Real 5 star albums |
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Under
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 02 2005 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 389 |
Topic: Real 5 star albums Posted: August 12 2005 at 09:28 |
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Behold the definitions of the stars rating system.
A 5 star rating is an essential album. It is my feeling all reviewers think that evert progressive album should be at least 4 stars and a 2 star album is a very bad poppish album. This way of rating doesn't match with the definitions above and makes the whole rating and reviewing system of lower quality. Judging the definitions above, described to rate progressive albums, what would be the real 5 stars albums, in other words the albums which are essential to your progerssive music collection?
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bumheed7
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 31 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 134 |
Posted: August 12 2005 at 09:36 | |||||||||||||||
close to the edge
selling england by the pound brain salad surgery the only essential albums |
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Good Morning Carpark Fans
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BaldJean
Prog Reviewer Joined: May 28 2005 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 10387 |
Posted: August 12 2005 at 09:43 | |||||||||||||||
hmm, I must say I have a problem with that definition. surely the number of stars should stand for "quality" of an album. but that has nothing whatever to do with "essentiality" of an album. two totally different concepts. an album may be very excellent, perhaps even the very best album of all prog, but it may at the same time be so obscure it can hardly be called "essential" for any prog collection. and my personal opinion is the star rating is about "quality" of an album and not "essentiality". if it gets down to "essentiality" then the usual suspects have been named already; they are those albums listed at the top of the database. but this is not what I rate in an album. perhaps there should be two different ratings in the system: one for essentiality, the other for quality
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A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
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Under
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 02 2005 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 389 |
Posted: August 12 2005 at 09:45 | |||||||||||||||
Yes, it is difficult to come up with 5 albums that are essential. I agree on Close to the Edge of Yes. I have some doubts if Selling England by the Pound is an essential masterpiece. It could well be transferred for Foxtrot in my opinion, which is also great and perhaps since it contains the 20 + minutes song Supper's Ready more essential. Personally I think the album SFAM from Dream Theater is essential, being a masterpiece in the prog metall. Bythe way the only Dream Theater album which I would find essential. The latest Octavarium would be good, but no essential = 3 stars.
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Frasse
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 22 2004 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 758 |
Posted: August 12 2005 at 09:50 | |||||||||||||||
hmm...
Genesis - SEBTP Genesis - Seconds Out Amon Düül II - Wolf City These are essential in my collection, but essential for everyone is IMO; CTTE and The Lamb. |
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Under
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 02 2005 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 389 |
Posted: August 12 2005 at 09:51 | |||||||||||||||
True what you are saying. The definitions of essentiality could well be compared to having the latest dictionary. It is essential, but to say you really like buying it. To state that the first 5 of the top 100 would be the essential masterpieces would mean two albums of Genesis. Nothing of Prog metall or neo prog and nothing later than the early 70's.
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Phil
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 17 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1881 |
Posted: August 12 2005 at 09:54 | |||||||||||||||
Its a good point that "essential" does not necessarily equate with
overall quality. If you were to list "essential" albums then there
might be some that are flawed; vice-versa, some albums that you feel
are top-notch musically are not "essential" . For instance I'm a huge
fan of Bruford's "Feels Good To Me", I think musically its worth 5
stars, but I wouldn't claim its an essential prog album. Whereas
I would say "Lamb Lies Down on Broadway" was essential as prog because
of the impact it had, it was so ambitious, Gabriel's last album.... yet
it is (IMHO) flawed. There are a few albums that meet both criteria and
at risk of starting up Genesis /Yes divisions again I would say CTTE is
one of them...
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BaldJean
Prog Reviewer Joined: May 28 2005 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 10387 |
Posted: August 12 2005 at 09:58 | |||||||||||||||
you can hardly cover all styles of prog with five albums only, so if you choose the top essential five some genrés will always stay outside. also you will find some genrés aremoreliked than the others; probably most proggers love the symphonic genré; for RIO or Canterbury or prog-metal you will probably find less fans. you could of course list the top five for each category Edited by BaldJean |
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A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21496 |
Posted: August 12 2005 at 10:03 | |||||||||||||||
Have a look atthe subgenre lists: Most of the essential albums SHOULD be listed there. If they're not, it's up to you experts out there to review those gems of prog rock ... |
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chopper
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 13 2005 Location: Essex, UK Status: Offline Points: 20032 |
Posted: August 12 2005 at 10:07 | |||||||||||||||
I would personally only give 5 stars to a very selective number of albums. Among these would be the usual suspects (CTTE, SEBTP etc) and probably to those which are recognised classics but not my favourites (DSOTM, Tubular Bells, ITCOTKC). This would be to recognise the importance in the history of prog. |
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BaldJean
Prog Reviewer Joined: May 28 2005 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 10387 |
Posted: August 12 2005 at 10:15 | |||||||||||||||
I myself don't care about historic importance. if it came down to that, "Psychedelic Underground" by the German Amon Düül (who are not even in the archives, by the way; a real oversight) would deserve five stars, since it is the very first krautrock album ever and started the genré. but given the quality of the music it is maximum a two
Edited by BaldJean |
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A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21496 |
Posted: August 12 2005 at 10:20 | |||||||||||||||
The problem is that most people use 5 stars far more often than they should. This problem cannot be undone, so it's best to adapt and also use 5 star ratings more often. I'm not saying that 50% of your albums should be rated 5 stars - but definitely not just 5 albums. If you adhere to the letters of the descriptions of the ratings too closely, you are effectively punishing many albums that you rate 4 stars. |
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Phil
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 17 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1881 |
Posted: August 12 2005 at 10:21 | |||||||||||||||
I'm not big into them myself, but I am amazed to hear that Amon Duul are not listed... |
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BaldJean
Prog Reviewer Joined: May 28 2005 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 10387 |
Posted: August 12 2005 at 10:23 | |||||||||||||||
well, there are three bands named Amon Düül: Amon Düül (German), Amon Düül (British) and Amon Düül 2 (German). of them only Amon Düül 2 are in the archives |
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A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
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Under
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 02 2005 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 389 |
Posted: August 12 2005 at 10:24 | |||||||||||||||
Hmmm, I never noticed these lists. Thanks. Apparently progarchives.com has still some secrets for me. But there are a lot of albums listed, so I cannot go with you that all of these should be considered essential. Would't you agree that even your reviews are to hight considering the definitions and are mostly 4 tot 5 stars if you consider them a progworthy album? How would you overrate your reviews if you would stay to the definitions?
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BaldJean
Prog Reviewer Joined: May 28 2005 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 10387 |
Posted: August 12 2005 at 10:34 | |||||||||||||||
since I don't understand the ratings to be a contest of "bring albums I rate to the very top" I will give them exactly the ratings I think they deserve. I prefer to rate and review albums though that are little known and deserve some attention; I don't see the point in the 218456th review of "Close to the Edge". so the albums I review will usually get four or five stars; but this is not because I tend to rate albums too highly, it is because I make a preselection which album to review. why should I go and bring attention to a rare album that is not worth listening to? |
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A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21496 |
Posted: August 12 2005 at 10:40 | |||||||||||||||
When you browse the Krautrock top 100 list, you'll notice that there are many albums with one or two 5 star ratings. It might be useful to write a few negative reviews for albums which you think are overrated. CAN - Landed for example is rated 4 stars (average), but from what I heard, I would only rate it 2 to 3 stars. |
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King of Loss
Prog Reviewer Joined: April 21 2005 Location: Boston, MA Status: Offline Points: 16829 |
Posted: August 12 2005 at 10:46 | |||||||||||||||
Close to the Edge Thick as A Brick Images and Words BE |
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BaldJean
Prog Reviewer Joined: May 28 2005 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 10387 |
Posted: August 12 2005 at 10:59 | |||||||||||||||
compared to the other albums of Can "Landed" is a 3 only; I agree |
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A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
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Phil
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 17 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1881 |
Posted: August 12 2005 at 11:13 | |||||||||||||||
Phew! That would explain it! |
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