cradle of filth

I won't continue picking your post apart there, Manny - but I have to dispute your definition of prog (when will two proggers ever agree on the "true" definition? );

If the early seventies originals define prog, then uniqueness and originality must count as a prog element. The historical backtracking of CoF may show earlier bands with similar styles - but it's the overall transendence I look for - just as the early prog bands transcended their roots.

I'd like to break it all down scientifically... but there's the one aspect of prog rock that eludes my finger every time I think I've got it, and to me, it's the big identifying factor. It's not virtuosity or complexity, it's not elaborate time changes or swathes of symponic grandeur - although all those things help.

It's a feeling - a kind of organic "vibe" that transcends the music - most prog rock bands only hit it occasionally. It's that perfect cross between jamming and through composed music that results in "perfect moments" (note that a "moment" is an undefined period of time, for the purposes of this discussion ).

I can only define it through examples, and the best I can think of is "Can-Utility and the Coastliners", although all the prog greats have far more than their fair share. Maybe that's why they're still the prog greats...

Napalm Death were progressive, particularly philosophically - but never hit the prog rock vibe - not once. The Beatles actually hit it a few (rare) times, but then so did Miles and Deep Purple. That doesn't make them prog rock bands, of course - but is reason enough to discuss them, as happens here from time to time!

From my definition, Radiohead definitely stay firmly put

But your definition may vary...