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 Posted: May 06 2005 at 21:47 |
 gdub411 wrote:
lostrom wrote:
Progs enemy number one was not punk! It was the most evil of all...I dare not say it, but I must......: DISCO |
Prog's biggest enemy was prog itself. The musicians of that era lost interest and decided to make some money.
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No, no, no...my dear friend...that was NOT the case...I was a teen during that period, and I know from many sources, that this is not the case. Please, what you believe in is a myth! The truth is, if we're gonna be serious...the truth is that they where forced to change their music by the "winds of time". They were forced! Some musicians paniced, for example Gene Clark (ex The Byrds). He once said in an interviev that: "Suddenly, in just one year or so, everything changed. Big stars hardly got their tickets sold anymore. The record-companies demanded hit-singles and beat-drums. It was hard for me even to get a gig. All was about this punk! Everything else was just not in fashion anylonger". So, the dinasours did fell, but thay fell while being attacked. Some quit, but most of them just tried to survive. Van der graaf Generator had to wait for more then 25 years to come out again. Next? Gentle Giant? Perhaps...
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Progger
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Posted: May 06 2005 at 21:51 |
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I don't know why some some punk artists turned against prog. Mick Jones of The Clash was a hippie at school & listened to Yes ect. It's in a Clash biography!
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Posted: May 06 2005 at 21:57 |
Progger wrote:
I don't know why some some punk artists turned against prog. Mick Jones of The Clash was a hippie at school & listened to Yes ect. It's in a Clash biography! |
I think it was an attitude thing. Mainly it was the critics we should blame. They still destroy our playground, these damned critics
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gdub411
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Posted: May 06 2005 at 22:01 |
lostrom wrote:
gdub411 wrote:
lostrom wrote:
Progs enemy number one was not punk! It was the most evil of all...I dare not say it, but I must......: DISCO |
Prog's biggest enemy was prog itself. The musicians of that era lost interest and decided to make some money.
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No, no, no...my dear friend...that was NOT the case...I was a teen during that period, and I know from many sources, that this is not the case. Please, what you believe in is a myth! The truth is, if we're gonna be serious...the truth is that they where forced to change their music by the "winds of time". They were forced! Some musicians paniced, for example Gene Clark (ex The Byrds). He once said in an interviev that: "Suddenly, in just one year or so, everything changed. Big stars hardly got their tickets sold anymore. The record-companies demanded hit-singles and beat-drums. It was hard for me even to get a gig. All was about this punk! Everything else was just not in fashion anylonger". So, the dinasours did fell, but thay fell while being attacked. Some quit, but most of them just tried to survive. Van der graaf Generator had to wait for more then 25 years to come out again. Next? Gentle Giant? Perhaps...
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Yeah, there is some truth to what you say but there were still prog bands cropping up in the late 70's. It was that our most popular ones all seemed to move into the pop direction which I am sure was spurred on by the record company execs....Pink Floyd is the one case where your theory doesn't fit.
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Posted: May 06 2005 at 22:07 |
I see your point of view as well
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penguindf12
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Posted: May 06 2005 at 23:33 |
Prog died because counterculture died. Punk wasn't just thrust on the masses, it came as a reaction to dying counterculture. Punk is not nearly as bad as disco/techno. Punk is a sort of iconoclastic reaction to society. Prog was an intelligent reaction. Disco was much more anti-prog than punk. Punk had a social conscience, however ill-expressed and dimwitted it may be. Disco was thudding, conformist rhythm, constant, unchanging. It had no conscience, no purpose other than dancing. On a side note, punk was not like it is today, really. It had a point, it was a reaction against what they saw as the enemy. They saw prog as that enemy, and they were, of course, fairly blind, but hey, any reaction is better than complete resignation and loss of conscience. Punk today is pop, with no purpose. Especially Blink 182s brand of it, and their ilk. Johnny Rotten of the Sex Pistols may be considered a genius, as close as you get in punk. His influences included Peter Hammill, Can, and Capt. Beefheart. That's where the "Nadir's Big Chance" thing came in, he was influenced by it, and began punk.
Prog is a sort of hidden, unknown influencer of all good music. Most "extremely good/legendary/universal" songs have a prog influence, like "Sgt. Peppers" (the whole thing), "Kashmir", "Stairway to Heaven", "Paranoid Android", a lot of stuff by the Who, etc.
Oh, and prog punk bands. There is such a thing: The Cardiacs, The Mars Volta, numerous bands which I've never heard but have heard of such as Primus, and Green Day to a certain very small infintesimal way only visible in their descision to write two 9-minute multimovement songs in a concept album. They could be pop punk prog, which emphasis on the first two words.
Try to resist posting things saying "GREEN DAY ISNT PROG THEY DONT SHOW ANY HINT OF IT". I'm not saying that they are, or do. I said, the only influence they may have is the two 9 minute songs and the concept. That's it.
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Abbath
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Posted: May 07 2005 at 00:00 |
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'Progressive Punk" is an oxymoron.
Like "Good Dream Theater".
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Mr. Krinkle
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Posted: May 07 2005 at 00:13 |
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Well indeed, there is Prog-Punk. Like 5 years ago I listened to a NOFX
album. For the ones who dont know, NOFX is a classic punk band from the
90's. Well, i cant remember the name of the album, but, it was really
prog-punk. i mean, it had punk chords and style but the complexity of
prog rock, it was good, i wish i could remember the name of the album.
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Peter
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Posted: May 07 2005 at 00:16 |
 By definition, such a thing is an oxymoron -- a contradiction in terms. As soon as they're "progressive," they're no longer "punk."
still....
 The Stranglers? (Could be....)
 Latter-day Clash?
The Damned -- check out "Under the Floor Again" -- killer tune, lots of depth! 
(sorry Reed -- just read your post -- you said it first! )
Edited by Peter
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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penguindf12
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Posted: May 07 2005 at 00:23 |
Well, punk could be used as the "style". Take the ethos of punk, the sound, the feel, and combine it with the complexity, intelligence, and intentions of prog, and there you go. Plus, without prog punk, what would we use to define the style the Mars Volta play?
But who really cares, music is music. If its good, it's bad, and if it's bad, it's good. Or so thinks Ozzy Osbourne of our opinions of music, the old sellout.
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Peter
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Posted: May 07 2005 at 00:23 |
James Lee wrote:
It's a good thing we have punk to blame, or maybe we'd be forced to recognize that the original prog scene was already starting to run out of steam... |
Exactly!
The 80s (actually, approx 76-77 to 86-87) were NOT a lost decade, musically! The best of those so-called "hair" bands revitalized music, opened up the market, and broadened people's tastes.
That was the music of my late teens to mid 20s, and I had a GREAT time!
Edited by Peter
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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Peter
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Posted: May 07 2005 at 00:25 |
Take Abbath wrote:
'Progressive Punk" is an oxymoron.
Like "Good Dream Theater".
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Or "progressive metal."
Edited by Peter
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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James Lee
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Posted: May 07 2005 at 02:55 |
I just have to question the statement that punk was so in fashion that proggers couldn't get gigs...punk did not have a single high-grossing touring band, and no punk band ever sold albums in the numbers that AOR rock bands were selling before, during, or after the '77-'80 height of punk. Dark Side remained on the charts, and Rush continued to be selling out stadiums worldwide. So economically, it can't have been punk that killed prog. QED.
The 'damage' was mainly to the fashionable element...and let's face it, we progheads don't want anybody who isn't in it for the music, anyway!
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oliverstoned
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Posted: May 07 2005 at 03:03 |
Only one band: Gong: Floating anarchy period
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Posted: May 07 2005 at 03:41 |
Punk was just another fashion in a fenomenom, popular music, that was becoming more and more chained to "teen fashion" and the market. Punkers believed they were doing stuff against the market, instead they invented the 100 percent commercial musica, in the sense that you do't have to rellay "understand it", just buy it, and let's start the pogo dance.It's like potato chips, open them up and eat and shut up.
Anyway, here is a punk-prog album that strangely enough, nobody cited
Robert Fripp's "Exposure"
That's definitely it. Just listen to "Disengage" or the "ramounesque" "You burn me up a cigarette"......
If I think punk is commercial, this isn't strictly punk, just because Hammill screams like a madman and Fripps just rape his Les Paul. I think it's more of bringing down to the essential what the Crims has always done: fluctuating music between violence and love.
Great lp............
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Miaugion
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Posted: May 07 2005 at 05:06 |
Voivod:
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You house proud town mouse
ha ha, charade you are
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Mategra
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Posted: May 07 2005 at 05:25 |
I think the core of both prog and punk is rebellion against the average, boring, run-of-the-mill popular music. Prog tends to go towards refinement and complexity while punk tends to go towards rawness and simplicity. These two approaches may seem to contradict each other but they can be combined and the result can often be awesome.
Some of my favourite examples:
- PETER HAMMILL - Nadir's Big Chance
- PETER HAMMILL - The Future Now
- DOCTORS OF MADNESS - Figments of Emanicipation
- ROBERT FRIPP - Exposure (featuring P. Hammill, P. Gabriel a.o.)
- THE STRANGLERS - In Concert (feat. Hammill, Fripp, Steve Hillage a.o.)
- TOYAH - Sheep Farming in Barnet
- TOYAH - The Blue Meaning
- CARDIACS - The complete discography
- STUMP - A Fierce Pancake
- THINKING PLAGUE - A Thinking Plague
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Snow Dog
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Posted: May 07 2005 at 06:37 |
lostrom wrote:
The Stranglers, The Sound, Twelfth Night (?), Violent Femmes, Echo & the Bunnymen....close enough.. |
Echo and the Bunnymen...Punk?...never! ( not Television either)....in fact not even The Stranglers excepy for a couple of tracks.
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The Hemulen
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Posted: May 07 2005 at 06:59 |
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Just to further back up those who rightly say that Prog-Punk is NOT an
oxymoron - I'm listening to the Cardiacs right now, and if they're not
progressive punk then my legs don't have any feet on them.
(And just for reference, my legs do in fact have some feet - one on each, as is the standard fitting).
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Snow Dog
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Posted: May 07 2005 at 07:07 |
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Yes but do your shoulders have a head on them?
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Progressive Punk?
