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Slartibartfast 
Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: April 29 2006 Location: Atlantais Status: Offline Points: 29630 |
 Topic: Asia....rising from the rubble of prog rock??Posted: February 20 2012 at 06:39 |
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I basically took the position that if a prog artist had paid their dues so to speak I wasn't going to begrudge them when they attempted to achieve commercial success, but I didn't need to be along for the ride. And it's always a pleasure when these guys realize that there is still a decent prog fan base still out there and a newer generation worth making prog for.
Edited by Slartibartfast - February 20 2012 at 06:46 |
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
Posted: February 19 2012 at 22:31 |
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John Wetton especially was very clear that he saw Asia as the vehicle to achieve the commercial success he could not get with King Crimson. I remember he said UK was a little better but it was the first Asia album that fulfilled his commercial aspirations. |
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cstack3
Forum Senior Member 
VIP Member Joined: July 20 2009 Location: Tucson, AZ USA Status: Offline Points: 7341 |
Posted: February 19 2012 at 18:25 |
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Given that the founding members of this band all checked out, who was making the musical & personnel decisions???
The whole Asia thing reeked of "AOR formula" music, which was quite successful (in financial terms) for a while. I dunno, looks like this band was more of a corporate construct than true rock band driven by creative impulses of its members!
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 28498 |
Posted: February 18 2012 at 03:33 |
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
Posted: February 18 2012 at 03:24 |
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Quite inclined to agree with ProgBob. Let alone Kate Bush, the Asia debut is not imo as sophisticated as even Purple Rain or Synchronicity. It was decent AOR but then again Yes bettered them at that with 90125. Those vocal harmonies in Leave It showed Yes channeling their prog background in a pop/rock format whereas in Asia, all these prog musicians seemed to want to conform as far as possible to pop/rock.
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 28498 |
Posted: February 18 2012 at 02:56 |
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Pop music and rock music can be the same thing its never been a case of 'never the twain shall meet'. Genesis and Yes often strayed into poppier areas and were not always grounded in epic symphonic prog even in the seventies.
Wetton made it clear that he had got fed up working with Eddie Jobson (although its good that UK have reformed ,well the 3 peice version anyway) and wanted to do shorter songs. Of course with Howe and Palmer in the band it was always going to have some rock edge to it.
I liked the Asia debut because it had some strong prog elements but after that they went for a radio friendly approach pretty much with every song. There is some comparision with the last two albums where Phoenix has some nice prog related stuff but Omega is just good solid songs but nothing 'prog' based.
AOR is a very broad vague term and failry meangless imo.
BTW I agree about Kate Bush and Peter Gabriel. Funny thing I was thinking about this yesterday. Gabriel's early solo albums are not really 'pop' in any sense. I remember he was genuinely surprised when Games WIthout Frontiers became a hit. It was a very cold political song but just happened to have a bit of a hook. I suppose what is 'pop' music is what people like but then to some extent music is forced on us by what the the record companies and radio stations decide should go. But that's a whole other discussion!
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rupert
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 18 2006 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 610 |
Posted: February 17 2012 at 17:03 |
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I don't like the debut,
but after Howe/Palmer/Wetton ( which are all great musicians, of course ) had left I think they produced some good albums - I've been to a concert of the John Payne-Era once and afterwards I talked to Geoff Downes saying "You're better than ever - please go on this way !" He thanked me kindly but did not take my advice  ! |
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...I'm a musician/singer/songwriter, visit me on www.reverbnation.com/rupertlenz and there you can choose from 125 recordings you can listen to ( for free ) if you're not limited to prog-rock !
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ProgBob
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 02 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 202 |
Posted: February 17 2012 at 16:58 |
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I recall reading this sort of comment about Asia in other threads but I don't really agree. Firstly, Asia were still working in a rock idiom. The music was guitar based, had rock-style vocals and their image was rock. The fact that it was polished and commercial does not make it good pop. It was just crap rock. In fact it was AOR. Secondly, there is real pop music out there that has progressive elements (in the broadest sense) and which is far superior to anything that Asia ever did. You could go back to the Beatles for this, or contemporaries of Asia such as Kate Bush, Peter Gabriel, or XTC, or more recent bands such as Everything, Everything or Field Music. That to me is good progressive pop music; quite unlike the commercial second rate rock churned out by Asia. Forgive me if I sound overly critical, but I still remember the disappointment I felt when that album came out. I am the right age to have got heavily into Yes as a teenager in the early 80's just after they split following Drama. It was in many ways a depressing time to discover Yes and other prog as it was all so out of favour and there was no new music nor bands I could go to see. I remember being very excited when I first heard of Asia forming, only to have my hopes dashed when I first heard the album. |
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Bob
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 28498 |
Posted: February 17 2012 at 01:45 |
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^ the only lineup worth talking about is the orginal one. I have heard some of the other albums and they are okay. Asia were always meant to be a superior pop band or 'pop prog' band. In some respects they paved the way for It Bites which was a nice radio friendly version of prog.
as a side note there was a short lived project between Geoff Downes and Greg Lake called 'Ride The Tiger'. Two tracks can be found on Greg Lake's compilation album ' From The Beginning'. That was quite interesting but never got off the ground sadly.
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cstack3
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member Joined: July 20 2009 Location: Tucson, AZ USA Status: Offline Points: 7341 |
Posted: February 17 2012 at 00:34 |
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I tend to agree! Looking at all of the personnel changes they had, I'm not sure that they stayed in the category of "Supergroup" once founding members started to check out. More like a "franchise." From the Wikipedia page: PersonnelThrough the years, Geoff Downes and John Payne were the two most consistent members of the band, which experienced a revolving roster of noted musicians, particularly in the 1990s. The lineup has been as follows: Current members of Asia are the following founding members:
Former band members of Asia are:
Certain musicians have joined and left after a short time without recording any studio material with the group. The most notable collaboration of this kind was the participation of Greg Lake in the "Asia in Asia" concert on bass guitar and lead vocals. Yet more musicians have played as session musicians or have guested with the band without formally joining. Some of these artists include: Robert Fleischman, Vinnie Colaiuta, Francis Dunnery, Ant Glynne, Scott Gorham, Tomoyasu Hotei, Luis Jardim, Ron Komie, Tony Levin, Steve Lukather,Thomas Lang, Kim Nielsen-Parsons, Simon Phillips, and Alex Thomas. [edit] |
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King Manuel
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 16 2010 Location: South Africa Status: Offline Points: 952 |
Posted: February 16 2012 at 05:46 |
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Actually long ago before I kew about the existance of prog rock I heard a few Asia tracks. I was very impressed with their bombastic sound. Tracks like Donīt Cry, Heat of the Moment, Midnight Sun, etc. spoke to me. Years later, when I had turned from a metal head into a prog head I started buying some Asia CDs and attend two concerts, and yes, to make a long story short, there is something to them, I donīt like all their stuff, but I still put them regularly in my CD player ... maybe this has also to do with the fact that my wife tolerates them being played loud in her presence, something which canīt be said about a lot of other stuff I listen to ....
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Don't Bore Us, Get To The Chorus
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igySK
Forum Groupie 
Joined: November 08 2011 Location: Slovakia Status: Offline Points: 65 |
Posted: February 01 2012 at 06:25 |
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I know they're an OK band but I just don't feel that excited when I listen to it. Although some parts are really epic, I don't really like the band's drum style and I just don't feel any kind of creativity in it...
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: April 29 2006 Location: Atlantais Status: Offline Points: 29630 |
Posted: January 25 2012 at 17:36 |
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Geoff Downes was ok on keys and the songs were ok for commercial.
By the way I was exaggerating the awesomeness of King Crimson in relation to Yes and Genesis. |
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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geneyesontle
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 14 2012 Location: Quebec Status: Offline Points: 1266 |
Posted: January 25 2012 at 17:10 |
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I think that the songs of this band are not so good but all the musicians of this band are awesome (except maybe Geoff Downes).
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prog4evr
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 22 2005 Location: Wuhan, China Status: Offline Points: 1455 |
Posted: January 21 2012 at 22:55 |
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Well said, my good man!
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brainstormer
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 20 2008 Location: Seattle, WA Status: Offline Points: 887 |
Posted: January 14 2012 at 15:42 |
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The phrase "rubble of prog rock" goes along rather eerily with the demise
of intelligent culture in the foreground of popular media. It's almost like more intelligent people are more of a threat to those that own big interests in manufacturing and so on. I think dumbing down a culture is a spiritual evil, so I don't look at it in any socialist way, as I am a capitalist (not a predatory capitalist, but the Andrew Carnegie/George Eastman kind). |
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--
Robert Pearson Regenerative Music http://www.regenerativemusic.net Telical Books http://www.telicalbooks.com ParaMind Brainstorming Software http://www.paramind.net |
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AmbianceMan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 30 2009 Location: Dayton, OH Status: Offline Points: 113 |
Posted: January 14 2012 at 12:45 |
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I am familiar with Asia, and from what I know I never considered them to be related to prog rock. They are the epitome of everything I hate about popular guitar rock. I put them in the class of late 80's early 90's hair metal ballads. When I heard who was in the band, I admit I had to do a double take and say WTF?
I'm not bashing those who are fans, but on the surface I would use their CD as a beer coaster.
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
Posted: January 11 2012 at 06:31 |
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Would be quite happy to take 90125 over the Asia s/t. And for That's All and Job to Do, would take the Genesis s/t too though that's much closer. |
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: April 29 2006 Location: Atlantais Status: Offline Points: 29630 |
Posted: January 10 2012 at 18:13 |
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 I of course base this opinion on KC not achieving commercial success. Edited by Slartibartfast - January 10 2012 at 18:15 |
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 28498 |
Posted: January 10 2012 at 15:28 |
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To be honest I preferred Asia over what Yes and Genesis were doing at the time and just couldn't get into the new King Crimson style at all.
Carl Palmer was still a big presence on the debut album and Howe wasn't bad . It was when they got to Alpha that they depressed me and Astra was dreadfull.
Greg Lake only replaced Wetton for one live show.
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Asia....rising from the rubble of prog rock??
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cstack3 wrote: