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Rendref View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Genre Classification Issues
    Posted: March 29 2012 at 03:18
How about creating genres per album, like it happens on "metalmusicarchives.com"?
It's really obvious that almost every band, especially with long history, played in different genres. For example, Pink Floyd: first four albums are definitely Psychedelic/Space Rock, but take "Division Bell" - where the hell is Psychedelic/Space Rock? It's more Crossover Prog.
Take discography of Porcupine Tree. Firstly - Psychedelic/Space Rock, then - some mix of Progressive Metal and Heavy Prog, but still with Wilson dark/depression atmosphere. After "Fear of the Blank Planet" it's music again more some kind of depressive/atmosphere prog.
Haken and Rush also counts for Heavy Prog. So if I make a Heavy Prog to listen list, I found in top there "The Sky Moves Sideways" - and did this how exactly  happened? This album is so Psychedelic/Space Rock, it has almost nothing to do with Heavy Prog genre.
Another word fo "dark depressive/atmosphere prog". There are plenty of bands, that play such a music. I suppose this "dark atmosphere" (sometimes just boring atmosphere, like late Marillion) has nothing to do with genre? Because I found such band in different genres: Porcupine Tree in Heavy Prog, Gazpacho - Crossover (and Mike Oldfield is Crossover, and Gungfly is Crossover? Gungfly is so joyful, that putting bands like Gazpacho to Crossover make me ask questions), Marillion - Neo-Prog (I absolutely love IQ version of Neo-Prog, but Marillion plays "atmosphere prog" - dark, light, space atmosphere, don't know, it's just not Neo-prog), etc, etc.
I suggest to list subgenres per album, not per artist. It will be more clearly on what music to expect from the albums.
Well, I don't wait creation of "dark depressive atmosphere prog" genre, it will be to much :). But this type of music is obviously exists and I think that for more clearly description of music it should be somehow written. I don't know, maybe just Space Rock? Or maybe some kind of post music. I don't know.
And in Symphonic Prog band there is a lot of sh*ty AOR albums. Well, why not create AOR genre? Or some kind of sub-note in genre, just to know, and to see, that some albums are not Symphonic Prog albums, but AOR, New Age or other genres albums. These subgenres are not even needed to be put on top of the sites, in the "genre listing". May they exits in a way of sub-notes on albums pages.

Did anyone made it trough this post? )))



Edited by Rendref - March 29 2012 at 06:24
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Bosh66 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2012 at 14:21
Thanks, yes it does help.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2012 at 13:04
Originally posted by Bosh66 Bosh66 wrote:

If this thread is still going,


A full, detailed policy on this issue has been published since the thread was active last time:

Band Moves Policy

Hope that helps.

Squarepusher has been added to JR/F because he has some proper jazz-rock albums, his electronica output was irrelevant to the process.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2012 at 02:18
Originally posted by Triceratopsoil Triceratopsoil wrote:

Probably because only 2 of their albums could even be described as Zeuhl
 
Thanks, must be the two that I have then Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2012 at 21:17
Yea, like Colin said, not PE in the PA form of PE.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2012 at 21:14
Squarepusher is more on the electronic side. I have Hard Normal Daddy, and while there is definitely some jazz and fusion elements (especially in his bass playing), the overall music is electronic or drum n bass.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2012 at 20:50
Originally posted by Andy Webb Andy Webb wrote:

Isn't Squarepusher a dubstep artist?

Drill n bass
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2012 at 19:50
I thought he was under the Electronica tag?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2012 at 19:48
Isn't Squarepusher a dubstep artist?

Edited by Andy Webb - March 06 2012 at 19:48
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2012 at 19:27
Maybe, but he's not "progressive electronic" by the site's definition.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2012 at 18:34
Squarepusher should be in electronic. I never once have listened to him and thought about the nice jazz I was listening to.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2012 at 17:07
Probably because only 2 of their albums could even be described as Zeuhl
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2012 at 16:11
If this thread is still going, why are Guapo under RIO/Avant and not Zeuhl?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 25 2011 at 14:07
I think 10cc should be under crossover. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 25 2011 at 14:04
LOL Now you can vote in polls Smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 25 2011 at 13:57
Hey, I'm now a Groupie! Hope the band members are lookers!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 25 2011 at 13:55
Here's another band where the genre allocation throws me a little (and contrary to how this might look, I don't generally get that hung up on labels, but anyhooo...)
Samurai released their eponymous album back in 1971. A very nice little album that mixes psych rock and jazz, and to me has quite a strong Canterbury sound, including on the bonus tracks which include live songs written for an unrealised second album. A special collaborator reviewing the album describes it as, "solid, energetic proto- prog with heavily inflicted jazz and R'n'B undertones, moderately related to the Canterbury patterns and an extra psychedelic sensibility." I don't think to my ears that's too far from the mark. What I would argue is that this one album band is much closer to Canterbury than Art Rock (it's under Crossover). The band in the album notes describe themselves as progressive jazz-rock.
At the end of the day though, I'm just happy that the album is listed.


Edited by Bosh66 - August 25 2011 at 13:58
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 25 2011 at 13:46
"come to think of it, Dzyan are in some ways more jazz rock/fusion than specifically krautrock". Good point, presdoug. Dzyan certainly has jr/f at their core, but certainly indo-prog is a big part of their sound. The definition on this site of Krautrock as, "an anarchic, intense, acid, tellurian, nocturnal, spacey, dark and oniric "adventure" through rock music." doesn't particularly apply to this band anymore than a number of prog bands. In my humble uneducated opinion of course Smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2011 at 11:52
Originally posted by aginor aginor wrote:

interesting  this might be of something that might help improve the site

also the guys who wrote it seems very knowledgeable about prog, so maybe contact him and let him join the squad. (or maybe he already are :O )

Hi Aginor, this is not new, as a fact when Prog Archive started, ART ROCK was the sub-genre (or category if you want) in where bands like Roxy Music, STYX, ASIA, etc falled.

GEPR supported this theory with their definition:

Quote

Art Rock

The very border of progressive music in which more commercial styles of music were created at a different angle. Not quite progressive but almost.

Bands

Be Bop Deluxe, early Eno, Roxy Music, etc.


On those days M@x created Prog Related and more or less covered the parameters of what we had considered Art Rock, so we were ibna prolem

Later there was a big discussion here and Mike (If I'm not wrong) presented us the new definition of Art Rock, as a fact with Tony we discovered that the term Art Rock had evolved through time:

  1. In the early 70's Art Rock was a synonymous of Progressive Rock
  2. From the 80's to late 90's, Art Rock was used to describe more or less what Jerry Lucky said.
  3. Since the 21st Century begun, Art Rock was used to define those bands that 
    • Crossed more than one genre through their career as King Crimson
    • Were almost impossible to classify into the limits of one sub-genre like Gentle Giant 
    • Bands that are one of a kind and don't fit in any sub-genre, as a fact GEPR had a this genres: 
Quote

Oldfield Progressive

I don't know what else to call this type of music since it was so innovative. Mike Oldfield, an incredible musician and composer created a form of music that combined everything form hard rock to Celtic music and did it with such style and verve that it actually became popular. Usually written like Symphonic prog and was also quite bombastic yet more sensible.

Bands



And this one

Quote

Zappa Music

If you listen to Frank Zappa, you know what I mean. Not typically quoted as being "progressive" but deserves to be included here maybe more than some of these others. Quite individual.

Bands



So it was obvious that this bands fall into Art Rock, instead of creating new absurd sub-genres for one band, so with this information Tony and I wrote a new definition that was on the site for a couple years:

Quote


Not a sub-genre “per se”, more a category; being that bands included in Art Rock may have very few things in common other than the fact that they are all 100% Progressive Rock.

The term Art Rock has evolved from being a synonym of Progressive Rock in the early 70's to being considered the borderline between Progressive Rock and mainstream in the 90's. However, the term changed again with the new century and these are the characteristics of the bands that will be included in this category:

 

  1. 100% Prog bands
  2. Bands that are beyond the limits of the sub-genre parameters or
  3. Bands that have evolved through their career so much that they crossed different sub-genres without any single sub-genre being preeminent over the rest or
  4. Bands that have characteristics of two or more different sub-genres and can’t be reasonably classified in either or
  5. Bands that simply are one of a kind and for that reason can’t be included as part of any sub-genre.


The main difference with Prog-Related is that in this second category the bands included are not career Prog bands or are simply non Prog bands that have influenced or been influenced by the genre.


Prog Archives accepts that it’s a very generic category but we believe it is necessary to avoid creating an endless number of sub-genres for each eclectic band that appears.


When Micky and Raff left the Symphonic Team, they took Art Rock, but the genre was HUGE, being that most teams (Including Symphonic), had sent the bands that no team accepted to Art Roick

So the Administrators decided to divide Art Rock into three new genres:
  1. Eclectic
  2. Crossover
  3. Heavy Prog
This  solved the issue of having almost 1,000 bands in one sigle category called Art Rock, and used the existing definition to create three genres.

Keep Proggin'

Iván

BTW: I believe Jerry has collaborated with us more than once.


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - August 23 2011 at 12:21
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2011 at 02:01
interesting  this might be of something that might help improve the site

also the guys who wrote it seems very knowledgeable about prog, so maybe contact him and let him join the squad. (or maybe he already are :O )
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