Why Iron Maiden is better than DT

Certif1ed wrote: MikeEnRegalia wrote: Certif1ed wrote: MikeEnRegalia wrote: Reaper16 wrote: This is very simple. Iron Maiden run rings around Dream Theatre. Mainly becasue DT aren't songwriters. Like, at all. Amazingly talented musicians that don't have very many strong songs. It;s the same problem that plagues Pain of Salvation, although to a lesser degree. Dream Theater run rings around Iron Maiden in terms of complexity and structure. Iron Maiden write catchy metal songs. Not the Dream Theater I've heard - they use simple rock song structures and decorate them with unnecessary bridges and codas in a vain attempt to hide the simple underlying structure. That's one of my biggest criticisms of them, and the main reason I can't accept them as true prog. In just about everything I've heard, it's Intro-Verse-Chorus-Verse-Choruse-Bridge-Verse-Chorus-Coda with frills, and nothing else. *yawn!* Maiden, at least, were not trying to be prog You should swap your FII for some IaW or A! BTW: Who said that prog songs are not allowed to have verse-chorus? Say goodbye to 50% of Pink Floyd ... No-one said that. It's how it's done, not what is done. With most Floyd, the structure is carefully hidden. With almost any DT, it's wide open and blatantly obvious - hardly progressive. I've heard "IaW", and it's more pop-rock ballads in standard form - hardly a masterpiece of prog. Not even prog, really.

Sorry John sorry better listen again.

I respect your opinion on DT, but are you sure that you're even trying to be objective here? I mean, Pull Me Under is a metal song, I give you that. Another Day is an AORish ballad, no problem admitting that either. But all the other tracks are prog. Play them to someone who's used to pop rock ballads, and he'd hurl them right back at you.

Did you listen closely to Wait For Sleep, and how that theme is played with during all of Learning To Live? Did you listen to Metropolis Pt.1 and recognize how those themes are played with on their other records?

I agree that most of what DT do is usually right in your face, not very subtile. But not ALL of it.

BTW: I think that Awake is much better than I&W. If you're looking for an inventive, spontaneous and truly majestic album, then it can only be Awake. They have pop elements there too, on Innocence faded and Lifting Shadows ..., but even they are full of complex riffs, solos and rhythmic extravaganzas.

Certif1ed wrote: MikeEnRegalia wrote: Reaper16 wrote: This is very simple. Iron Maiden run rings around Dream Theatre. Mainly becasue DT aren't songwriters. Like, at all. Amazingly talented musicians that don't have very many strong songs. It;s the same problem that plagues Pain of Salvation, although to a lesser degree. Dream Theater run rings around Iron Maiden in terms of complexity and structure. Iron Maiden write catchy metal songs. Not the Dream Theater I've heard - they use simple rock song structures and decorate them with unnecessary bridges and codas in a vain attempt to hide the simple underlying structure. That's one of my biggest criticisms of them, and the main reason I can't accept them as true prog. In just about everything I've heard, it's Intro-Verse-Chorus-Verse-Choruse-Bridge-Verse-Chorus-Coda with frills, and nothing else. *yawn!* Maiden, at least, were not trying to be prog

You should swap your FII for some IaW or A!

BTW: Who said that prog songs are not allowed to have verse-chorus? Say goodbye to 50% of Pink Floyd ...

He is ... many other influential musicians (Portnoy for instance) say that he's a genius.

Reaper16 wrote: This is very simple. Iron Maiden run rings around Dream Theatre. Mainly becasue DT aren't songwriters. Like, at all. Amazingly talented musicians that don't have very many strong songs. It;s the same problem that plagues Pain of Salvation, although to a lesser degree.

Dream Theater run rings around Iron Maiden in terms of complexity and structure. Iron Maiden write catchy metal songs.

salmacis wrote: Personally speaking, I much prefer Iron Maiden over Dream Theater, as Maiden are simply one of the most influential bands ever, having had two of the greatest vocalists ever in Di'Anno and Dickinson (let's forget the Blaze Bayley debacle). Maiden's first 8 albums are incredible metal masterworks, and they've recently done their best album in years with 'Dance Of Death'. Glad to see Samson namechecked- I think the album after 'Head On', 'Shock Tactics' is even better- and one of the greatest British metal albums ever- Dickinson is on astounding vocal form. Did anyone ever hear Samson's successor to Bruce, Nicky Moore? That guy has an astonishingly good rock voice.

Yeah, I saw them at a gig in Reading - I didn't really like Moore's voice then - but I suppose Dickinson was a hard act to follow, and there was tons of great metal around. "Riding With The Angels" was a great track.

I've got an (autographed) EP of Samson/Moore - "Losing My Grip", which I won with the gig tickets in a local radio competition - I'll dig it out for a re-listen - thanks for the reminder!

"Head On" really stands out because of the sheer inventiveness on that album - sure the guys were still finding their feet as musicians, but the enthusiasm - especially from the drummer (who was called "Thunderstick", and kept locked in a cage...) and the amazing Paul Samson (RIP).

An indication of Samson's incredible talent is that he went on to play with such rock luminaries as Ric Lee (Ten Years After), Ian Ellis (Savoy Brown) and Chris Farlowe.

Trotsky wrote: I'm a hard-core classic prog fan (90% of my prog is from 68-75) and I distinctly prefer listening to Iron Maiden (own around 8 albums) to Dream Theater (own 3) ... I would never use the word better though ... and most of the points you mentioned maidenrulez, are subjective

I agree.

I would use the terms "I prefer" and "because..."

Doing this ensures a discussion rather than a boring exchange of opinions. This board has a much higher ratio of discussions to slanging matches compared to other forums out there - which is a large part of what keeps me coming back.

I must admit, I prefer listening to Iron Maiden - their early albums (up to and including "Number Of The Beast") are heavy metal classics of the highest order, IMO. Just pretentious enough, very melodic and catchy, driving slabs of power that develop and grow in exactly the right way to provoke an air-guitar attack.

I can listen to "Number..." from start to finish anytime. I can hardly make it to track 3 of the average Dream Theater album without getting bored of waiting for the energy to kick in or the emotions to carry me away. It just doesn't happen. And I never feel like air-guitaring to Petrucci - he just doesn't know how to ROCK, IMO.

Iron Maiden's debut is a total classic too - ragged, raw, tribal power with a pure aggression that makes the so-called Death Metal bands of Norway and suchlike seem somewhat tame. This album contains a double measure of neat, 50% proof feeling and energy.

But anyone who likes metal should own "Head On" by Samson. This not only has more raw energy than Iron Maiden's debut, but it has what that album lacks: Bruce Dickinson on vocals!

DarHobo wrote: Besides, he stepped on his own tail and tried to pull out stuff that's way harder than what he can play! His performance on the new Dream Theater DVD is very dissapointing. He messed up on just about every 'shred' section on all of his songs! And his clean solos on Solitary Shell and Hollow Years... well, besides hitting the wrong notes a lot, his string action is so stupidly low that his clean tone is terrible! I could hear nothing but fret buzz... a shame. He's way too sloppy for what he tries to play.

I'm curious ... could you give me an example? What part of which song does he screw up?

DarHobo wrote: TheProgtologist wrote: WTF maidenrulez?You claim to love DT and post threads talking about how great they are and then bash them in another.All your topics are juvenile "this _______ band rules" or "this______band sucks" or "this______band is better than that_____band".Pointless BS. He might have multiple personality disorder?

good point