Another nail in the coffin: The postal system - Progressive Rock Music Forum

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Equality 7-2521 View Drop Down

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Topic: Another nail in the coffin: The postal system
Posted: January 25 2011 at 10:47

Thanks for the autobiography.

"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "

timothy leary View Drop Down

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Posted: January 25 2011 at 10:46

Glad you approve, I would love to stay and chat but instead i will walk out my back door into the Olympic State forest and see if I can round up some tasty boletes for tonight's dinner, nice having a backyard that stretches for miles.

hobocamp

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Posted: January 25 2011 at 10:41

Oh yeah wait a minute mister postman.

Have we lost all the warm fuzzies about the postal system?

Edited by hobocamp - January 25 2011 at 10:43

Equality 7-2521 View Drop Down

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Posted: January 25 2011 at 10:10

Great input Tim.

"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "

timothy leary View Drop Down

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Posted: January 25 2011 at 09:22

Talking w/o doing anything, seeing things as good or bad, and on and on goes the circle game

Equality 7-2521 View Drop Down

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Posted: January 25 2011 at 07:35

In 1844 Lysander Spooner opened the American Letter Mail Company to compete with the USPS for letter delivery. He was able to offer a rate of 5 cents per letter and free local delivery, compared to the 12 cents per letter charged by the USPS.

He offered the service to the American people at less than half the rate charged by the government, and he did not require strong-arming money through taxation as the post office did so that he could do it.

The government shut down his operation seven years later after a lengthy legal battle.

How can that action possibly be justified? It was essentially a deliberate action to make people poorer. Couldn't struggling people use the same kind of relief today?

Of course none of this matters because as you see the response will be, "CRAZY LIBERTARIANS HATE THE GOVERNMENT FOR NO REASON LOL WHO CARES BOUT DA MAIL? IT WORKS FINE."

"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "

harmonium.ro View Drop Down

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Posted: January 25 2011 at 07:32

Padraic wrote:

lol...how did a discussion on the post office lead to this.

oh wait it's progarchives

It's all my fault again; it all happened because of my joke attempt with ideological subtext from page 2. Embarrassed

I said "again" because it's not the first time - remember how I turned Slarti's thread about being held by the police into a 40 pages long thread about guns in America? Embarrassed

Epignosis

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Posted: January 25 2011 at 07:22

Padraic wrote:

relevant article

It's unbelievable how people in this thread are defending a government monopoly that is losing money. $8.5 billions in 2010? Wow.

How do you have a monopoly on something, get taxpayer money, still charge people for your service, and lose $8.5 billion in on year?

And people are okay with this? No wonder we're screwed.

https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays

Epignosis

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Posted: January 25 2011 at 07:07

Padraic wrote:

timothy leary wrote:

Padraic wrote:

timothy leary wrote:

You don't like the government, then tear it down, all talk, no action.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma

And your point is?

You have set up a false dichotomy in that we must either accept the status quo completely or overthrow the government, which is clearly ridiculous.

Thanks Pat. If anyone has read my opinions about government, I am a conservative libertarian- I am not an anarchist. I believe there is a need and benefit of government, but the government we have is neither needed nor beneficial- only a minimal portion of it is, and even that is funded immorally.

https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays

Equality 7-2521 View Drop Down

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Posted: January 25 2011 at 06:44

Proletariat wrote:

the citizens of this nation see nothing wrong with the postal system having a monopoly on mailboxes and letters and until they change their minds it will remain this way. the system is working and the collective majority likes it, so why insist that it is in need of reform when it obviously isn't

Majority vote is hardly a reason to justify something. Does anyone really need to still point out examples of this?

Either way, you're asking the wrong question. The relevant question would be does the majority prefer the USPS or private delivered mail.

Call me crazy, but some people might want to be able to get a letter delivered on a Sunday.

"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "

Equality 7-2521 View Drop Down

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Posted: January 25 2011 at 06:41

Padraic wrote:

timothy leary wrote:

or grumble and fill yourselves with negativity, one hell of an option

seems to work well for you

Pat has been witty as hell in this thread.

"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "

Equality 7-2521 View Drop Down

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Posted: January 25 2011 at 06:40

timothy leary wrote:

I am not the one moaning about the government , you are.
The mark of a moderate man is freedom from his own ideas.
Will you deliver my mail?

lol @ another false dichotomy

"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "

JJLehto

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Posted: January 25 2011 at 01:01

The T wrote:

Anthony H. wrote:

JJLehto wrote:

Anthony H. wrote:

JJLehto wrote:

PROGARCHIVES:Even our debates about the post office get heated

I should start a thread about whether paper or plastic bags are better.

Dude! That's about to cross a line...

I guarantee that it would get heated.

I guarantee you both will be banned by tomorrow morning.

For that? Seems like a light offense compared to others out there!
Fear not, I have no want to partake in something that stupid LOL

The T

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Posted: January 25 2011 at 00:57

Anthony H. wrote:

JJLehto wrote:

Anthony H. wrote:

JJLehto wrote:

PROGARCHIVES:Even our debates about the post office get heated

I should start a thread about whether paper or plastic bags are better.

Dude! That's about to cross a line...

I guarantee that it would get heated.

I guarantee you both will be banned by tomorrow morning.

The T

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Posted: January 25 2011 at 00:54

Proletariat wrote:

The T wrote:

Proletariat wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Proletariat wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Proletariat wrote:

im sorry i don't want to live through a period of turmoil resulting from a major change in the economic structure of my nation? if the majority of citizens like the postal service then libertarians need to suck it up.

Glad you weren't around during the Revolution. Thumbs Down

I believe in the masses making decisions, if the majority of americans wanted change I wouldn't so much mind... although I would probably go somewhere else until the bad bit was over.

Do you know if the majority of Americans want change or not? Have you asked them?And as for comfort and safety trumping morality and liberty, we have had a lot of that throughout our history. Still do.

im sorry i put the safety and happyness of myself and my family before idealism. revolutions are tricky... how do i know if this particular one will end up like the american revolution because I ain't dying for one that ends up like the russian or cuban or even the french revolution... I want no part of the rieghn of terror thank you

There would be no reign of terror because there is no group holding absolute power over the rest.

What an idealist for someone called "Proletariat".

i am a communist in my belief in the evolution of social systems leading to communism but I am not an advocate of rovolution.

also I don't see how a liberterian system in which buisness is unfettered by regulation could end up in anything other than oligarchy. whithout a strong central government it is natural for social inequalities to widen and the wealthyest will come out on top and those on bottom will be more or less serfs. so while ideally there would be no group with absolute power economically of course their would be.

First paragraph: then you're no communist. Communism as such can only be achieved by the revolution of the, ehem, proletariat. Or, in reality, by the gaining of absolute power by a bureaucracy. But it wouldn't be communism sincethere would not be "to each according to his needs, from each according to his possibilities". It would be "to each according to a group of people''s plans, from each according to the same group of people's needs for a comfortable life".

Second paragraph: there are TONS of oligarchies in the world, many holding a lot of power over people, specially in countries with more regulation and bigger governments. Contradiction anyone? What tools do you think these oligarchies use to exert their power?