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Direct Link To This Post Topic: The History Of Metal
    Posted: June 16 2005 at 04:58
Link Wray are worth checking out - anyone who sticks pencils into their amp to improve the distortion definately belongs on this list!  The song Rumble was banned in some places for being too suggestive - pretty strange for an instrumental.

Dick Dale's Misirlou can be heard in Pulp Fiction.

Both Link Wray and Dick Dale are regarded as the Father of Heavy Metal (along with Ozzy). Dick Dale is also known as the King of Surf Guitar, as he largely pioneered that movement as well.

I wasn't sure whether to include the Stones or not. And I thought  UFO didn't get heavy until their third album? Wishbone Ash are another "maybe" band (not really heavy enough, but I think Iron Maiden cite them as an influence). Nazareth's classic album Razamanaz was released in 1973, a little too late for this list, as is T Rex's 20th Century Boy (1973).

Theres a lot of bands here that are new to me that I'm going to have to check out...


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2005 at 03:55

Savoy Brown's first single was from 1965, I think- it was released on Mike Vernon's label Purdah Records and the single had 'I Tried' on the A side and 'I Can't Quit You Baby' on the B side, I think. That single goes for silly money now in the UK- around £200 I think....

UFO were one of the best rock bands ever, with a brilliant 6 album run on Chrysalis from 'Phenomenon' to 'Strangers In The Night', and Michael Schenker's guitar work is superb; one of the greatest metal guitarists ever.

Nazareth were almost certainly an influence on 80s metal; Axl Rose certainly sounds a little like Dan McCafferty (the singer) and Axl even played 'Love Hurts' by Nazareth at his wedding...

Bakerloo are one of the more underrated bands of the era- 'Big Bear Ffolly' is pure heavy rock, plus Clem Clempson went on to join Colosseum and Humble Pie, who also deserve a place here- their boogie rock is obviously an influence on bands like Thunder and Whitesnake. Keith Baker went on to play drums for Uriah Heep, by the way.



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2005 at 03:48

You've got me on Link Wray and Dick Dale there, milla! I'll have to check those out.

Good call on the Kingsmen and the Kinks - I would also include the Nashville Teens (formed 1962) "Tobacco Road" (1964).

I thought "Shakedown" (Savoy Brown's first album) wasn't released until 1966...

The Beatles also have a role (as in almost any other genre of popular music!) - both "Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Heartclub Band" (1967) and "Helter Skelter" (1968) are proto-metal in sound, if not attitude, and even the Stones general "bad boy" attitude and riff-driven sound is relevant in metal's development.

"Better By You, Better Than Me" was covered by Judas Priest - but I think the most rockin' track on Spooky Two is "Evil Woman". Sure, the vocals suck, but the track is hybrid prog metal, and the solos and riffs are almost pure Black Sabbath (Sweet Leaf).

Mountain's "Nantucket Sleighride" is an absolute classic - good call.

I think Bakerloo deserve a place in there - especially as they essentially went on to form May Blitz - even though Terry Poole and Kieth Baker both moved on. Bakerloo's sound was very heavy - not metal, but heavy enough to be on the "proto" list. I'd also include High Tide.

I definitely wouldn't include Hawkwind's 1st album - but "In Search of Space" (1971) is a must, and the song "Silver Machine" (1972) was considered a metal classic during the NWOBHM.

 

I think other ommissions include Nazareth (1971), UFO (1969) Black Widow (Sacrifice - 1970), ZZ Top (1970), King Crimson (ITCOTCK), and The Doors.

 

Of course, the most important contribution was by Black Sabbath (1970)...

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2005 at 16:40

Yeah a good summary of proto metal- I was going to mention Fleetwood Mac; 'Green Manalishi' was also the subject of a great cover by Judas Priest. There was also a very heavy 30 minute version of 'Rattlesnake Shake' that I had once by Fleetwood Mac- lots of solos and thundering bass by John McVie.

I reckon John Mayall's 'Bluesbreakers with Eric Clapton' defined not only blues rock, but also heavy rock (for a while, the two were almost indistinguishable) as well; listen to Eric Clapton's scorching solos on 'All Your Love' and 'Hideaway', plus the brilliant 'Stepping Out' which developed into lengthy versions by Cream.

Although I wouldn't claim The Yardbirds were that heavy a band, Eric Clapton and Jeff Beck's guitar work with them re-defined the rock guitarist from the more country approach of players like Scotty Moore and Cliff Gallup. Also, any band that had Clapton, Beck and Jimmy Page in their ranks must have been an influence of heavy rock in some way. The Yardbirds could be seen as a springboard to these future legends of rock guitar.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2005 at 08:44
An update to my Proto Metal list, in chronological order:

1958 - Link Wray - Rumble
1961 - Dick Dale - Misirlou
1963 - The Kingsmen - Louie Louie
1964 - The Kinks - You Really Got Me
1964 - The Kinks - All Day And All Of The Night
1965 - The Who
1965 - Savoy Brown
1966 - The Troggs - Wild Thing
1967 - Jimi Hendrix - Purple Haze
1967 - Cream - Sunshine Of Your Love
1967 - Traffic
1967 - Vanilla Fudge
1967 - Ten Years After - Ssssh
1968 - Steppenwolf - Born To Be Wild
1968 - Blue Cheer - Vincebus Eruptum
1968 - The Yardbirds
1968 - Iron Butterfly - In A Gadda Da Vida
1968 - Jeff Beck - Truth
1969 - Spooky Tooth - Better By You, Better Than Me
1969 - Jeff Beck - Beckola
1969 - Grand Funk Railroad
1969 - Mountain
1969 - Colosseum
1970 - Fleetwood Mac - The Green Manalishi (With the Two-Pronged Crown)
1970 - Free - All Right Now
1970 - Hawkwind
1970 - May Blitz
1971 - Rory Gallagher





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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 14 2005 at 14:35

Good point about Hawkwind - I felt the link to metal might be slightly tenuous, and was going to mention them in the NWOBHM assessment, as "Sonic Attack" is a hybrid metal album. Although Hawkwind had the riffs - and the overwhelming power, when they chose to use it, they did not remain in the heavy realm for long. They are a unique band, and "Space Rock" is a term synonymous with them and early Floyd.

Hawkwind and the Pink Fairies gigged together - often as "Pinkwind", and both appear on the Glastonbury Fayre triple LP set from 1971 with side-long pieces. On this album, though, I think it's quite clear that the Fairies are prog metal/psychedelia gone ballistic, and Hawkwind about a quarter way between the Fairies and Gong.

The influence of the mighty 'wind on other rock bands (in almost every subgenre), even now should not be underestimated.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 14 2005 at 08:18

Ten Years After are a very good group, and if we're on the subject of blues rock being a metal precursor, Taste and Rory Gallagher could be considered forerunners of the metal genre; Taste were one of the last great power trios (the last in my opinion, being Robin Trower's band) that took Cream and Hendrix's lead, making some very heavy blues rock albums.

Rory then had a solo career, which was fantastically consistent without a dud to speak out, and created some of the greatest rock tracks of the 70s that stand up to anything people such as Ted Nugent and Montrose were making during this era.

And whilst mentioning Robin Trower, his 1970s albums with the late great James Dewar (of Stone The Crows- good blues rock band themselves) and Reg Isadore on drums, similarly rock very hard, with riffs like 'Bridge Of Sighs' that can easily be heard in some later metal bands (Personally speaking, the riff from 'Bridge Of Sighs' is a little like 'Seasons In The Abyss' by Slayer to these ears). Indeed- Zakk Wylde of Ozzy Osbourne and (briefly) Guns 'N' Roses, cites Robin Trower as a major influence.

The Groundhogs, who Certif1ed mentioned, were another brilliant power trio, and tracks like 'Cherry Red' and 'Strange Town' would have been some of the heaviest rock out there in the 1970s. For fans of these aforementioned bands, check out a hugely underrated trio called Three Man Army, that made 3 albums and are all (yet haphazardly) compiled on a 2-CD set by Sanctuary called 'Soldiers Of Rock'.

Whilst this may be a strange choice, I reckon Hawkwind were a big influence on metal, and had some brutal riffs such as 'Orgone Accumulator', 'Born To Go' and 'Masters Of The Universe'. They may have had some influence on the sci-fi obsessions of metal bands too, in my opinion, and Hawkwind didn't see themselves as prog rockers- Lemmy once said 'we were never into love and peace' I believe. They were also contemporaries of The Pink Fairies, yet gained more acclaim than the Pink Fairies ever did.

On the subject of The Pink Fairies, they evolved from a good band called The Deviants, who made 3 heavy, Zappa esque rock albums themselves, but are in truth are possibly more psychedelic than heavy rock/metal.

Has anyone mentioned 'southern rock'? Bands like Lynyrd Skynyrd and Allman Brothers Band, whilst not outright heavy metal, can stand up with other American rock troups of the era like Aerosmith and Montrose, and the influence of these southern rock bands can be heard in the 'hair'/ 'LA metal' bands of the '80s, and the 'blues rock revival' bands of the late 80s.

That's all I can think of now...if I can think of any more proto metal bands, I'll add them...

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 14 2005 at 03:48

People often get confused between the terms Hard Rock, Heavy Rock, Heavy Metal - and a whole raft of other terms, and the period of Metal's development from 1971-1975 does nothing to help matters.

The terms are widely used interchangeably to describe bands such as Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin and even Black Sabbath - and all are correct.

The term "Heavy" to describe music orignated in the late 1960s as I said earlier, to distinguish the bands playing music of a darker mood from the lighter bands - especially those that typified the "flower power" sound. "Rock" is a catch-all for all music that originated from Rock'n'Roll, although I think it would be more accurate to say that heavy music had it's origins more firmly in the blues, and the lighter music had it's roots in folk.

Led Zeppelin and Deep Purple were wonderful anomalies, with Zep drawing on both folk and the blues, and Purple drawing unusually on classical music - almost eschewing the blues in favour of rock and roll. Both bands were also borderline prog with their experimental approaches, but on the whole kept themselves firmly in the rock category. The progressiveness and experimental tendencies were probably part of the zeitgeist created by "proper" prog rock bands.

"Hard Rock" is more of a radio term, and doesn't seem to mean very much in and of itself, but as a generalisation, we can consider the bands with a heavy style and a tendency towards a major tonality and with lyrics that were more preoccupied with love/sex to fit this style.

Glam Rock also became popular in the 1971-5 period, with the likes of Marc Bolan and David Bowie, and culmimating in bands such as The Sweet. Glam was typically more romantic, although there was always a tinge of aggression. The Sweet added to the aggression with their "bad boy" attitudes in songs like "Hellraiser", "Ballroom Blitz" and "Blockbuster".

"Metal" is hard to define in this period; There were bands like Uriah Heep, with their prog-rock leanings lyrical content that ranged from love ("Sweet Lorraine") to fantasy ("The Magician's Birthday", "July Morning"). Heep's early material acknowledged the heaviness of the music ("Very 'Eavy, Very 'Umble"), but the overall sound tended towards a major key tonality.

There were a large number of developing American bands around this time; Alice Cooper, signed by Frank Zappa, who had a "heavy metal" sound as early as 1971 presumably based his OTT theatricals on the Crazy World of Arthur Brown and the sound on The New York Dolls, and later Kiss (1973) who would take theatricals to new levels. Also inspired by the NYD and the Rolling Stones, Aerosmith were another major player in the development of metal from the US, with the notable ability to produce both diamond hard ballads as well as hard-rockin' choons with huge riffs and dramatic changes. "Toys in the Attic" (1975) contains fantastic examples of their brutal riffs.

Other major players/albums that shouldn't be overlooked were Frank Marino and Mahogany Rush (Maxoom - 1973) - Frank is notably a man often cited by Steve Vai as an influence, Ronnie Montrose (Montrose - 1973, particularly notable for "Bad Motor Scooter" and "Space Station #5"), Rush (Fly By Night - 1975) and Blue Oyster Cult (Tyranny and Mutation - 1973).

Back in the UK, the Blues and psychedelia were still propelling two major underground players; The Groundhogs (recommended album : "Split") and The Pink Fairies (recommended album "Kings Of Oblivion"). The latter are especially important for their role in defining the Motorhead sound.

Of course, these are still generalisations, and many of these bands went on to redefine their styles later in the 1970s, again in the 1980s and yet again in the 1990s.

The next phase of Heavy Metal is 1975-1979, but the borderlines are very hazy - which is why this period follows on from 1971-1975.

The reasons for this are two bands/albums: "On Parole" by Motorhead, which was posthumously released due to a frightened record company, and "Stained Class" by Judas Priest - both of which are almost unarguably pure heavy metal, but both in very different styles.

Also worth mentioning are a quirky band formed by two Scottish brothers based in Australia, with Glam rocker Dave Evans on vocals. They released a lecherous song called "Can I Sit Next To You Girl", but Evans refused to go on stage, so was replaced by the band's chauffeur. Depite their Australian base, this band of bad boys with a wild sense of humour, whose music was unquestionably based in the blues but with the musical focus on the huge riffs and blues guitar, and lyrical content based on sleaze, would go on to be a major player in the NWOBHM, around 1979.

Any serious ommissions?

 

I've just thought of one that should have been in the 1967-1970 discussion;

Ten Years After - their contribution to the genre is both legendary and unquestionable - the Woodstock performance being a prime example. Recommended album "Ssssh".

...and Iron Butterfly I guess are kind of proto-metal - although the lyrical content is all wrong. I know Slayer covered "In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida", but then Voivod covered "Astronomy Domine". I wo't make any judgements here, as I can hear the potential for metal in "AD", but far more so in "Careful with that Axe, Eugene". I'm similarly not convinced by Vanilla Fudge, although the lugubrious nature of their interpretations of popular songs certainly resembles Sabbath at their most lumbering.



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2005 at 23:04
Just on a side note,I have seen the band Sieges Even mentioned a few times in this thread and a few others on this forum.Read their biography here and sampled some MP3's.My god!!!!I cannot believe I never heard of them before.What a great band.Being a drummer myself I was really impressed with the drumming and bass playing.Gonna run to my local hole in the wall cd store tomorrow and try to find their cd's.Thanks guys.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2005 at 17:31

That's why I wondered why you thought Megadeth were a spin-off from Metallica - Mustaine clearly has his own style which is so strong that when he left/was booted from the band, the personality he put into Metallica left with him - which is largely why "Kill 'Em All" is so very different to "Ride The Lightning" IMO.

Megadeth's early material is so strong that I would hesitate to describe them as a spin-off, as that conjoures up images of a somehow lesser band. "Killing is My Business..." may be less consistent than "Kill 'Em All", but the emotions on the sleeve type response to Mustaine's being kicked out of Metallica is fascinating, and where the music is good, it kicks major ass, as they say - it's far more progressive in outlook than Metallica were at that stage in their careers.

Mustaine only appears on "Kill 'Em All" as joint songwriter on some songs. He was originally drafted in by Ulrich, who pretended he had a band in order to form one with James Hetfield in 1981. I believe that the posthumously released "Whiplash" EP features the original bassist Ron McGoveney playing bass - need to check.

Mustaine's heroin addiction was the reason for his sacking, AFAIK - a real pity given the man's obvious talent, but it's true to say that Metallica were supportive of Mustaine's band - or vice versa... I last saw Metallica in 1991 at the Milton Keynes bowl, with Diamond Head opening, then The Almighty and then Megadeth before Metallica hit the stage. Blindin' gig (I have a boot somewhere...)

I'm not sure why McGoveney was replaced - lack of talent, some cruel people might say. Burton was press-ganged from a support act called Trauma, and, while well-suited to Metallica, was not really the bass axe-hero many made him out to be. He was just damned good at his job, and liked to give a little flash every now and again. Not the Stanley Clarke of metal by any stretch...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2005 at 16:01
Yes, you are correct Mike. I remember reading an interview with Mustaine where he listed the seminal thrash bands such as Megadeth, Metallica, Anthrax, etc. and says he always considered Metallica (even after he left) as still being his schizophrenic other musical personality, whatever that means.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2005 at 15:58
Originally posted by Certif1ed Certif1ed wrote:

It's got better production than Toxicity - it makes the latter sound somewhat boxy by comparison. The songwriting isn't quite as strong, IMO, but there are some really great moments of SOAD style harmonies, an even stronger strong satirical edge to the lyrics and all the contrasts you'd expect. Some of it is a bit cheesey, the non-metal moments seem a bit amateurish somehow and "more of the same" - I'd like to see more development from this band. I didn't buy "Steal This Album", and I feel in no hurry to plug the gap. That said, it's definitely a new SOAD album, with all the ingredients you'd expect, and worth buying if you liked any of their other releases more than just a bit.

/end mini-review

I guess that's the Rage Against The Machine effect ... I must say that I prefer bands who really try to move on in new directions, like Queens of the Stone Age for example. 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2005 at 15:56

As I recall it, Mustaine left Metallica shortly before they became famous with Kill 'em All. I don't know for sure, must have been approximately 8 years old at the time.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2005 at 15:48

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

I said that in another thread, too, and was brutally bashed for it.

I've been mobbed for saying similar things too - but I don't mind a pasting - hopefully I give as good (if not a little better) as/than I get...

Metallica were THE big band that slammed the door to the NWOBHM and played something completely different. There were other, smaller bands that were different, of course ... Megadeth for once (a spin off if you will).

Megadeth a spin off???

System Of A Down is great. Their first record is very experimental, Toxicity is more brutal, and Mesmerize ... i haven't heard it yet.

It's got better production than Toxicity - it makes the latter sound somewhat boxy by comparison. The songwriting isn't quite as strong, IMO, but there are some really great moments of SOAD style harmonies, an even stronger strong satirical edge to the lyrics and all the contrasts you'd expect. Some of it is a bit cheesey, the non-metal moments seem a bit amateurish somehow and "more of the same" - I'd like to see more development from this band. I didn't buy "Steal This Album", and I feel in no hurry to plug the gap. That said, it's definitely a new SOAD album, with all the ingredients you'd expect, and worth buying if you liked any of their other releases more than just a bit.

/end mini-review

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2005 at 15:37
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by Certif1ed Certif1ed wrote:


Ironically, I think that Metallica were the band that also revitalised and reinvented metal - at least twice.


"Kill 'Em All" was unlike any metal before it (except the bands that didn't really make it like Metal Church et al), and "Ride The Lightning" even more so. It's still an incredibly heavy album, with obvious roots in Black Sabbath (liberal use of tritones in the riffs - particularly "For Whom The Bell Tolls").Anyway, never mind that - their contribution to metal is only surpassed by Sabbath, IMO.


And what's wrong with System of a Down? I love their Eastern-European style harmonies, great lead vocals and mad mood shifts. Who cares if they're popular? The single "Chop Suey" is genius in its insanity, "Toxicity"'s a great album, and "Mesmerize" is fun, if you don't already own "Toxicity".



I said that in another thread, too, and was brutally bashed for it. Metallica were THE big band that slammed the door to the NWOBHM and played something completely different. There were other, smaller bands that were different, of course ... Megadeth for once (a spin off if you will).


System Of A Down is great. Their first record is very experimental, Toxicity is more brutal, and Mesmerize ... i haven't heard it yet.



"The Kabuko(sp?) mushroom people..."

Man, System Of A Down is one of the only popular modern bands I really dig a lot.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2005 at 15:34
Originally posted by Certif1ed Certif1ed wrote:

Ironically, I think that Metallica were the band that also revitalised and reinvented metal - at least twice.

"Kill 'Em All" was unlike any metal before it (except the bands that didn't really make it like Metal Church et al), and "Ride The Lightning" even more so. It's still an incredibly heavy album, with obvious roots in Black Sabbath (liberal use of tritones in the riffs - particularly "For Whom The Bell Tolls").Anyway, never mind that - their contribution to metal is only surpassed by Sabbath, IMO.

And what's wrong with System of a Down? I love their Eastern-European style harmonies, great lead vocals and mad mood shifts. Who cares if they're popular? The single "Chop Suey" is genius in its insanity, "Toxicity"'s a great album, and "Mesmerize" is fun, if you don't already own "Toxicity".

I said that in another thread, too, and was brutally bashed for it. Metallica were THE big band that slammed the door to the NWOBHM and played something completely different. There were other, smaller bands that were different, of course ... Megadeth for once (a spin off if you will).

System Of A Down is great. Their first record is very experimental, Toxicity is more brutal, and Mesmerize ... i haven't heard it yet.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2005 at 15:31
Originally posted by milla milla wrote:

How about a Pre Metal category - bands who are not really metal but were an influence on the genre? It could include:

Jimi Hendrix
Cream

The Who
Dick Dale
Link Wray (Rumble)
Kingsmen (Louie Louie)
The Troggs (Wild Thing)
The Kinks (You Really Got Me, All Day And All of the Night)






Interesting you should mention the Kinks. My father (a huge fan of the "dirtier" sounding British Invasion bands such as the Kinks, Stones, Who, Animals, etc.) and I were having a musical discussion the other night, and we came to the conclusion that "You Really Got Me" just might have been the first true "heavy metal" song of all time. He said that that guitar sound was absolutely shocking and radical at the time, and he had never heard anything remotely like it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2005 at 15:25

Ironically, I think that Metallica were the band that also revitalised and reinvented metal - at least twice.

"Kill 'Em All" was unlike any metal before it (except the bands that didn't really make it like Metal Church et al), and "Ride The Lightning" even more so. It's still an incredibly heavy album, with obvious roots in Black Sabbath (liberal use of tritones in the riffs - particularly "For Whom The Bell Tolls").

"Kill 'Em All" had influences from all over - but with a unique sound, albeit with slightly tinny production; Motorhead and Hawkwind stand out a mile, as do Priest.

"Master Of Puppets" was the world destroyer, though. While other thrash bands jumped onto the bandwagon - many with unique interpretations of the genre - "Master..." is practically a prog metal album with it's broad pallette of sounds and textures - but with the thrust still in the realms of thrash.

I use thrash as a meaningful cover-all term for bands that used the thrashing technique. Metallica, at this stage, were anxious to lose the branding, as it suggested something much simpler than the way they perceived themselves.

"...And Justice For All" was the result of Metallica rejecting the thrash label outright - but it still contains many thrash passages, and along with "Master..." remains a core influence on many progressive metal bands when they venture into thrash territory.

Death are probably the surprise long-lasting influence of that outpouring of thrash, since their style has evolved entire subgenres under the Death Metal umbrella, with Chuck's trademark grunts practically staple for many of the darker metal bands. And where would the entire Black Metal culture be without Venom? That "talentless" trio of Geordies had a massive impact that many strands of metal is still in the grips of.

Slayer created two of the most monumental albums in metal - "Reign in Blood" and "South Of Heaven", and again, the Black Sabbath influence is strongly present, but Slayer's style still seems to be peculiar to them.

Metallica revolutionised metal one more time with their self-titled album. The impressive wall of sound riffs are still a benchmark and have yet to be actually surpassed in terms of raw power. Sure others have produced mind-bogglingly heavy riffs and soundscapes, but I think that only Rammstein have come close to beating Metallica at the heavy game (with "Sonne" on the "Mutter" album).

In all of the development of thrash (convenient term only, remember!), it seems to me that it's probably as much the sound engineer's production as the actual music that has shaped metal to be how it is now - and the underlying metal sound has changed little since 1991. Less boxy, maybe, more brittle, certainly, but the developments of recent years have been in no way as significant as the changes Metallica brought about before they started thinking they were better than they actually were - probably the effect of all that money.

"Load"? Load of tosh if you ask me.

And what's with the hypocritical attitudes?

Anyway, never mind that - their contribution to metal is only surpassed by Sabbath, IMO.

And what's wrong with System of a Down? I love their Eastern-European style harmonies, great lead vocals and mad mood shifts. Who cares if they're popular? The single "Chop Suey" is genius in its insanity, "Toxicity"'s a great album, and "Mesmerize" is fun, if you don't already own "Toxicity".



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2005 at 15:11

Originally posted by Hammill Hammill wrote:

my friend, i personally believe that nevermore's two first albums (nevermore and politics of ecstacy) are masterpieces. i didn't like the albums they recorded after politics of ecstacy. they modernized their sound a lot. morever i prefer warrel's previous band sanctuary and their two us power metal masterpieces, into the mirror black and refuge denied. 

Sanctuary were great ... I liked their version of White Rabbit, and tracks like Communion, Epitaph and Seasons Of Destruction are simply awesome.

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Joined: June 09 2005
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2005 at 14:34
my friend, i personally believe that nevermore's two first albums (nevermore and politics of ecstacy) are masterpieces. i didn't like the albums they recorded after politics of ecstacy. they modernized their sound a lot. morever i prefer warrel's previous band sanctuary and their two us power metal masterpieces, into the mirror black and refuge denied. 
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