally great, but where the two first albums (the debut & 1001 degrees centigrades) perhaps each are a 4.999 star, MDK is a 5 star. Magma must truly be the best progressive band of all time (imo). |
Posted By: Syzygy
Date Posted: May 25 2005 at 05:15
I've been a big fan for over 25 years now. Even on these boards they're a bit of a minority interest, but it's nice to know that there are other Zeuhl heads out there. IMO the studio album which captures Magma best is Kontarkhosz, which has elements of the earlier, jazzy Magma mixed in with the trademark style of MDK. Live - Hhai also features a stunning version of Kontarkhosz, and is probably the best place for newbies to start.
------------- 'Like so many of you I've got my doubts about how much to contribute to the already rich among us...' Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom |
Posted By: tuxon
Date Posted: May 25 2005 at 06:26
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The only Zeuhl I know is Magma. As a side discussion. Which other Zeuhl artists/bands are equally likeble. top 3 should suffice for the comming months
------------- I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT |
Posted By: NetsNJFan
Date Posted: June 10 2005 at 16:16
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It's amazing. Over the last month I have done a complete 180, and have changed my opinion on Magma. It's not all that bad. It does need some serious adjustment time though.
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Posted By: Joren
Date Posted: June 10 2005 at 17:35
I'm glad to hear that Give it a few more months and Magma will be in your top list! That's how it started with me too: First the fascination, then you really start loving it! |
Posted By: goose
Date Posted: June 10 2005 at 18:27
Have you tried Art Bears (i.e., Henry Cow writing tunes  )?
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Posted By: NetsNJFan
Date Posted: June 10 2005 at 19:48
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I planned on it, but then i found out that witch Dagmar Krause was their vocalist. I think she has the worst voice in prog. -------------
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Posted By: The Hemulen
Date Posted: June 10 2005 at 20:11
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Posted By: Hamatai
Date Posted: September 28 2005 at 04:57
I completely agree. |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: September 28 2005 at 05:11
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Good point about "Carmina Burana", because Magma are definitely influenced by Carl Orff. -------------  BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: Bob Greece
Date Posted: September 28 2005 at 05:31
Can anyone translate this? Also ... anyone here speak Vogon? ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/BobGreece/?chartstyle=basicrt10"> 
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Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: September 28 2005 at 07:38
Me too. I haven't been able to get into it at all. |
Posted By: Rob The Good
Date Posted: September 28 2005 at 07:46
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I love Magma, probably because I came across them at a time when I "needed something different". They really struck a chord with the whole jazz opera schtick. ------------- And Jesus said unto John, "come forth and receive eternal life..." Unfortunately, John came fifth and was stuck with a toaster. |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: September 28 2005 at 08:02
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The first Magma album I heard was "d Wd", and I loved it immediately.
------------- BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: OldFatherThames
Date Posted: September 28 2005 at 08:55
| Personnaly, I really think their concept of new language is absolutely stupid !! Why did they created that ?? It make the music three times weakest ! I don' like their music either...maybe some good points, but not a lot. No.....I really don't like his band ! |
Posted By: Doesburger
Date Posted: September 28 2005 at 09:13
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OK, I'll bite. What is so stupid about it? Or is it because you don't understand the 'words'? |
Posted By: OldFatherThames
Date Posted: September 28 2005 at 09:30
I reverse the question...what do you like about it ? I just find it to be a stupid idea to speak in a non sense langage. Why ?? Is it bring something to the music ? Like someone said before, it's like a science fiction concept, and I absolutely hate science fiction ! |
Posted By: Doesburger
Date Posted: September 28 2005 at 10:12
I'll reverse the question... what don't you like about it? What makes you think it's nonsense language? |
Posted By: OldFatherThames
Date Posted: September 28 2005 at 10:23
Maybe it make sense for Them but it doesn't for us, so we cannot understand what they are saying. What I don't like ? I just find it to be a stupid idea. They try to be original, but I think they went too far on their originality, which make their concept ridiculous. And if the langage make sense, it's probably a story about alien, or science fiction like that, I don't know !! Like I said before, I absolutely hate science fiction, which doesn't help me to appreciate this strange and IMO boring band. And you, what do you find so genious about this band and especially their weird concept ? |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: September 28 2005 at 10:30
Hungarian probably wouldn't make sense to you either, but would you condemn a Hungarian band for it? ------------- BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: OldFatherThames
Date Posted: September 28 2005 at 10:34
Hungarian is a langage ! Magma create a langage to have a kind of science fiction concept which I think is a bit stupid, that's all ! It's my opinion !! |
Posted By: Mnemosyne
Date Posted: September 28 2005 at 10:38
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Magma's ideas have always been very personal, though very weird... but that is part of what makes the band great... They invented their own language as a part of their concept, surely they'll never be equaled... ------------- I'm a Man-Owl-Fish. Creator-Observer-Muse. |
Posted By: Doesburger
Date Posted: September 28 2005 at 10:44
You don't understand the 'lyrics' and still you come up with this idea (the idea of someone else, you said, but still) that it's science fiction. How can you tell? |
Posted By: OldFatherThames
Date Posted: September 28 2005 at 10:57
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Even if it's not science fiction !! Who cares ! If they talk about monkey of Africa or whatever ! I still think their idea being ridiculous...that's what I say !! But if it's science fiction, it's even weakest !! If you still don't understand my point of view, I can make you a draw. |
Posted By: The Hemulen
Date Posted: September 28 2005 at 10:58
| Magma is fun. Zeuhl is fun! |
Posted By: Doesburger
Date Posted: September 28 2005 at 11:17
Your point was that you don't like Magma (which is your own business) because you think writing lyrics in a created language is stupid. My point is that since you don't understand the lyrics, how can you say that's stupid? A drawing would be appreciated. And, yes I got it. You don't like science-ficiton. But that's not the subject of this discussion. |
Posted By: OldFatherThames
Date Posted: September 28 2005 at 11:26
I don't say the content of the lyrics are stupid. Maybe what they say is the greatest poetry of all time ! I don' know and I don't care. I just don't like their concept of creating a langage...THAT'S my point !! |
Posted By: The Hemulen
Date Posted: September 28 2005 at 11:32
Do you think it's stupid when vocalists make sounds with their voices that aren't words? Thjis van Leer of Focus, for instance. Why not think of Magma's lyrics as just sounds and the voices as another instrument? |
Posted By: OldFatherThames
Date Posted: September 28 2005 at 11:43
Yes, you can take his voice like an instrument if you want, but that's not the point. I just say I find it stupid to create a langage and make all your songs around it. If you like that, it's your way, but I don't. Van Leer sometimes use his voices like an instruments and I find it ok. But I don't like the "world" that Magma create with their music and their lyrics. And I'm almost sure that his voices is not only use as an instrument. I really think it's a part of the concept of the band. |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: September 28 2005 at 11:45
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Its quite gratifying when one of ones old threads gets a bit of an airing! ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: The Hemulen
Date Posted: September 28 2005 at 11:47
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Aye. Has your own opinion on Magma shifted at all, Snowy? |
Posted By: goose
Date Posted: September 28 2005 at 11:51
Hang on, hang on! You haven't picked up on the biggest flaw in his argument! If he can tell that it's science fiction without understanding the words, then the language in combination with the music must be communicating somehow, which means it can't just be nonsense!
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: September 28 2005 at 11:51
Haven't really listened since this thread was started......I'll give 'em anotrher go though! ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: ummagumma08
Date Posted: September 30 2005 at 14:58
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I dont think that the Magma "lyrics" make any sense, they are not supposed to! Thats the entire point! To complain about that they dont make sense is senseless! For Magma the vocal cords are just another instrument! It seems to be a very common view that Magma invented the "language" as a somewhat pointless show-off stunt, when I tell people about Magma and the invented language, I usually hear something like: "Thats the most stupid thing Ive heard about". But I really dont see it that way, to me it seems that the "language" has arisen because, at some point, Vander humbly realised that he wasnt able to write lyrics in the traditional sense with a satisfactory content, thus an urge for writing choral/vocal arrangements triggered the language. To make a complaint that the language isnt understandable is, the way I see it, very irrelevant, the whole point is that we are not supposed to wonder what the strange sounds that make up the so called "language" mean, like we do with regular lyrics, thats probably the main reason why they use this "language" anyway; to make us focus on the music rather than the lyrics! Like discussed in another thread, I really dont think it gives much sense even to call "Kobaian" a language, as said before, its merely the vocal cords functioning as an instrument, the sounds that results from that is hardly considered a language! theres no real semantic content (apart from the fact that a few words have had meanings assigned to them, for instance the case that wurdah means murder). The way I see it Magma didnt invent the language, it just happened rather automatically, as to serve a sincere purpose, certainly not pointless! (if we are to believe Vander, I do (my biggest idol |
Posted By: RoyalJelly
Date Posted: September 30 2005 at 15:47
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You have to put it in context: Magmas first album was in 1970.
The only people doing a viable fusion of jazz and rock at this time were Miles Davis, Frank Zappa & the Mothers, Tony William's Lifetime (with John MacLaughlin), and in Europe, Soft Machine and Magma. With all due respect to Soft Machine, while incredibly beautiful and creative, they were still very much experimenting. Magma came on the scene with a totally complete concept, and a very solid combination of jazz, rock and modern classic. And one of the earliest concept albums, which not only spanned an album, but many over decades. Not all of them are so outstanding, but the first one is dazzling and radical, and Kontrakosz is an intoxicatingly beautiful and close to perfect album (a teacher of mine once said "There's nothing more boring than perfection"). I like that their songs are in an incomprehensible language, thereby avoiding ALL the clichs and kitch of prog pseudo-poetry, and keeping the listener always focused on the music. Their influence was extensive, in Europe at least...without Magma, no Henry Cow, Art Zoyd, Univers Zero, etc. as we know them... |
Posted By: Violenza
Date Posted: September 30 2005 at 16:18
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Magma is the most innovative and daring prog band. They are, in my opinion, what prog was supposed to be. d Wd is one of my favourite albums. |
Posted By: Syzygy
Date Posted: September 30 2005 at 17:29
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Kobaian was developed by Christian Vander and Klaus Blasquiz, at least partly because the French language wasn't suitable for the kind of vocal sound Vander had in mind. The invented language was intended to sound German/Slavonic, hence the large number of hard consonants. According to Chris Cutler, Christian and Klaus occasionally conversed in Kobaian but the language was rather limited - many ways to say 'Die, accursed race of Earthmen!' but now way to say 'Would you like a coffee?'. Other bands to do something similar - Can with Damo Suzuki, who sang in a mixture of English, Japanese, German and gibberish. He referred to it as the language of the stone age. Sigur Ros sing in Hopelandic. Ruins sing in a made up tongue of their own invention. The Cocteau Twins had their own bizarre language as well - in The Crow Road by Iain Banks the central character knows he's stoned when he can understand what Liz Fraser is singing. ------------- 'Like so many of you I've got my doubts about how much to contribute to the already rich among us...' Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom |
Posted By: eugene
Date Posted: September 30 2005 at 19:32
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Frankly, I cannot see any fun in Magma. Must admit that I have just started to dig into this subgenre of prog, and borrowed from friend of mine 4 albums of Magma (' 73 - Mekanik..., '74- Kontrakto..., 77- Udu Wudu and 84 - Merci). Starting with the last: 'Merci' I found to be a complete rubbish - more low quality disco than anything else. The other 3 are much more interesting. Not the easiest kind of music to get into, and certainly it takes time to diggest, but it is quite challenging. But still no fun! It is rather disturbing, depressing, neurvous, psychic music. In best moment it reminds me of Art Zoyd and Univers Zero (Heresie). I also borrowed 3 albums by Zao (who belonging to Zeuhl as well, according to these Archives). I find music of Zao completely different, and it is very strange to me that two absolutely different bands are in the same subgenre. Zao is very good fusion/jazz-rock, with beautiful expressive violin, much easier accessible than magma, and although quite serious, can be called fun at moments. I also have amon duul II "Phallos dei" which is closer to Magma, I would say, but they are in Kraut rock division. Would be interesting to hear experts opinion about Zeuhl, Kraut, their similarities and differences, and by which criteria one can tell one from the other. ------------- carefulwiththataxe |
Posted By: tuxon
Date Posted: September 30 2005 at 22:37
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phallus dei is indeed in some moments comparable to Zeuhl, and so is some RIO, and even Canterbury has on occasion some links to the Zeuhl movement (not to mention Fusion which is IMO the core of the genre). but krautrock had only in the beginning days some minor things in common, mostly it was the experimental, space rock oriented approach, but Kraut moved to a more electronic, ambient style, while Zeuhl searched the borders of bass/drum oriented music. or something like that ------------- I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT |
Posted By: SlipperFink
Date Posted: September 30 2005 at 23:32
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DeFutura is hilariously great.
SM. ------------- Modesty is an ornament, but one goes further without it. Old German Proverb |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 08:23
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how about mozart? |
Posted By: Joren
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 08:40
Koenjihyakkei have their own language as well, right? |
Posted By: Winterkaelte
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 09:06
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I think Magma are brilliant, i found MDK a little bit hard to grasp at first though. ------------- -Lee Arkley |
Posted By: Syzygy
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 14:51
Koenji Hyakkei are a kind of sister band to Ruins (both are led by drummer/composer Yoshida Tatsuya) and as far as I can work out they both use the same language. ------------- 'Like so many of you I've got my doubts about how much to contribute to the already rich among us...' Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom |
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 14:56
Sausagey,what is it with you and gibberish? |
Posted By: Hamatai
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 15:57
If you think, that they really "sing" something senseful on "Kobaian", you are mistaken. Vander has once said, that he wants his music to be unambiguous. And lyrics, in traditional sense, are ambiguous. When I say "sky", everyone imagines his own sky. When the song is called "Love bites", for example, everyone remembers his former love, that made some hurt. But if the song is called "Kohntarkosz", you can't imagine, what's this song about. The main thing about Magma's singing is not what they sing, but how they sing. That does matter. |
Posted By: Joren
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 15:58
Ah! thanks for the info |