The Kansas thread

bityear wrote: I'm one of those who don't really respect rhem as much as I respect most other prog bands...Styx are another band which I don't enjoy. As I see it, Kansas (and Styx) are perdectly listenable, they have well-crafted songs, skilled musicians, all that, but their production and general songwriting is too list-orientated; they're COMMERCIAL prog! And, Supertramp are much better at that, actually....and, Kansas are one of those bands who can't make a down-to-earth song...they do those pompous, pretentious songs with pompous, pretentious lyrics...and to my ears, there's nothing good out of it! But, don't listen to me, I'm the minority!!

If you ever saw both of them live I don't think you would make that anology between Kansas and Styx (I saw both of them in the 70's). Say what you will it took 4 albums before Kansas became a headliner.   Considering Carry On was a last minute throw in on Leftoverature and Dust in the Wind evolved from a guitar warm up that Kerry Ligren used that his wife told him to put words to it I can't think that it was contrived. (I agree with you about Styx being that way). How can you even say that heartfelt spiritual searching becomes pompous? These guys are as real as you would ever want to meet. (I have met three of them)  Whatever, you have your opinion I have mine.

Garion81 said:

But, don't listen to me, I'm the minority!!

No Garion, every opinion must be listened because that's why we are here, to learn other persons point of view, I wouldn't be part of a forum where someone says Kansas is great and 384 posts answer Yes they are great!

That's a fan club, for people who thinks their favorite artist is someone who sits at the right hand of God and composes music for the angels, we're here to explore.

And you must be used as we are to be minority in the world, because prog' has never been exactly massive.

This doesn't mean we can't disagree, because I strongly do.

I'm one of those who don't really respect rhem as much as I respect most other prog bands...Styx are another band which I don't enjoy. As I see it, Kansas (and Styx) are perdectly listenable, they have well-crafted songs, skilled musicians, all that, but their production and general songwriting is too list-orientated; they're COMMERCIAL prog! !

One of the problems with Kansas is their proximity with Styx and parallelism between their careers, not musically but they were close in many aspects:

1.- Both are from USA: In the late 70's USA prog' was seen as second class, way behind the UK, England was not ready to accept USA was about to reach maturity in the progressive genre while the British Prog' was getting weaker each year.

2.- Both bands released their most popular albums in 1977 (The Grand Illusion and Point of Know Return) but while Kansas only had one hit single "Dust in the Wind" which was different to their normal aggressive style and probably one of their weakest tracks, Styx had three, "Come Sail Away", "Fooling Yourself" and Miss America" which were the highest points in the album.

3.- Both bands played mega concerts, but Styx was an AOR or Arena band and Kansas was a progressive Rock band that was also popular, mostly because USA are more addicted to the concerts than British.

4.- Both bands started in the early 70's playing serious progressive rock but while Styx became much more commercial after three releases, Kansas kept their level all along the decade.

That parallelism between the career of both bands affected Kansas who carried the stigma of being an AOE band as Styx even when this was absolutely false.

[quote] And, Supertramp are much better at that, actually....and, Kansas are one of those bands who can't make a down-to-earth song...they do those pompous, pretentious songs with pompous, pretentious lyrics...and to my ears, there's nothing good out of it! /[uote]

Please, Supertramp is far from being a prog’ band, IMO they are a good band that released 5 or 6 progressive tracks, but mostly is a POP/Arena/Soft Rock band, I enjoy their music but they’re definitely not a progressive band.

And about Kansas being pompous and pretentious, yes they are, but aren’t all the prog’ bands pompous and pretentious in different degrees? Just listen ELP, Rick Wakeman, Magenta, Pink Floyd are even more pompous and pretentious, but we love their music.

Won't answer the point that Kansas has nothing good to your ears, because that's personal taste and you're entitled to it, but to my ears the band has at least 20 essebtial songs.

Progressive Rock is pretentious and thanks God for that,

Iván

Bityear said:

I liked both Masque and Point Of Know Return a whole lot until I got my first Gentle Giant and ELP records

Gentle Giant is an excellent band and ELP one of my favotites, but it's a paradox to affirm Kansas was TOO pompous or PRETENTIOUS and place ELP as an example of the opposite.

Please, Greg Lake's Ego is only smaller than Keith Emerson's and Rick Wakeman's, those three guys sure are pretentious and as you say that's good,  When talking about pompous music there's a preferential place for "Pictures at an Exhibition", "Fanfare for the Common Man" and "Piano Concerto N° 1", as the highest examples of pompous music. But I love all those songs and albums.

Bityear said:

They don't rock as much as Deep Purple while they aren't as interesting or groundbreaking as the major UK prog bands...and, actually, I find their music totally NON-groundbreaking, other than perhaps the first albums, when that violin thing still was quite new.

Of course they don't rock as Deep Purple or Led Zeppelin, because that's not their style, Kansas is mainly Prog' with some hard rock influence. And about the violin, it always sounded fresh to me, Kansas is the only progressive rock band that bases all their sound in a mixture of violin and keyboards, that's what makes them unique, thanks to the great talent of Robbie Seindhart.

I don't know if they are as interesting as any UK prog' band, I believe they are, but that's a matter of personal taste.

Bityear said:[quote]That's why I like Spock's Beard and A.C.T. so much; they're also blending pop and prog, but they make it without compromises or any intent of selling 5 million copies of their records.[quote]

Good point, but we must make clear that Point of Know Return was a high selling album 90% because of "Dust in the Wind", take that song away and you'll have a strong but mysterious "Point of Know Return" (The Song), the ultra weird "Portrait", a couple of hard rock oriented songs as "Paradox" and "The Spider" plus some correct Progressive tracks, surely not a top 100 album.

Again, I absolutely understand and respect your point of view, many people I know have similar opinions, but I still believe Kansas is one on their kind and the best USA prog' band.

Iván

Garion81 wrote:   The cool thing about the two Proto-Kaw albums is that all of the songs were written pre 1974.

Actually, 5 of the songs on BBA were penned during the recent recording. Still a great accomplishment. When listening to the disc, I was reminded of Yes' Magnification. Something about the recording technics or the energy in the studio gave me similar feelings, wierd.... maybe it's the coffee?

So, I guess that Kansas became an underrated band to progressive music due some disgusting albums, and not due some radio hits listened every day, like Dust In The Wind (beautiful song, BTW).

Valid point Marcelo, but Kansas was considered AOR  or Arena Rock even before the IMHO terrible Vinyl Confessions.

People always placed Kansas with Styx, Journey and Boston in the same sack.

Also remember that the worst Kansas album is not as bad as Invissible Touch, In The Hot Seat or Big Generator and neither Genesis, Yes or ELP are underrated.

Iván

Kansas - Song For America, Leftoverture, and Point of Know Return are my faves.

Peter Rideout wrote:  I really only know them from the radio (I was a British/Italian/German-only "progsnob" in the band's heyday), but I think that "Dust in the Wind" is a very beautiful song! Lovely violin!

Peter

Next month their first two albums are being released and remastered. You should check them out.

Peter Rideout wrote: ^ Perhaps I will, Garion, thanks! Which of the two do you prefer?

I like them both Peter, the first is a  good mix of everything the band would do in the future. Some straight ahead rockers like Can I tell You and Bringing it Back to a nice ballad called Loney Wind to some really great prog tunes like Journey from Mariabron, Apercu even an Anthem number called Death of Mother Nature Suite.

The second has only 6 songs but some of them are the most memorable they did. The title track gave them instant cult status and Incumado and Lamplight symphony are great progressive songs. They also have a couple of rockers in Down the Road and The Devil Game and a blues number called Lonley Street.   

They had no hits or radio airplay off either of these albums here in the states.

I don't think you could go wrong either way. ( I am a really big help) The thing with Kansas is I will listen to one and say it is my favorite then after a while listen to another one and say no thats my favorite.  (I Find that is true with most of the bands I like)

You might want to start with a remastered album already in relase called Leftoverture (it has the song Carry on my Wayward son). Most Kansas fans beleive that is their best.

They also are releasing a box set sometime this summer that will have songs from every album and a CD with live performacnces, TV apperances and other intersting stuff. Write back and let me know what you Choose!

Well, been a while since this thread was updated.  Both of the remastered albums are available which means that the first 5 have been remastered. The two latest are the two oldest The self titled Kansas and Song For America. Both of these sound remarkably better after the remix.  Amzaing really.  The first thing that comes to mind is how good their bass player was (Dave Hope) and that you can actually hear him.  The digital mastering brings a seperation to distinguish much more clearly between instruments and the clarity gives a much better impression of the talent of each of the players.  The Kansas CD has a bounus track of a ten minute live version of Bring it Back.  When I stuck that on the surround sound unit the organ just circled the room during the intro.  Pretty damn cool.  The SFA disk bounus tracks are ok THe first is the single version of SFA which makes it sound like the CD is skipping.  THe second is a pretty powerful live version of Down the road. 

The next cool thing released this summer is a two disk and DVD set called Sail On. It is on Sony but the cool thing SONY did being the 30th anniversary was to get permission to put a song from every album (Studio and 1 Live) Kansas has done. I dont have enough time to tell you about it but here is the link to news page on the offical site:

 http://kansasband.com/currentnews.html

I can tell you it is a great package and the DVD is quite nice.  They have three songs live that Kansas did on an American tv program call Don Kirshner's Rock Concert. The show was shot after they recorded their first album but before it's release. So you really get the band at it's begining. I am telling you anyone who says they were not a progressive band (or art rock as we said back then) really needs to check out the dvd for the first 6 songs listed. There is also an easter egg for a bonus live performance. 

Anyway thats all I have.  Really liked the package.

Early Kansas is very good, especially before 2 for the show! Their best one is the first album. Violin and hard rock! Elaborated compositions. Styx is bland comperd to them. Have you notice that Kansas is one of the most anti-depressing band in  prog music. After Happy the man, obviously, I think they were the best American prog band in the 70's.