Real 5 star albums
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Forum Name: Prog Music Lounge
Forum Description: General progressive music discussions
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=10016
Printed Date: February 13 2025 at 04:05
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Topic: Real 5 star albums
Posted By: Under
Subject: Real 5 star albums
Date Posted: August 12 2005 at 09:28
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Behold the definitions of the stars rating system.
A 5 star rating is an essential album. It is my feeling all reviewers think that evert progressive album should be at least 4 stars and a 2 star album is a very bad poppish album. This way of rating doesn't match with the definitions above and makes the whole rating and reviewing system of lower quality. Judging the definitions above, described to rate progressive albums, what would be the real 5 stars albums, in other words the albums which are essential to your progerssive music collection?
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Replies:
Posted By: bumheed7
Date Posted: August 12 2005 at 09:36
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close to the edge selling england by the pound brain salad surgery the only essential albums ------------- Good Morning Carpark Fans 
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Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: August 12 2005 at 09:43
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hmm, I must say I have a problem with that definition. surely the number of stars should stand for "quality" of an album. but that has nothing whatever to do with "essentiality" of an album. two totally different concepts. an album may be very excellent, perhaps even the very best album of all prog, but it may at the same time be so obscure it can hardly be called "essential" for any prog collection. and my personal opinion is the star rating is about "quality" of an album and not "essentiality". if it gets down to "essentiality" then the usual suspects have been named already; they are those albums listed at the top of the database. but this is not what I rate in an album. perhaps there should be two different ratings in the system: one for essentiality, the other for quality -------------  A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: Under
Date Posted: August 12 2005 at 09:45
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Yes, it is difficult to come up with 5 albums that are essential. I agree on Close to the Edge of Yes. I have some doubts if Selling England by the Pound is an essential masterpiece. It could well be transferred for Foxtrot in my opinion, which is also great and perhaps since it contains the 20 + minutes song Supper's Ready more essential. Personally I think the album SFAM from Dream Theater is essential, being a masterpiece in the prog metall. Bythe way the only Dream Theater album which I would find essential. The latest Octavarium would be good, but no essential = 3 stars.
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Posted By: Frasse
Date Posted: August 12 2005 at 09:50
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hmm... Genesis - SEBTP Genesis - Seconds Out Amon Düül II - Wolf City These are essential in my collection, but essential for everyone is IMO; CTTE and The Lamb. |
Posted By: Under
Date Posted: August 12 2005 at 09:51
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True what you are saying. The definitions of essentiality could well be compared to having the latest dictionary. It is essential, but to say you really like buying it. To state that the first 5 of the top 100 would be the essential masterpieces would mean two albums of Genesis. Nothing of Prog metall or neo prog and nothing later than the early 70's.
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BaldJean wrote:Posted By: Phil
Date Posted: August 12 2005 at 09:54
| Its a good point that "essential" does not necessarily equate with overall quality. If you were to list "essential" albums then there might be some that are flawed; vice-versa, some albums that you feel are top-notch musically are not "essential" . For instance I'm a huge fan of Bruford's "Feels Good To Me", I think musically its worth 5 stars, but I wouldn't claim its an essential prog album. Whereas I would say "Lamb Lies Down on Broadway" was essential as prog because of the impact it had, it was so ambitious, Gabriel's last album.... yet it is (IMHO) flawed. There are a few albums that meet both criteria and at risk of starting up Genesis /Yes divisions again I would say CTTE is one of them... |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: August 12 2005 at 09:58
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you can hardly cover all styles of prog with five albums only, so if you choose the top essential five some genrés will always stay outside. also you will find some genrés aremoreliked than the others; probably most proggers love the symphonic genré; for RIO or Canterbury or prog-metal you will probably find less fans. you could of course list the top five for each category ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: August 12 2005 at 10:03
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Have a look atthe subgenre lists: Most of the essential albums SHOULD be listed there. If they're not, it's up to you experts out there to review those gems of prog rock ... ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa/aotm-2025-1/vote" rel="nofollow - 2025 Monthly Release Poll Listened to: 
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Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: August 12 2005 at 10:07
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I would personally only give 5 stars to a very selective number of albums. Among these would be the usual suspects (CTTE, SEBTP etc) and probably to those which are recognised classics but not my favourites (DSOTM, Tubular Bells, ITCOTKC). This would be to recognise the importance in the history of prog. |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: August 12 2005 at 10:15
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I myself don't care about historic importance. if it came down to that, "Psychedelic Underground" by the German Amon Düül (who are not even in the archives, by the way; a real oversight) would deserve five stars, since it is the very first krautrock album ever and started the genré. but given the quality of the music it is maximum a two ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: August 12 2005 at 10:20
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The problem is that most people use 5 stars far more often than they should. This problem cannot be undone, so it's best to adapt and also use 5 star ratings more often. I'm not saying that 50% of your albums should be rated 5 stars - but definitely not just 5 albums. If you adhere to the letters of the descriptions of the ratings too closely, you are effectively punishing many albums that you rate 4 stars. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa/aotm-2025-1/vote" rel="nofollow - 2025 Monthly Release Poll Listened to:
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Posted By: Phil
Date Posted: August 12 2005 at 10:21
I'm not big into them myself, but I am amazed to hear that Amon Duul are not listed... |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: August 12 2005 at 10:23
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well, there are three bands named Amon Düül: Amon Düül (German), Amon Düül (British) and Amon Düül 2 (German). of them only Amon Düül 2 are in the archives ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: Under
Date Posted: August 12 2005 at 10:24
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: August 12 2005 at 10:34
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since I don't understand the ratings to be a contest of "bring albums I rate to the very top" I will give them exactly the ratings I think they deserve. I prefer to rate and review albums though that are little known and deserve some attention; I don't see the point in the 218456th review of "Close to the Edge". so the albums I review will usually get four or five stars; but this is not because I tend to rate albums too highly, it is because I make a preselection which album to review. why should I go and bring attention to a rare album that is not worth listening to? ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: August 12 2005 at 10:40
When you browse the Krautrock top 100 list, you'll notice that there are many albums with one or two 5 star ratings. It might be useful to write a few negative reviews for albums which you think are overrated. CAN - Landed for example is rated 4 stars (average), but from what I heard, I would only rate it 2 to 3 stars. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa/aotm-2025-1/vote" rel="nofollow - 2025 Monthly Release Poll Listened to:
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Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: August 12 2005 at 10:46
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Close to the Edge Thick as A Brick Images and Words BE
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Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: August 12 2005 at 10:59
compared to the other albums of Can "Landed" is a 3 only; I agree ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: Phil
Date Posted: August 12 2005 at 11:13
Phew! That would explain it! |
Posted By: Under
Date Posted: August 12 2005 at 11:25
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It is time for a revolutionary act. We take out all the stars and every reviewer should rate the album again. Secondly new album can be reviewed after tehir release but can be rated at least a half year after their release. REVOLUTION!
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Posted By: Bilek
Date Posted: August 12 2005 at 11:51
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Top albums cannot be limited to 5... There are far more "essential" albums, in every sense of the word... As for a quick top 10, I may list: In the Court of the Crimson King As I said, it depends on many factors, and both the bands, and the albums may vary from time to time. For me, there can be a top 100 list, for instance, and absolutely different from progarchives list (free from "most" prog-metal and neo-prog s**t, that is to say!) ------------- Listen to Turkish psych/prog; you won't regret: Baris Manco,Erkin Koray,Cem Karaca,Mogollar,3 Hürel,Selda,Edip Akbayram,Fikret Kizilok,Ersen (and Dadaslar) (but stick with the '70's, and 'early 80's!) |
Posted By: bertburt
Date Posted: August 12 2005 at 12:05
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I think many ratings here get too subjective. Obviously subjectivity drives one's opinions, but perhaps one may go over the top in this fashion. It's gotten to the point that I pass over reviews (usually) that have five stars. A few examples of my own subjective faults:
When Misplaced Childhood came out, I was hugely emotionally attached to it since it somewhat mirrored what was going on with myself at the time. It's the only cassette I played for a few months. I was extolling its virtues to everyone within earshot, only to have odd glances returned to me. Hearing it many years later with my head in a different place, it seems to be nothing special to me at all anymore. Back then, all the rough spots in the recording were obscured by my emotional response to the lyrics. The entire theme seems somewhat silly to me now.
The first prog album I owned was Nursery Cryme. It opened the door to this genre. Because of this, I've always loved this album, even though it has its rough moments and the production leaves a lot to be desired. To give it a five star rating would be misleading to others since I have an affinity to it mainly because of timing, but my urge would still be to overrate it. Gentle Giant's Octopus. The only album at present I would give five stars to. I was introduced to this way back when I was looking for some challenging music. This fit the bill and then some. This to me is perfection. That being said, I can understand why some would not find it appealing at all, and a five star review might not be true to its worth (but I still think it's perfect
I guess what I'm trying to say is that an equal amount of subjectivity and objectivity should be employed. Unfortunately, many reviews don't seem to have much objectivity at all. To me, an example of a fantastic review was done by BiGi about a month ago for A Trick of the Tail. Opinion strongly supported by fact. Just reading that review caused me to recognize great elements that I hadn't considered before. And this is an album I've heard hundreds of times. Every subjective comment is supported by why the song works, why certain moments are so beautiful, etc.
Anyway my two cents worth.... |
).Posted By: Eetu Pellonpaa
Date Posted: August 12 2005 at 12:19
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I'll give fivers for: ANEKDOTEN "From Within" and "Gravity" BILL BRUFORD, EDDIE GOMES and RALPH TOWNER "If Summer Had It's Ghosts" HAWKWIND "Space Ritual" KING CRIMSON "The Night Watch" RUSH "Exit...Stage Left" THE SPACIOUS MIND "Cosmic Minds at Play" ... Ok, CtTE also.
"Mama's little rater" |
Posted By: OT Räihälä
Date Posted: August 12 2005 at 13:55
This is a bit silly topic, because it is always a question of opinions
and tastes only and they vary from time to time. For me, a five star
album is something that I wouldn't want to live without... and that may
change, too...  Of the albums that I have listened frequently enough, I would give five stars to: Gentle Giant: Free Hand Yes: Close To The Edge Gentle Giant: Acquiring The Taste Stravinsky: Rite Of Spring (Best versions are by Ozawa, Knussen and Salonen) Szymanowski: 1st Violin Concerto (BBC SO/Mordkovich/Sinaiski come to mind) I can't think of many other records that would give me as much pleasure as those do. |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: August 12 2005 at 14:04
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best "Rite of Spring" version is by Leonard Bernstein and the Israel Philharmonic Orchestra, in my opinion. there are a lot of faster versions, but none is that powerful. Bernstein really understood Stravinsky ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: August 12 2005 at 14:05
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I love Bernstein - West Side Story is amazing, musically. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa/aotm-2025-1/vote" rel="nofollow - 2025 Monthly Release Poll Listened to:
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Posted By: OT Räihälä
Date Posted: August 12 2005 at 14:14
Even if I wouldn't say definitely the best, you could without hesitation add Bernstein to my list. I saw a TV documentary in the 80's of him rehearsing a youth orchestra with the Rite, and it was just hilarious. He knew the piece so inside out, and could lead every single musician by hand. Simply fantastic, end of. |
Posted By: Dragon Phoenix
Date Posted: August 12 2005 at 14:38
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For me a five star album is one that if I somehow lost it, I would
immediately replace it again. Essential to my collection. No way that I
could limit that to five.
------------- Blog this: http://artrock2006.blogspot.com |
Posted By: TURK182!
Date Posted: August 12 2005 at 14:41
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I totally agree with you!!!! ------------- "A Flower!!!" "If you go down to Willow farm, you look for Butterflies..." |
Posted By: Under
Date Posted: August 12 2005 at 14:53
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OK, so no revolution. Hmm, it was a try. Subjectivity is the weak spot in every review, but on the other hand it is what makes a review personal and interesting to read. But the only album that keep coming around is Close to the Edge of Yes.
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Posted By: Logos
Date Posted: August 12 2005 at 15:03
| CttE is DENIFITELY a 5-star album. As are Selling England by the Pound and Foxtrot as well, and let's not forget Red. I just consider these albums to be pure masterpieces in every sense of the word; the quality of musicianship and composition is of the best possible caliber, and their influence on prog music is immense. |
Posted By: Tiresias
Date Posted: August 12 2005 at 16:10
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My opinion on this is that the albums should be rated on quality, not essentiality (?). This way, people don't look upon these ratings as "you need to have this/that"... however true it may be. It seems like nearly every band has a 5 star album... instead of cheapening the state of a 5 star (relatively speaking of course), I feel we could try to add an Honors rating system to any fiver, so that you have 5 normal stars for any exceptional album, and five gold stars for a masterpiece. However, ratings for these albums (fives only) could only be submitted by impartial, fair reviewers (i.e. Gatot, Maani, ProgLucky, mailto:M@X - M@X , various others who have proved their credibility and fairness.) Also, a 2/3 majority of this board must vote this album in by nomination from 25 members of the forum. This way, we can eliminate fanboyism, ratings sabotage, and all the albums we consider masterpieces would be equally represented. And if your favorite obscure, yet amazing album doesn't get in, chill out! Your favorite still has a stellar five star rating. Spread it around some and maybe it'll get done next year. Yes, this will happen yearly, like elections. I would like to see that the admins and board don't have to spend every day negotiating with lobbyists from the CTTE foundation (like it won't be first in line). ------------- Wh'ghal ng'fth mglw'y Ry'leh, Cthulhu fhtagn... 
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: August 12 2005 at 16:20
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa/aotm-2025-1/vote" rel="nofollow - 2025 Monthly Release Poll Listened to:
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Posted By: DracoMordag
Date Posted: August 12 2005 at 16:45
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In the Court of the Crimson King (the beginning...) Close to the Edge (the spreading) Dark Side of the Moon (the mass marketing) Scenes from a Memory (that which remains) those 4 albums are pretty essential. To define what I mean by essential, I mean that if someone asked "what is prog?" and wanted a non-verbal answer, I would play these 4 albums for them. There are quite a few others that I would use to define the genre (aka, are essential to the genre) but those are the 4 that come to mind for me. |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: August 12 2005 at 16:56
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ELP - Brain Salad Surgery Genesis - Foxtrot Yes - Close To The Edge Rush - Moving Pictures Muse - Absolution |
Posted By: Pseud0
Date Posted: August 12 2005 at 17:08
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rush - moving pictures yes - close to the edge opeth - still life comus - first uterrance camel - mirage |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: August 12 2005 at 17:16
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa/aotm-2025-1/vote" rel="nofollow - 2025 Monthly Release Poll Listened to:
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Posted By: Pseud0
Date Posted: August 12 2005 at 17:17
ah yes forgot those  fantastic |
Posted By: transend
Date Posted: August 12 2005 at 17:21
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The previous post says it ALL to me... Of all those CDs I would only rate CTTE as a 5 star, I would not give any of the others above 3. So there you have it...WE ALL HAVE DIFFERENT TASTES, therefore, I see 'Paris' by supertramp as a 5 star CD, othere will only give it 2...with the amount of reviewers here, I fail to understand why people are upset by the amount of FIVE STAR reviews, we ALL think of a 'essential masterpiece' in a totally different way... Surprised theres not more really... |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: August 12 2005 at 17:26
Have you really listened extensively to Terria, Remedy Lane, Shaming of the True or Hydrophonia? ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa/aotm-2025-1/vote" rel="nofollow - 2025 Monthly Release Poll Listened to:
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Posted By: transend
Date Posted: August 12 2005 at 17:29
| Ina word...yes! Cannot stand 'Terria', sold 'Shaming of the true' and found 'Remedy lane' be be OK. 'Hydrophonia' is my fave of the four, cna't go wrong really with Mr. Stolt. |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: August 12 2005 at 17:31
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we saw that same documentary a few years ago. it was fantastic. Bernstein was a great teacher of music ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: August 12 2005 at 17:31
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Well, at least economically that wasn't a wise decision. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa/aotm-2025-1/vote" rel="nofollow - 2025 Monthly Release Poll Listened to:
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Posted By: transend
Date Posted: August 12 2005 at 17:40
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Mike, that is my whole point thought really! WE ALL like DIFFERENT things, one persons masterpiece is another persons 'average album' or even something somebody else hates! |
Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: August 12 2005 at 17:42
To you, and not a huge number of others. IMHO |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: August 12 2005 at 17:46
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I don't have a problem with that. But my question (if you listened to these albums) was valid - I bet there are not many people on this forum that listened extensively to all the albums that I mentioned. I bet we all have at one point said something about an album without knowing it first hand - it happens, and it's a bad thing that must be avoided. I'm currently exploring Krautrock, Zeuhl and Neo-Prog - genres that never held much interest for me. I'll listen to the music, trying to really understand what some others find in it. Don't fear the unknown, embrace it! ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa/aotm-2025-1/vote" rel="nofollow - 2025 Monthly Release Poll Listened to:
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Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: August 12 2005 at 22:03
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Close to the Edge In the court of the Crimson King Foxtrot Thick as a brick The dark Side of the Moon ...thouse are it more or less...its very dificult to say just 5! ------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?" 
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Posted By: greenback
Date Posted: August 12 2005 at 23:38
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any true progger should have these ones:
------------- [HEADPINS - LINE OF FIRE: THE RECORD HAVING THE MOST POWERFUL GUITAR SOUND IN THE WHOLE HISTORY OF MUSIC!> |
Posted By: BigDee
Date Posted: August 13 2005 at 02:04
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Ok. I
couldn't resist posting a reply. I decided to go with what I
really listen to most often and here are the results: Genesis: Selling England by the Pound I think The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway had a bigger impact on the Prog music scene, but I don't play it that often. Rush: Exit...Stage Left This album kicks ass. Yes: Relayer Sure, Close to the Edge has Bill and there is lots of atmospheric stuff and terrific time changes, but Relayer has more emotion and it is a spectacular intro to Patrick Moraz (who incidentally does not get the props he deserves in the Prog world). King Crimson: Discipline KC meets the funk. They'll never do it again, but this effort was perfect. Many KC fans still don't get it. Spocks Beard: V The Great Nothing is sublime. Just for general principles, my "classical" selection is the minimalist masterpiece by Steve Reich "Music for 18 Musicians." Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread. I have found it most interesting and informative. I look forward to listening to your recommendations that I am not acquainted with. ------------- "War is not the answer, only love can conquer hate..." Marvin Gaye |
Posted By: Dragon Phoenix
Date Posted: August 13 2005 at 03:16
Wow, not only do I not have this one, but I don't even know who made it. I also don't see why many here find it necessary to post remarks like this. So I don't have an album you think is essential - that makes me not a true progger?  Aside: if a true progger is the type I also have encountered here, who thinks that only prog music is worth while, then I am proud to be a non-true progger. ------------- Blog this: http://artrock2006.blogspot.com |
Posted By: Dragon Phoenix
Date Posted: August 13 2005 at 03:54
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Btw, I found Free Hand way down the top100 list, by Gentle Giant. I
have Octopus, which I regard as a decent album but not one that
inspires me to seek out more of their works.
------------- Blog this: http://artrock2006.blogspot.com |
Posted By: The Hemulen
Date Posted: August 13 2005 at 04:21
Give it time... And get Free Hand whilst you're at it.  |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 13 2005 at 18:29
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To give an album 5 stars means that it is perfect in every way and every track is outstanding.....STOP......take a step back and let reality kick in. There is no perfect album in this world nor will there ever be......every album has its flaws of that there is no doubt. Dark Side of the Moon or Wish you Were Here are probably the closest to perfect......but not quite. Much as i love ELP there is not one album that really deserves more than 3 and a half stars. Sorry for the honesty...but i believe it's true....but then again what do i know? |
Posted By: Losendos
Date Posted: August 13 2005 at 18:45
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My essential kit bag would have 1 Foxtrot by Genesis 2 Dark Side of the Moon Pink Floyd 3 Tubular Bells Mike Oldfield 4 Brain Salad Surgery Emerson Lake and Palmer 5 Fragile Yes 6 Thick As a brick Jethro Tull 7 Days of future passed Moody Blues 8 Crime of the century Supertramp 9 Scenes from a memory metropolis part 2 Dream Theatre 10 Abbey Road Beatles I think if someone had those 10 albums they would know what prog was all about and could persue the style of prog that appeals to them ------------- How wonderful to be so profound |