Steve Howe (post-CTTE) is rubbish

Right, I've just about had enough of Steve Howe.   I used to really like Yes, but I cannot listen to them anymore because of Steve Howe's inane weedling.  I LOVE Close To The Edge, I LOVE Fragile, and I LOVE the Yes Album, but my all time favourite Yes album was always Going For The One.  Unfortunately I've started to get irritated by Howe's playing on it, and now I can barely listen to it without grinding my teeth and drumming my fingers in agitation. 

I knew things had started to go wrong on Topographic Oceans - gone were the delicate atmospheric touches, the ghostly sounds, the meaningful attack, the sheer gorgeous melody, and in their place came....inane practice sessions of relentless arpeggios and cramming notes a al Maria Carey on anti-depressants.  Then things, got really bad.  He started to peek through the layers of my second favourite Yes album, Relayer - already suffering from the lack of Wakeman, but beautifully balanced and pitched with no instruments really dominating - the Howe effect started to ruin it for me.  Utterly pointless fret runs replaced any melody, whilst the SOUND of his guitar is just bloody awful.  My First Guitar Amp.  Ear-melting shrill and totally at odds to the brilliant ambience created by Moraz and Squire.

THEN, oh God, I NEVER thought it could happen - I started in small doses, noticing his inanity on Going For The One - his guitar runs, his pointless overworked licks, his sheer audacity in standing outside the immense vision of the rest of the band.  His 'slide' contribution to the title track is ear-grating enough, but his doddering open to Turn Of The Century is contemptable.  Indeed, I'm convinced Jon Anderson just gets bored and comes in half way through it.  Listen to it, you'll see what I mean.  I think Parallels was actually Howe's composition, and listen to the solo in it.  Its utterly awful, bending fruitlessly out of tune without any discernible relation to his own backing.  Thank God he was curtailed for the epic Awaken.  Somebody take that volume pedal off him.

In short, I hope this is contentious as the recent topics have been a little glib, but Howe represents everything that is WRONG with prog guitarists. His contributions to CTTE and Fragile were perfect, but after this time, he got totally carried away with his own technique-driven weedling, and in the process, the greatness of subsequent Yes albums was vastly reduced.   

He should've spent a bit more time listening to Franco Mussida.....

I like his needless noodling, it's part of his appeal and style.
Technically he's probably one of the most gifted guitarists around.
The point you make is quite correct, but I see it the other way around.
Where most guitarists go for a more cohesive melodic sound.
Howe try's to create that same atmophere in a different way,
with more notes and more technical 'difficult' textures.

That may not applease all listeners, but I for one enjoy it.

 

I really like Relayer, but moreso for White.  But that's another post.  It can be tough at times to deal with his more techinical playing on some songs, espescially Gates. However, that Guitar line at the "Soon" portion of the song saves it.

alan_pfeifer wrote: I really like Relayer, but moreso for White.  But that's another post.  It can be tough at times to deal with his more techinical playing on some songs, espescially Gates. However, that Guitar line at the "Soon" portion of the song saves it.

Yes, White is immense - indeed, the whole band (bar Howe) are immense - its a great album.  Howe does have a couple of good moments on Relayer, like the one you mention, but his sound is still hellish.  Why is he so high up in the mix??  By the way, I think what 'saves' it are Moraz's keyboards and the beauty of Anderson's voice.

I think you need to consider the following... OPINION. whats yours is yours, it dosent make your word divine. i personally love howe's work and i'll continue to love it.

 

Fashionably contentious???  Well I admitted in my opening post that I hoped the thread would be contentious, but I honestly had no idea how to make it fashionable.  Is ripping Steve Howe up particularly 'in' at the moment, or have I stumbled upon a rich vein of form????

Clearly your definition of 'amazing' and 'awesome' are equatable to my definitions of 'overblown' and 'irrelevant', and I'm sure these would be reversible if I told you what music is currently 'fashionable' in my house at the moment. 

With regards to the Howe works you mention, yes I have heard them all except for the Turbulence album, and I await your review of it with grim intensity.  By the way, merely saying that certain songs/albums are 'awesome' and 'amazing' doesn't really convince me that I have made a horrible mistake, and should retract everything.  I have tried to explain (in admittedly poor metaphorical language) what it is that annoys me about Howe.  Perhaps you could try the same to explain to me why you LIKE his widdly-diddlying so much, particularly on these later works (given the theme of the thread....)

 

I can't agree with any of this.  Howe's uniqueness, and that of the entire band, is how these wildly talented and individualistic players come together and still create a whole that is greater than the sum of the parts - rather than a whole that is a mishmash of conflicting sonic egos.  I especially respect how Howe (sorry) stands out in the mix.  Where are the guitarists now who dare to take their playing and bring it to the fore where it can command and lead?  Frankly I'm tired of the mash potato sound where all the players are blended together on the puree setting.  Let's get some more adventure going in progressive music.  Isn't that what it's all about?

Litl wrote: I can't agree with any of this.  Howe's uniqueness, and that of the entire band, is how these wildly talented and individualistic players come together and still create a whole that is greater than the sum of the parts - rather than a whole that is a mishmash of conflicting sonic egos.  I especially respect how Howe (sorry) stands out in the mix.  Where are the guitarists now who dare to take their playing and bring it to the fore where it can command and lead?  Frankly I'm tired of the mash potato sound where all the players are blended together on the puree setting.  Let's get some more adventure going in progressive music.  Isn't that what it's all about?

A fair point indeed.  Guitar styles have changed over time, and the traditional guitar hero nowadays seems only to fit into the quasi-metal band, regurgitating Maiden & Metallica solos backwards so as not to get caught pinching ideas. 

Unfortunately, I never saw Howe's playing as 'leading' the band - rather it began (after CTTE) to ramble unabated, countering ANderson's work, and overwhelming Moraz/Wakeman's work so that the some total of the work was: a completed Yes album + some unexplained guitar acrobatics.  Yes + Howe. 

Yes, adventure and experiment   

Dont noodle aimlessly....

bluetailfly wrote: Well, Wrath, what I mean by "fashionably contentious" is that a lot of people post ludicruously idiotic polls about "worst" band, or "worst" singer and then list prog musicians who are talented and have done amazing work. And then a little war of insults follow, which is ridiculous. Your post seems to fall into that category somewhat, though I see you are at least somewhat articulate. The main problem with your post is that you say that everything since CTTE is rubbish. I mean, you could have said that his style has tended to a bit more meaningless meandering or some such, but to say that NOTHING he has done since this time reaches what he did before is a laughably inaccurate statement, especially coming from someone who states he liked Howe up to CTTE. I think the problem is the inane limitations of what constitutes for you a "good" guitar solo: Something that sets a target and "reaches" it, or whatever you're implying by your criticism of Howe. Look, every solo a guitarist does isn't a set piece that has to accomplish the same "emotional" work every time (clearly you're into some sort of "beginning - middle - end" type of guitar solo; and I am to, just not every time). Howe plays radically differently in a wide range of contexts, and to reduce his playing to all one sound really shows that the problem is more with your hang ups with what consitutes a "good" guitar solo than with the wide range of styles Howe incorporates. Now, I'll expand on a couple of my earlier comments. In my earlier post I was only trying to give a few highlights that completely undermine your admittedly contentious argument: For one, Howe's guitar work on "Machine Messiah" really pushed prog rock guitar into a place I really hadn't heard it go before. The torrential guitar that ends the piece is a masterpiece of evocative guitar work, no matter who's playing it. Dismiss it if you will, but I think you've missed out on a fantastic, highly evocative guitar moment. His acoustic work on "Turn of the Century" especially his solo is astonishing---and oddly it does seem to fit the solo style you seem to so fascistically advocate. Dismissing this work seems oddly contradictory, and I think it points up the possibility that you're really suffering from some other, more personal, problem with Howe's work. Well, there you have it. I could go on. It would be fun to go on. But I suppose it's time for you to weigh in and make fun of what I've written, so have a go at it.

I'm sorry Bluetailfly, the intention was not to make fun of people who like Howe and I apologise if I appeared a little ungracious.  I am, as you pointed out, a fan of Howe's work up to a point. 

However your summation that I have 'issues' with Howe is utterly precise - I'm 32 now, and as a growing teen in the 90s got into Yes, who provided the backdrop to some of my more colourful developing years (ahem!).  Upon trying to relive some of those moments through listening to the same albums, I found that Howe suddenly stood out as a horrible example of guitar-playing gone wrong.  I suddenly found myself listening to it and cringing when I put it on in the room with other people.  But most horrifically of all, I found it carved a great chunk out of the magic (I know, what a crap word - and you call me articulate!!) of the work as a whole. 

I am not trying to start a slanging match, indeed I put my thoughts down as honestly as I could (with obvious embellishments) in order to start a proper conversation.  This is not a Howe V Hackett poll.  I just wanted to know if it was JUST me that felt like this.  In many ways, your answer has been the most enlightening, and perhaps I will rediscover what it was I liked about Howe in the first place through this thread.  Just ask Ivan - after years of abuse directed at Genesis, I decided to listen to them properly and promptly became a fan.  I'm actually going to see the Musical Box this Saturday night .  Still havent told my friends.

Anyway, I just try to sound a bit more passionate on the forum, as I find it brings out the real feelings of the Forum posters.  Saying "Steve Howe is rubbish" was just a way in.  Saying "Steve Howe played some alright bits on Relayer dont you think?" is not going to interest anyone.

I will listen to the works you mention, and will promptly return a verdict.  And trust me, I WILL listen to them....

Wrath_of_Ninian wrote: Right, I've just about had enough of Steve Howe.   I used to really like Yes, but I cannot listen to them anymore because of Steve Howe's inane weedling.  I LOVE Close To The Edge, I LOVE Fragile, and I LOVE the Yes Album, but my all time favourite Yes album was always Going For The One.  Unfortunately I've started to get irritated by Howe's playing on it, and now I can barely listen to it without grinding my teeth and drumming my fingers in agitation.  I knew things had started to go wrong on Topographic Oceans - gone were the delicate atmospheric touches, the ghostly sounds, the meaningful attack, the sheer gorgeous melody, and in their place came....inane practice sessions of relentless arpeggios and cramming notes a al Maria Carey on anti-depressants.  Then things, got really bad.  He started to peek through the layers of my second favourite Yes album, Relayer - already suffering from the lack of Wakeman, but beautifully balanced and pitched with no instruments really dominating - the Howe effect started to ruin it for me.  Utterly pointless fret runs replaced any melody, whilst the SOUND of his guitar is just bloody awful.  My First Guitar Amp.  Ear-melting shrill and totally at odds to the brilliant ambience created by Moraz and Squire. THEN, oh God, I NEVER thought it could happen - I started in small doses, noticing his inanity on Going For The One - his guitar runs, his pointless overworked licks, his sheer audacity in standing outside the immense vision of the rest of the band.  His 'slide' contribution to the title track is ear-grating enough, but his doddering open to Turn Of The Century is contemptable.  Indeed, I'm convinced Jon Anderson just gets bored and comes in half way through it.  Listen to it, you'll see what I mean.  I think Parallels was actually Howe's composition, and listen to the solo in it.  Its utterly awful, bending fruitlessly out of tune without any discernible relation to his own backing.  Thank God he was curtailed for the epic Awaken.  Somebody take that volume pedal off him. In short, I hope this is contentious as the recent topics have been a little glib, but Howe represents everything that is WRONG with prog guitarists. His contributions to CTTE and Fragile were perfect, but after this time, he got totally carried away with his own technique-driven weedling, and in the process, the greatness of subsequent Yes albums was vastly reduced.    He should've spent a bit more time listening to Franco Mussida.....

That was a good read... thanks for that.  I don't agree with you at all, but I always find it interesting to read opinions, particularly ones as well thought-out and literately argued as this one.