They were the American prog band of their time and are as big an influence in current neo-prog as Genesis or Yes.

So why is it that they get so little respect today?  Has their music not stood the test of time for all of us?  Or have too many of us just heard "Dust In The Wind" too many times on the radio in the Eighties?

I would propose that Kansas recorded at least three albums that were as (not more, but as) important in the history of progressive rock as anything anyone else recorded.

(now where did I put my flame retardant underwear?)

I'm with you on this one Pal   I adored Kansas and not just their few accessalbe songs like Play the Game Tonight and Wayward Son, I bought the whole package but I love long elaborate, complex songs

Excellent Point!

Caio

Song for America was great too !

What a great band !

By the way if anyone is interested they did make a new album a couple years ago. Nothing special but it wasn't bad. I'd say 3 1/2 stars. 

Caio

dude wrote: semismart, What was the album called?

Kansas' last original studio album is "Somewhere To Elsewhere" from 2000.  Before that was 1995's "Freaks Of Nature".

I'd recommend "Somewhere" without much reservation.  It's not quite up to "Leftoverture", but it's pretty darned good.

I liked "Freaks" as well, but it might be a "fans and collectors only" buy.  I'm too big a fan of the band and my ear might be prejudiced in their favor.

Gonghobbit wrote: Off to see Kansas tomorrow night in Trenton, should be fun.

Sweet!

Be sure and give us a rundown on how it goes.

richardh wrote: I love 'Death Of Mother Nature Suite' and 'Dust In The Wind' but Kansas were never really 'heavy' or interesting enough for my taste.Sorry,but I would put them in the second league of prog bands in the seventies compared to 'first division' acts like ELP,Genesis,Yes etc.

We all have our opinions here is mine:

Having seen all of the above groups multiple times in the 70's I totally disagree with your assesment.  They were all great and I put none above the other. Kansas kicked ass like ELP, they were subtle like Genesis and fun live like Jethro Tull. Don't know how much more you could ask for. Maybe becasuse they didn't create album side songs makes you think that way but their songs (especially kerry livgrens) are like soundtracks.  The lyrics are great, harmonies are great. No they weren't quite the instrumentalists as Emerson, Banks ect but I looked at the whole sound they produced.

I believe Kansas is one of the most underrated bands in history and Dust in the Wind is probably responsible of this, because is their best known track and people identify this song with their whole career, which is unfair.

Every studio album up to "Point of Know Return" has at least two masterpieces and almost no fillers. Kansas is probably the band that mixed symphonic prog' and hard rock with best results.

Love their music until the Elephante lineup.

Iván

HI, THISIS CÉSAR INCA.

I agree with my compatriot Iván 100 %.

Post-PoKR gems: On the Other Side & Angels Have Fallen (Monolith), No One Togetehr, Don't Open Your Eyes & back Door (Audio-Visions), Windows & Chasing Shadows (Vinyl Confessions), Musicatto & Taking In the View (Power), Rainmaker (In the Spirit of Things)

For those of you interested:

 Kansas is celibrating their 30 year anniversary with a 2 cd box set, remastered Title album and Song For America each with unreleased tracks.  The box set will contain a DVD that has interviews, music videos and live footage from the early days.

bityear wrote: I'm one of those who don't really respect rhem as much as I respect most other prog bands...Styx are another band which I don't enjoy. As I see it, Kansas (and Styx) are perdectly listenable, they have well-crafted songs, skilled musicians, all that, but their production and general songwriting is too list-orientated; they're COMMERCIAL prog! And, Supertramp are much better at that, actually....and, Kansas are one of those bands who can't make a down-to-earth song...they do those pompous, pretentious songs with pompous, pretentious lyrics...and to my ears, there's nothing good out of it! But, don't listen to me, I'm the minority!!

If you ever saw both of them live I don't think you would make that anology between Kansas and Styx (I saw both of them in the 70's). Say what you will it took 4 albums before Kansas became a headliner.   Considering Carry On was a last minute throw in on Leftoverature and Dust in the Wind evolved from a guitar warm up that Kerry Ligren used that his wife told him to put words to it I can't think that it was contrived. (I agree with you about Styx being that way). How can you even say that heartfelt spiritual searching becomes pompous? These guys are as real as you would ever want to meet. (I have met three of them)  Whatever, you have your opinion I have mine.

danbo wrote: For fans of Kansas; Kerry Livgren ressurrected the original Kansas, Proto-Kaw (Tranlates as Pre-Kansas). The new album Before Became After was just released and has some fine moments. Kansas fans would be happy with the mature production and awesome technical abilities of the band members. Sorry, no violin.

No violin but some flute and sax.  It is an interesting mix congering up images of early KC and Genesis along with bits that you might hear in later Kansas songs.  The cool thing about the two Proto-Kaw albums is that all of the songs were written pre 1974.

Garion81 said:

But, don't listen to me, I'm the minority!!

No Garion, every opinion must be listened because that's why we are here, to learn other persons point of view, I wouldn't be part of a forum where someone says Kansas is great and 384 posts answer Yes they are great!

That's a fan club, for people who thinks their favorite artist is someone who sits at the right hand of God and composes music for the angels, we're here to explore.

And you must be used as we are to be minority in the world, because prog' has never been exactly massive.

This doesn't mean we can't disagree, because I strongly do.

I'm one of those who don't really respect rhem as much as I respect most other prog bands...Styx are another band which I don't enjoy. As I see it, Kansas (and Styx) are perdectly listenable, they have well-crafted songs, skilled musicians, all that, but their production and general songwriting is too list-orientated; they're COMMERCIAL prog! !

One of the problems with Kansas is their proximity with Styx and parallelism between their careers, not musically but they were close in many aspects:

1.- Both are from USA: In the late 70's USA prog' was seen as second class, way behind the UK, England was not ready to accept USA was about to reach maturity in the progressive genre while the British Prog' was getting weaker each year.

2.- Both bands released their most popular albums in 1977 (The Grand Illusion and Point of Know Return) but while Kansas only had one hit single "Dust in the Wind" which was different to their normal aggressive style and probably one of their weakest tracks, Styx had three, "Come Sail Away", "Fooling Yourself" and Miss America" which were the highest points in the album.

3.- Both bands played mega concerts, but Styx was an AOR or Arena band and Kansas was a progressive Rock band that was also popular, mostly because USA are more addicted to the concerts than British.

4.- Both bands started in the early 70's playing serious progressive rock but while Styx became much more commercial after three releases, Kansas kept their level all along the decade.

That parallelism between the career of both bands affected Kansas who carried the stigma of being an AOE band as Styx even when this was absolutely false.

[quote] And, Supertramp are much better at that, actually....and, Kansas are one of those bands who can't make a down-to-earth song...they do those pompous, pretentious songs with pompous, pretentious lyrics...and to my ears, there's nothing good out of it! /[uote]

Please, Supertramp is far from being a prog’ band, IMO they are a good band that released 5 or 6 progressive tracks, but mostly is a POP/Arena/Soft Rock band, I enjoy their music but they’re definitely not a progressive band.

And about Kansas being pompous and pretentious, yes they are, but aren’t all the prog’ bands pompous and pretentious in different degrees? Just listen ELP, Rick Wakeman, Magenta, Pink Floyd are even more pompous and pretentious, but we love their music.

Won't answer the point that Kansas has nothing good to your ears, because that's personal taste and you're entitled to it, but to my ears the band has at least 20 essebtial songs.

Progressive Rock is pretentious and thanks God for that,

Iván

Bityear said:

I liked both Masque and Point Of Know Return a whole lot until I got my first Gentle Giant and ELP records

Gentle Giant is an excellent band and ELP one of my favotites, but it's a paradox to affirm Kansas was TOO pompous or PRETENTIOUS and place ELP as an example of the opposite.

Please, Greg Lake's Ego is only smaller than Keith Emerson's and Rick Wakeman's, those three guys sure are pretentious and as you say that's good,  When talking about pompous music there's a preferential place for "Pictures at an Exhibition", "Fanfare for the Common Man" and "Piano Concerto N° 1", as the highest examples of pompous music. But I love all those songs and albums.

Bityear said:

They don't rock as much as Deep Purple while they aren't as interesting or groundbreaking as the major UK prog bands...and, actually, I find their music totally NON-groundbreaking, other than perhaps the first albums, when that violin thing still was quite new.

Of course they don't rock as Deep Purple or Led Zeppelin, because that's not their style, Kansas is mainly Prog' with some hard rock influence. And about the violin, it always sounded fresh to me, Kansas is the only progressive rock band that bases all their sound in a mixture of violin and keyboards, that's what makes them unique, thanks to the great talent of Robbie Seindhart.

I don't know if they are as interesting as any UK prog' band, I believe they are, but that's a matter of personal taste.

Bityear said:[quote]That's why I like Spock's Beard and A.C.T. so much; they're also blending pop and prog, but they make it without compromises or any intent of selling 5 million copies of their records.[quote]

Good point, but we must make clear that Point of Know Return was a high selling album 90% because of "Dust in the Wind", take that song away and you'll have a strong but mysterious "Point of Know Return" (The Song), the ultra weird "Portrait", a couple of hard rock oriented songs as "Paradox" and "The Spider" plus some correct Progressive tracks, surely not a top 100 album.

Again, I absolutely understand and respect your point of view, many people I know have similar opinions, but I still believe Kansas is one on their kind and the best USA prog' band.

Iván

Again, I absolutely understand and respect your point of view, many people I know have similar opinions, but I still believe Kansas is one on their kind and the best USA prog' band.

Iván

[/QUOTE]

Ivan,

That was a great assement.  I don't know maybe growing up when the music was released made a difference and being actually able to see these people in their prime forms the basis for my opinions.  Kansas has long been lumped into the Styx, Journey, Boston camp and I think they are so much different than those bands.  People who would listen to them thinking they were another Journey were sadley disappointed because the albums were not full of top 40 music. In the State,s Carry On my Wayward Son and Dust in the Wind were huge hits and still get major airplay on "classic" rock stations. The funny thing is, as I stated in an earlier post, is that they were really accidents more than crafted songs to inspire airplay. The only song that they wrote to ispire airplay was "Takes a Womans Love" off of Masque and it didn't work.  Kansas got a lot of pressure from CBS but for the most part stayed true to playing music that they enjoyed playing.  There is also a great amount of difference in Kerry Livgrens writing vs. Steve Walsh's.  Anyway, I enjoyed all the posts in this forum.  Take Care  

Garion81 wrote:   The cool thing about the two Proto-Kaw albums is that all of the songs were written pre 1974.

Actually, 5 of the songs on BBA were penned during the recent recording. Still a great accomplishment. When listening to the disc, I was reminded of Yes' Magnification. Something about the recording technics or the energy in the studio gave me similar feelings, wierd.... maybe it's the coffee?

So, I guess that Kansas became an underrated band to progressive music due some disgusting albums, and not due some radio hits listened every day, like Dust In The Wind (beautiful song, BTW).

Valid point Marcelo, but Kansas was considered AOR  or Arena Rock even before the IMHO terrible Vinyl Confessions.

People always placed Kansas with Styx, Journey and Boston in the same sack.

Also remember that the worst Kansas album is not as bad as Invissible Touch, In The Hot Seat or Big Generator and neither Genesis, Yes or ELP are underrated.

Iván

Also remember that the worst Kansas album is not as bad as Invissible Touch, In The Hot Seat or Big Generator and neither Genesis, Yes or ELP are underrated.

Iván

It's true! Everything is forgiven to the big idols 

Kansas - Song For America, Leftoverture, and Point of Know Return are my faves.

Peter Rideout wrote:  I really only know them from the radio (I was a British/Italian/German-only "progsnob" in the band's heyday), but I think that "Dust in the Wind" is a very beautiful song! Lovely violin!

Peter

Next month their first two albums are being released and remastered. You should check them out.

^ Perhaps I will, Garion, thanks!

Which of the two do you prefer?

Peter Rideout wrote: ^ Perhaps I will, Garion, thanks! Which of the two do you prefer?

I like them both Peter, the first is a  good mix of everything the band would do in the future. Some straight ahead rockers like Can I tell You and Bringing it Back to a nice ballad called Loney Wind to some really great prog tunes like Journey from Mariabron, Apercu even an Anthem number called Death of Mother Nature Suite.

The second has only 6 songs but some of them are the most memorable they did. The title track gave them instant cult status and Incumado and Lamplight symphony are great progressive songs. They also have a couple of rockers in Down the Road and The Devil Game and a blues number called Lonley Street.   

They had no hits or radio airplay off either of these albums here in the states.

I don't think you could go wrong either way. ( I am a really big help) The thing with Kansas is I will listen to one and say it is my favorite then after a while listen to another one and say no thats my favorite.  (I Find that is true with most of the bands I like)

You might want to start with a remastered album already in relase called Leftoverture (it has the song Carry on my Wayward son). Most Kansas fans beleive that is their best.

They also are releasing a box set sometime this summer that will have songs from every album and a CD with live performacnces, TV apperances and other intersting stuff. Write back and let me know what you Choose!

 ^ Will do, Garion! Thanks again!

  From your description, the 2nd CD sounds the most interesting so far -- perhaps I'll start there....

Well, been a while since this thread was updated.  Both of the remastered albums are available which means that the first 5 have been remastered. The two latest are the two oldest The self titled Kansas and Song For America. Both of these sound remarkably better after the remix.  Amzaing really.  The first thing that comes to mind is how good their bass player was (Dave Hope) and that you can actually hear him.  The digital mastering brings a seperation to distinguish much more clearly between instruments and the clarity gives a much better impression of the talent of each of the players.  The Kansas CD has a bounus track of a ten minute live version of Bring it Back.  When I stuck that on the surround sound unit the organ just circled the room during the intro.  Pretty damn cool.  The SFA disk bounus tracks are ok THe first is the single version of SFA which makes it sound like the CD is skipping.  THe second is a pretty powerful live version of Down the road. 

The next cool thing released this summer is a two disk and DVD set called Sail On. It is on Sony but the cool thing SONY did being the 30th anniversary was to get permission to put a song from every album (Studio and 1 Live) Kansas has done. I dont have enough time to tell you about it but here is the link to news page on the offical site:

  http://kansasband.com/currentnews.html - http://kansasband.com/currentnews.html

I can tell you it is a great package and the DVD is quite nice.  They have three songs live that Kansas did on an American tv program call Don Kirshner's Rock Concert. The show was shot after they recorded their first album but before it's release. So you really get the band at it's begining. I am telling you anyone who says they were not a progressive band (or art rock as we said back then) really needs to check out the dvd for the first 6 songs listed. There is also an easter egg for a bonus live performance. 

Anyway thats all I have.  Really liked the package.

Early Kansas is very good, especially before 2 for the show! Their best one is the first album. Violin and hard rock! Elaborated compositions. Styx is bland comperd to them. Have you notice that Kansas is one of the most anti-depressing band in  prog music. After Happy the man, obviously, I think they were the best American prog band in the 70's.

I have only 1 of their cd's...the 1st self titled one remastered. I bought it about 1 month ago and I must say I didn't like too much at 1st but it grew on me. Kind of like anything prog. Must listen several times to really appreciate. The 1st three songs are unimpressive(especially that 3rd piece....pop trash that I could'vd done without)...after that the songs are all great prog. I will definately be buying their next 3-4 albums

My only one complaint is their lyrics are a bit weak...Especially the Mother Nature Suite.

Gdub411 wrote:

The 1st three songs are unimpressive(especially that 3rd piece....pop trash that I could'vd done without)...after that the songs are all great prog

I really don't like "Can I Tell You? very much, but I disagree with you about Lonely Wind, of course it's a ballad, but a very powerful one, you have to listen the piano version of this track in "Two for the Show" to really understand what they wanted to do.

I agree with you about the rest of the songs, especially Journey to Mariabronn which became a classic still played in all their concerts, also Belexes is a song that grew on me, Phil Ehart (The most underrated drummer in history) does an excellent job, the guy is really out of this world.

Iván

ivan_2068 wrote: Gdub411 wrote: The 1st three songs are unimpressive(especially that 3rd piece....pop trash that I could'vd done without)...after that the songs are all great prog I really don't like "Can I Tell You? bery much, but I disagree with you about Lonely Wind, of course it's a ballad, but a very powerful one, you have to listen the piano version of this track in "Two for the Show" to really understand what they wanted to do. I agree with you about the rest of the songs, especially Journey to Mariabronn which became a classic still played in all their concerts, also Belexes is a song that grew on me, Phil Ehart (The most underrated drummer in history) does an excellent job, the guy is really out of this world. Iván

The 1st song irritates me a little because of the repetitive lyrics. I think it would have been better if they would have said these lyrics twice...once in the beginning and once at the end would have sufficed with a long instrumental middle. The 2nd song is a little too bluesy for my tastes....My favorite is Journey to Mariabronn as well.....awesome tune!!!

I like 'Can I Tell You' as an effective opener, just that: somewhere in the middle it would have been a filler. I enjoy its country-based spirit with a GG-ish twist in the organ-violin duets.

'Bringing it Back' is a JJ Cale cover - I read that Kansas' remastered version includes a 9 minute live rendition of bringing... I bet it's interesting, maybe a very long set of alternate solos, or an extended drum solo...

Anyway, their debut album is good but not genius... the genius started to emerge clearly in their excellent 'Song for America': What an album!! Even the more commercial tracks are full of intrincate arrangements and fine performances. 'Down the Road' is not your simple whiskey bar tune, though it's structured as such: it's got a peculiar (not symphonic) complexity of its own.

Regards.

"...like Tony Banks! I'm of the opinion that Genesis only got worse after Gabriel quit and Banks got free to do what he wanted."

Like 'Mad Man Moon', 'One for the Vine', the final touches of 'Ripples' and 'Entangled', half the musical ideas of 'Eleventh Earl of Mar'. Even during the fivesome era, he did what he wanted with 'Stagnation', 'Seven Stones', 'The Lamia' (minus the lyrics) and' Firth of Fifth', half of the musical ideas of 'Salmacis' and more than a half for 'Get Em Out by Friday', not to mention his tremendous input to the instrumental sections of 'Supper's Ready'... and the rest of the band liked them all...

Banks wasn't all that bad... I think...

A little history about the first album. Kansas was signed by Don Kirshner anybody know who was?   He was the guy that created the Monkees.  So for all of you that say Kansas was too comercial I am sorry AMerica had no record companies like Charisma and Atlantic passed them by.  They got signed based on a 5 song demo that included Can I tell you and Lonley Wind.  The guy that wrote Journey to Mariabronn Apercu Belexis Death of Mother Nature, Kerry Livgren, had not yet joined the band.  When they showed up to record Wally Gold, a producer of pop music, was chosen to mix their album.  They were not even allowed to bring in their equipment except synths.  The master tape was not saved but recorded over by an all to cheap Kirshner and kudos to later producer Jeff Glixman for reproducing that first album so well from what they had.

gdub411 wrote: My only one complaint is their lyrics are a bit weak...Especially the Mother Nature Suite.

Ok I'll bite on this What do you consider strong lyrics?  DOMS was very relevant to what was going on in America the time it was written. As for Apercu (I think the bridge in there has perfect introspective lyrics), Journey to Maribronn, Song For America, Lamplight Syphony, Incomudru, Mysteries and Mayhem, The Pinnical, Child of Innocence, Carry On, The Wall, Miricales out of Nowhere etc.   In fact most of Kerry Livegrens lyrics from the first 7 albums was about a personal spirtual search.  Amazing how anyone could get that personal with his feelings like that in a public forum.  If you see something different I would really like to know what. 

Prog_Bassist wrote: Kansas Rule. And about Styx, I'm related to Lawrence Gowan, their new singer. On my mother's side. I actually dont really like Styx very much at all, but I think it's pretty cool that I'm related to one of them!

Hehe, I had the exact same situation with Anthrax...

Garion81 wrote: In fact most of Kerry Livegrens lyrics from the first 7 albums was about a personal spirtual search.  Amazing how anyone could get that personal with his feelings like that in a public forum.  If you see something different I would really like to know what.

I agree completely- I think it was clear in the lyrics that this was a man who was deeply spiritual, constantly questioning and investigating, and longing for a satisfying answer (very much like Peter Hammill, although the two couldn't have been more different in their approach, or their conclusions). I have to admit I was put off when the religious aspect became more obvious and less symbolic- he had been so good at metaphor and allegory. But by then the band's sound had changed enough to let the two of us go our separate ways anyway...

James Lee wrote: . I have to admit I was put off when the religious aspect became more obvious and less symbolic- he had been so good at metaphor and allegory. But by then the band's sound had changed enough to let the two of us go our separate ways anyway...

Yes, more obvious because for him he had found his answer. In his mind I am sure he had no need to be metaphotical any longer.  I don't find it too overwhelming and he still writes great music. Outside of one or two songs he is not preachy but more tries express his joy at what he has found. Check out Somewhere to Elsewhere by Kansas 2001 (there are three songs for sure that ressurect the old Kansas sound Icarus II, Myriad and Distant Vision), Soundtrack to Oddesy to the Minds Eye 1996?, Collectors Sediton 2000 (Solo Albums) and Proto-Kaw before became after.  The man is a composing machine.  Sometime soon (This year according to his web site) he is supposed to release this Cantata he has been writting since 1979. He thinks it is the best thing he has ever written.  I can't wait for that either.  

I have to admit I was put off when the religious aspect became more obvious and less symbolic- he had been so good at metaphor and allegory. But by then the band's sound had changed enough to let the two of us go our separate ways anyway...

A few months after Vinyl Confessions was relñeased, I was watching TV in Miami, while I was changing channels I saw Kerry Livegren and stopped there. It was the 700 Club with Pat Robertson (A program I would never normally see mostly because it's not about religion it's simply a business IMHO).

Well, Kerry was almost forced (with directed questions) to say that Kansas was evil, at first he refused to say that, but when he gained some confidence (or confused with the tendency of the questions) he said that Kansas was his worst experience, that his music was sad, depressing and negative but now he had found the Lord he was happy.

I have nothing about Religion, I'm also a religious man, but when somebody tries to make us believe every secular thing is bad, then I hate it because it reminds me of those who used to burn books.

Thanks God that Kerry saw the light and started to compose good music again, he understood you can be a reborn Christian and a great musician at the same time. If a skilful artist or professional wastes the talent God gave him, it's a sin, even if that man uses his time to pray.

Last week on a TV show I don't like very much (The King of the Hill), the father said to a Christian musician at Messiahfest "Playing that music you're not making religion better, you're making rock worst"

That's what Kansas did when tried to change into a Christian Rock Band.

Iván

Garion81 wrote: gdub411 wrote: My only one complaint is their lyrics are a bit weak...Especially the Mother Nature Suite.   Ok I'll bite on this What do you consider strong lyrics?  DOMS was very relevant to what was going on in America the time it was written. As for Apercu (I think the bridge in there has perfect introspective lyrics), Journey to Maribronn, Song For America, Lamplight Syphony, Incomudru, Mysteries and Mayhem, The Pinnical, Child of Innocence, Carry On, The Wall, Miricales out of Nowhere etc.   In fact most of Kerry Livegrens lyrics from the first 7 albums was about a personal spirtual search.  Amazing how anyone could get that personal with his feelings like that in a public forum.  If you see something different I would really like to know what.

I found the lyrics a little too contrived and a bit silly to be honest. It ruins the great music for me some. It seemed to me that he really wanted to write something important and ends up sounding way too preachy. I don't pretend to know this guy's backround and if you say it is him soulsearching...I'll trust your insight or knowledge on this matter.

Also I must add I call this music as Hick Progressive because he comes across a bit backwoodslike to me. I feel I am qualified to make a statement like this as I was raised in the backwoods of Wisconsin. Compared to the cultured and more sophisticated European bands they just don't measure up lyrically speaking.

Do not get me wrong....I like Kansas

gdub411 wrote: Also I must add I call this music as Hick Progressive because he comes across a bit backwoodslike to me. I feel I am qualified to make a statement like this as I was raised in the backwoods of Wisconsin. Compared to the cultured and more sophisticated European bands they just don't measure up lyrically speaking. Do not get me wrong....I like Kansas

Hick progressive- interesting term; I wish there were more bands like that. That's the main reason I compare Kansas to Jethro Tull (a UK hick progressive, if you follow me...I guess the Caravan end of Canterbury kinda makes them UK hick progressives too). Comes from the folk influence, and since our folk music is country, bluegrass, and blues that's what goes into the sound.

I'm probably the only person in the world that would like to hear a prog bluegrass band...

Just saw this thread (away form a couple of days at Rush in Glasgow) and have to applaud whoever started this thread. I absolutely love Kansas (from Kansas to Monolith) though I seem to be one of the few Europeans here who thinks they're cool - most of the posts have been from the Americas.

Funny, I was instroduced to them by a New Yorker (a mate of my older brother) around the time Monolith was released and got a bunch of cassettes with Leftoverture, Two For The Show and Monolith on and fell in love with the band.

Granted they're not pur prog but what constitutes 'pure prog'. Are they too melodic? Not fiddly enough in their playing?

The melodies are great, the playing is excellent, and the Keystone Cops chase bits in most of the long songs are great fun (just check 'em out if you don't believe me, Magnum Opus, Incomudro etc etc all contain a comedu chase scene!) 

From Journey From Mariabronn to Song For America, Closet Chronicles to Cheyenne Anthem, Icarus to Questions of My Childhood - they're all great.

The only caveat is the blatant evangelising on Monolith, it doesn't ruin the experience but certainly compromises it. Therefore after Monolith I lost 'em though I do believe that their reunion album Somewhere to Elsewhere has a couple of good tracks...

Other than that they rule. Top dungaree-wearing, fiddle playing, prog chaps!!

James Lee wrote: gdub411 wrote: Also I must add I call this music as Hick Progressive because he comes across a bit backwoodslike to me. I feel I am qualified to make a statement like this as I was raised in the backwoods of Wisconsin. Compared to the cultured and more sophisticated European bands they just don't measure up lyrically speaking. Do not get me wrong....I like Kansas Hick progressive- interesting term; I wish there were more bands like that. That's the main reason I compare Kansas to Jethro Tull (a UK hick progressive, if you follow me...I guess the Caravan end of Canterbury kinda makes them UK hick progressives too). Comes from the folk influence, and since our folk music is country, bluegrass, and blues that's what goes into the sound. I'm probably the only person in the world that would like to hear a prog bluegrass band...

James....I finally have figured you out. With permission I would love to share this with you but I do not want to offend you either and you might not take what I say too kindly. So what say you?

arcer wrote: In fact, forgot to mention, I currently have a personally burned 2CD best of set in my car CD changer at the moment - any band that can make me stretch a best of to 160mins can't be that bad!

Those are great thoughts. Here in the states in 1974-5 there was never a question about this band at all. They were the real deal whether it was progressive, rock, blues or ballads these guys could do it all. Maybe that it what it is about them that is great.  BTW Monolith Kerry had not yet converted so if it is preachy I don't know where that came from.  He converted in between that album and his solo album Seeds of Change(Which has two great songs with Ronnie James Dio doing vocals)  about a year or so after Monolith.

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    Okay let me try to explain this again. 1st...my knowledge of Kansas is their 1st album and their hits. 2nd...I plan on buying more of their albums so that should indicate to you that I do give them credit. 3rd..The lyrics you showed me are okay but I have written better.4th....taking 1 line without any of the surrounding lines to ELP(a pop song of theirs no less) isn't fair to them. Check out the incredible play on words with Karn Evil#9 and see how your song matches up. It doesn't!! Simple as that. 5th....compare any of their lyrics to the greats...Hammill, Fish or Gabriel....not even in the same stratisphere...I can safely say that without hearing any more of their albums. 6th..my biggest angst against them is that Death to Mother Nature suite....I find the lyrics REALLY cheesy. It took me a while to relisten to them again because of that song and the 1st 3 which I mentioned in this thread earlier..and for your information...i am glad I did!!!I have always preferred lyrics dealing with inner turmoil over social issues. That is just my taste.7th...I like dark/depressing lyrics and I just don't find Kansas very dark and depressing. Once again....just my tastes. I realize Gabriel wasn't depressing but I love his eccentricity

There is just something small missing from Kansas's lyrics and because of their social songs and their upbringing it rings Hick Progressive to my ears....albeit good Hick Progressive

   . That is just my taste.7th...I like dark/depressing lyrics and I just don't find Kansas very dark and depressing. Once again....just my tastes. I realize Gabriel wasn't depressing but I love his eccentricity

There is just something small missing from Kansas's lyrics and because of their social songs and their upbringing it rings Hick Progressive to my ears....albeit good Hick Progressive

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I understand what you are saying.  There was a time I felt I neede the darkness of things also.  Pete wrote some very dark stuff on Tresspass IMO.  It is funny You say they are too lighthearted I had one friend told me Kansas was too depressing for their tatste.  Whatever. :-) I am glad you enjoy them and didn't let that stop you from enjoying what you can.  They have been part of my life for thirty years and are as important to me as all of the groups you mentioned. One nice thing is they still tour almost every year too.

OK, I am doing everyone a favor who only wants to hear just the “prog” songs Kansas did.  I have made a list by album (Only Original Lineup) which songs would fit as the definition of “prog” I have seen here:

Album                                                             Songs

Kansas:                          Belexis, Journey To MariaBronn, Aprecu, Death of Mother Nature Suite       

Song For America:      Title Track, Lamplight Symphony, Imcamudro-Hymn to the Atman

Masque:                         Mysteries and Mayhem, The Pinnacle, All the World, Icarus

LeftOverature:             Miracles Out of Nowhere, Opus Insert, Cheyenne Anthem, Magnus Opus   

Point of Know Return:       Closet Chronicles, Nobodys Home, Helplessly Human

Monolith:                        On the Other Side, Away from you, Angels have Fallen, Glimpse of Home

Audio Visions:                   No One Together, Curtain of Iron

Somewhere to Elsewhere:  Icarus II, Myriad, Distant Vision  

If all you are looking for is this format this list should help you but I think you are missing out on so much more theat these guys have to offer.