To me there are the following stages in the history of Metal:

- FWOHM: First Wave Of Heavy Metal, starts with Hendrix as a pioneer of the Heavy Metal guitar sound, first real Heavy Metal bands emerge in in the early 70s: Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple, Black Sabbath, Judas Priest, Scorpions

- NWOBHM: New Wave Of British Heavy Metal: Bands like Iron Maiden, Motorhead, Judas Priest etc. start to modify the initial Heavy Metal sound in the late 70s

- American Metal: Van Halen emerges in 1978 and introduces a form of Party Metal, which is basically Rock & Blues with a Metal guitar sound and a new kind of guitar solos (later to be dubbed "shred").

- European Metal: Bands like the Scorpions (post-Roth), Accept etc. define a new, riff-oriented Metal sound in the late 70s

- Bay Area Metal / Early Thrash Metal: Metallica and Megadeth explore a new level of "Heavyness" in 83/84.

- Hair Metal: The Van Halen Party Metal leads to bands like Motley Crüe, Poison etc.

- Early Progressive Metal/ Power Metal: Bands like Fates Warning and Queensryche are influenced by Metallica etc., but use elements of 70s Progressive Rock to create more sophisticated, epic/symphonic songs, culminating in Queensryche's Operation: Mindcrime. That phase starts 85/86.

- Peak of the Party/American Metal: in the late 80s, bands like Guns 'n Roses, Aerosmith and Whitesnake have huge commercial success with their HArd Rock combined with ultra heavy guitars & solos.

- Shred: Guitar Virtuosos like Steve Vai, Joe Satriani and Eric Johnson adopt the highly distorted guitar sound and create highly sophisticated albums of interesting music, yet not really commercially sucessful.

- Thrash Metal: Metallica's ...And Justice For All and Megadeth's Rust In Peace set the roots in the late 80s for a new generation of Thrash Metal bands (Anthrax, Death Angel, ...).

- Progressive Metal: In the early 90s Dream Theater enter the stage and define Progressive Metal with the release of Images And Words. Throughout the 90s, that genre is expanded by other great bands like Pain Of Salvation, Shadow Gallery, Symphony X, Threshold, Opeth etc. that lead to a similar situation like Progressive Rock faced in the 70s: Many great bands are all associated with one label, yet their musical style is totally different.

- Death/Black/Math/Hardcore/Emocore/... subgenres emerge throughout the 90s, not unsimilar to the subgenres of Progressive Rock which emerged in the 70s (Krautrock, Zheul, ...).

- Power Metal: An interesting subgenre of Metal (also emerging throughout the 90s), which is often combined with elements of Progressive Metal. Bands like Blind Guardian, Avantasia and Rhapsody use classical elements to create Metal symphonies.

This is the metal world as I see it. If you find an error, please tell me ... I'm not an expert on the early stages of metal!

Well the first Judas Priest album was in 1974 (Rocka Rolla) so is really the second wave with Early Rush,AC/DC,Budgie,Motorhead,Lizzy,Lynyrd Skynyrd,ZZ Top and UFO et al.

Rush's influence on Progressive metal should not be under-estimated.

NWOBHM:Maiden,Saxon,Def leppard,Tygers of pan tang,Diamond Head,Preying Mantis,Girlschool.......

Not to mention where the likes of Cheap trick,Ted Nugent,Rainbow,Whitesnake, and Journey come in.

Tony R wrote: Well the first Judas Priest album was in 1974 (Rocka Rolla) so is really the second wave with Early Rush,AC/DC,Budgie,Motorhead,Lizzy,Lynyrd Skynyrd,ZZ Top and UFO et al. Rush's influence on Progressive metal should not be under-estimated. NWOBHM:Maiden,Saxon,Def leppard,Tygers of pan tang,Diamond Head,Preying Mantis,Girlschool....... Not to mention where the likes of Cheap trick,Ted Nugent,Rainbow,Whitesnake, and Journey come in.

I forgot to mention: I cannot list every single band. Do you really think that Rocka Rolla was part of the NWOBHM?

Journey is a tough one ... don't know where they fit in. Whitesnake is Blues Rock, Ted Nugent also seems more like Rock to me. And even you forgot some bands, most of all Kiss.

Could you post bands that I forget and which aren't properly addressed by my categories, together with the genre that you would associate them with?

MikeEnRegalia wrote: To me there are the following stages in the history of Metal: - Thrash Metal: Metallica's ...And Justice For All and Megadeth's Rust In Peace set the roots in the late 80s for a new generation of Thrash Metal bands (Anthrax, Death Angel, ...).

I was a huge fan of Thrash as a teenager in the early 80's and I disagree with this Mike.Anthrax was one of the founding fathers of thrash along with Metallica,Megadeth,Slayer,Exodus and S.O.D.Metallica and Megadeth definitely did not pave the way for them.These bands paved the way for a new generation of thrash bands such as Testament,Nuclear Assualt,Overkill,Brutal Truth,Sacred Reich,Flotsam and Jetsom and the like.

TheProgtologist wrote: MikeEnRegalia wrote: To me there are the following stages in the history of Metal: - Thrash Metal: Metallica's ...And Justice For All and Megadeth's Rust In Peace set the roots in the late 80s for a new generation of Thrash Metal bands (Anthrax, Death Angel, ...).   I was a huge fan of Thrash as a teenager in the early 80's and I disagree with this Mike.Anthrax was one of the founding fathers of thrash along with Metallica,Megadeth,Slayer,Exodus and S.O.D.Metallica and Megadeth definitely did not pave the way for them.These bands paved the way for a new generation of thrash bands such as Testament,Nuclear Assualt,Overkill,Brutal Truth,Sacred Reich,Flotsam and Jetsom and the like.

You're right in that bands like Anthrax were founded in the early 80s along with Metallica and Megadeth. But in retrospect, Metallica and Megadeth were most successful both commercially and in their influence on other bands. They are mentioned more often by other artists. But I completely agree that Slayer kind of stands out as a pioneer of high speed Thrash Metal, which influenced a lot of bands in Death Metal or extreme Thrah Bands like Death.

TheProgtologist wrote: Manowar was NOT a thrash band

But they're the kings dammit!

They're TRUE METAL!!!

MikeEnRegalia wrote: Tony R wrote: Well the first Judas Priest album was in 1974 (Rocka Rolla) so is really the second wave with Early Rush,AC/DC,Budgie,Motorhead,Lizzy,Lynyrd Skynyrd,ZZ Top and UFO et al. Rush's influence on Progressive metal should not be under-estimated. NWOBHM:Maiden,Saxon,Def leppard,Tygers of pan tang,Diamond Head,Preying Mantis,Girlschool....... Not to mention where the likes of Cheap trick,Ted Nugent,Rainbow,Whitesnake, and Journey come in. I forgot to mention: I cannot list every single band. Do you really think that Rocka Rolla was part of the NWOBHM? Journey is a tough one ... don't know where they fit in. Whitesnake is Blues Rock, Ted Nugent also seems more like Rock to me. And even you forgot some bands, most of all Kiss. Could you post bands that I forget and which aren't properly addressed by my categories, together with the genre that you would associate them with?

No,I'm not suggesting Rock Rolla was part of the NWOBHM.What I feel is that, like any other major musical genre,there was the first wave (of originators and stylistic instigators) followed by the "second wave" in which I include Judas Priest.

The NWOBHM was an 80's phenomena comprised of bands like Maiden (who admit to dabbling with punk in the late 70s) who,backed by "Sounds" music paper (and particularly,Geoff Barton) brought about a rekindling of (mainstream) interest in Heavy metal after the punk onslaught.

In terms of "labelling" as far as I am aware (having been part of the scene since @1972) "Heavy Metal", "Heavy Rock" and "Hard Rock" were pretty much arbitary and interchangeable.

Hence Ted Nugent could be labelled under any of them,although personally I associate Heavy Metal with the Black Sabbath style.
My gut instinct is that Whitesnake,Ted Nugent,Journey and Kiss would come under the totally arbitary and unsatisfactory label of "hard rock".

Any such pigeon-holing is with the benefit of hindsight,I'm not so sure there was the kind of discussion around at the time,that we apply to the progressive rock genres.

Tony R wrote: Hence Ted Nugent could be labelled under any of them,although personally I associate Heavy Metal with the Black Sabbath style. My gut instinct is that Whitesnake,Ted Nugent,Journey and Kiss would come under the totally arbitary and unsatisfactory label of "hard rock". Any such pigeon-holing is with the benefit of hindsight,I'm not so sure there was the kind of discussion around at the time,that we apply to the progressive rock genres.

For most bands you also have to take into account different phases they had. For Whitesnake for example, the sound totally changed with 1987. Pre-1987 was Blues Rock (Or a bluesy kind of Heavy Rock, with similarities to Rainbow), starting with 1987 they took a turn towards modern metal (sound-wise).

Valarius wrote: TheProgtologist wrote: Manowar was NOT a thrash band But they're the kings dammit! They're TRUE METAL!!!

I agree ... how would you define True Metal? I'm not into Manowar at all, but that's really just a matter of personal taste (Manowar is a polarizing band). Tell me how they fit in and who their peers were, and I'll edit True Metal into my post.

bakerstreetmuse wrote: I think you may have underestimated the influence of some other American bands in your First Wave. What about MC5, The Stooges, Quicksilver Messenger Service, Moby Grape?

To be honest: I never heard of them. I think they are not very popular in Europe, at least they did not leave the impression that bands like Zeppelin or Purple did.

I don't feel that Moby Grape or Quicksilver Messenger Service are heavy metal at all; rather they are two of the great psychedelic groups of all time. Moby Grape peddle a kind of sunshine pop-rock akin to Love or The Byrds (if that helps) and Quicksilver are often considered to be like The Grateful Dead as both bands tended to play lengthy improvised jams on stage.

At the time, MC5 and The Stooges tended to be considered 'heavy metal', judging by articles I've read from the era, but now they could be seen more accurately as both extensions of the '60s garage rock boom and precursors to the punk boom of the mid-70s.

Judas Priest aren't really part of the 'FWOHM' in my opinion, although they formed in 1969, they didn't record their first album until 1974, and didn't perfect their sound until 1976- a few years before the 'NWOBHM' but a long time after the 'FWOHM' also. Thus, as Tony R said, they deserve a 'second wave' marker.

Journey are to me nothing like heavy metal; they are a great AOR band but rarely get particularly heavy. The same with Cheap Trick- though a little heavier than Journey, they are far more melodic than your average metal band.

Whitesnake were arguably one of the first of those 'blues rock revival' bands, and could be seen as the forerunners to the likes of Thunder, The Quireboys and Dogs D'Amour.

To your list, I would add a 'pomp rock' category: bands such as Uriah Heep, Kansas, Styx, Queen and Magnum are amongst the biggest selling bands in the world, yet don't easily fit any of the descriptions laid out already. More modern bands that display this style are Muse and The Darkness.

salmacis wrote: To your list, I would add a 'pomp rock' category: bands such as Uriah Heep, Kansas, Styx, Queen and Magnum are amongst the biggest selling bands in the world, yet don't easily fit any of the descriptions laid out already. More modern bands that display this style are Muse and The Darkness.

I think they don't really fit the term "metal", in fact Heep, Kansas and Styx are often referred to as Prog Rock (in this forum).

I agree on Judas Priest, should be filed under NWOBHM.

MikeEnRegalia wrote: salmacis wrote: To your list, I would add a 'pomp rock' category: bands such as Uriah Heep, Kansas, Styx, Queen and Magnum are amongst the biggest selling bands in the world, yet don't easily fit any of the descriptions laid out already. More modern bands that display this style are Muse and The Darkness. I think they don't really fit the term "metal", in fact Heep, Kansas and Styx are often referred to as Prog Rock (in this forum). I agree on Judas Priest, should be filed under NWOBHM.

No,Salmacis agrees with me,Mike!

milla wrote: How about a Pre Metal category - bands who are not really metal but were an influence on the genre? It could include: Jimi Hendrix Cream The Who Dick Dale Link Wray (Rumble) Kingsmen (Louie Louie) The Troggs (Wild Thing) The Kinks (You Really Got Me, All Day And All of the Night)

Good list.

I wonder why everyone seems to overlook Blue Cheer?

They were the founding fathers of both heavy metal and grunge - although I'd agree it's quite hard to fathom through the rampant noise that is "Vincebus Eruptum". To me it's utterly inspired, and the seed for metal and grunge, but many people I've played it to just hear an incompetent psychedelic band with amps pushed up to 11.

Both opinions are right IMO.

The Blues+psychedelia combination was the propellant for heavy metal - the "heavy" bands were the ones who didn't sing about peace and love, and went for dark rather than light sounds.

Hence Hendrix, Cream, Yardbirds, Savoy Brown and Traffic can all be considered major influences on the development of metal.

The most important band, I would suggest (if only for one album) is Spooky Tooth. "Spooky Two" is so obviously an influence on Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin and Judas Priest (who covered a song from this very album - "Better By You, Better Than Me"), that I think of it as a foundation stone in progressive rock music. Even the first Yes album has a similar sound - although I'm not too sure which predates which.

The period 1969-1970 is quite incredible for metal, as heavy blues bands developed the grinding riff structures that we still associate with metal - and the Vertigo label acquired many bands that many retrospectively view as metal; May Blitz, Black Sabbath et al - possibly even Colosseum could be heard as the early part of the first wave.

What typified the sound was the high levels of distortion on the guitars, the "headbanging" riffs, the typically high vocals, which, largely thanks to Ian Gillan would end up as screams, the big drum sound and the wailing guitar solos.

Typically, the music would not enter a major key but more often than not, as the genre progressed, actual key was ambiguous, as the preference for barred "power" chords that left out the third became prevalent in metal music. Thirds tended to be used for effect rather than to establish a major or minor tonality, and the music ended up sounding oddly modal and threatening.

Lyrically, we would not hear many songs about love, instead there were pre-occupations with drug-taking, cult membership and an apparently negative pessimistic view of life. Devotees of the music often say that it's more a realistic view than the lyrics of typical "pop music" recordings.

This fascination with cults and even the occult made a lot of people very worried when metal was in its infancy, and the genre has pretty much existed "underground" or outside of the mainstream until around 1991, when Metallica's self-titled album suddenly made metal hip - and it's never been out of the charts since, especially in the trendier form of "Nu-metal".

Anyway, that's skipping several generations.

I haven't really got time to go any further, as there are work-related things I should be doing... but as a race-through of the birth of metal (1966-1970) - any comments?

Yeah 'Spooky Two' is an incredible album- one of the best rock albums ever, and I reckon Spooky Tooth have a claim to being on the site as if Traffic are here, to me Spooky Tooth should be- they are a heavier version of Traffic.

1966-70 metal...hmmm....not really sure if there was much from that era you could call outright metal as such, yet has anyone mentioned Jeff Beck's first few albums 'Truth' and 'Beckola' that had Rod Stewart on vocals? Both are very heavy for 1968, and 'Truth' pre-empted Led Zeppelin's albums.

Iron Butterfly, in a sense, were heavy metal, as were Vanilla Fudge, as both did souped up heavy rock with lots of organ and guitar solos, with bombastic vocals. At first, Deep Purple were very much in the Vanilla Fudge mode as well.

Grand Funk Railroad formed in 1968, and were very heavy for the era too- they are often said to be one of the forefathers of grunge/metal.

Cream were an influence of pretty much every heavy rock band during the 1970s, in fact Eric Clapton has gone on record as saying 'we were the first heavy metal band....when we split Led Zeppelin filled the void'.

Mountain were a very similar band to Cream too, with massive, sludgy guitar riffs and thunderous bass playing.

Steppenwolf, lest we forget, were probably the first band to use the phrase 'heavy metal' in their classic 'Born To Be Wild', which is a great early metal song.

MikeEnRegalia wrote: Valarius wrote: TheProgtologist wrote: Manowar was NOT a thrash band But they're the kings dammit! They're TRUE METAL!!! I agree ... how would you define True Metal? I'm not into Manowar at all, but that's really just a matter of personal taste (Manowar is a polarizing band). Tell me how they fit in and who their peers were, and I'll edit True Metal into my post.

They don't have any peers. They're in a cheese-infested league of their own. There is nobody more truer metal than Manowar.

salmacis wrote: Steppenwolf, lest we forget, were probably the first band to use the phrase 'heavy metal' in their classic 'Born To Be Wild', which is a great early metal song.

I think that Born To Be Wild and Paranoid go hand in hand.

Hammill wrote: moreover i really have to mention that heavy metal in our days is dead. groups like rhaposdy, nightwish, pantera, system of a down, rage against the machine and many more disgraced the heavy metal sound. yes i know i am just another heavy metal close minded fan, but i don't care, if rage against the machine and system of a down  are progress then george bush is a fighter for peace. as manowar used to say: heavy metal or no metal at all.

Metallica killed the True Metal star

Hammill wrote: MikeEnRegalia wrote: Hammill wrote: moreover i really have to mention that heavy metal in our days is dead. groups like rhaposdy, nightwish, pantera, system of a down, rage against the machine and many more disgraced the heavy metal sound. yes i know i am just another heavy metal close minded fan, but i don't care, if rage against the machine and system of a down  are progress then george bush is a fighter for peace. as manowar used to say: heavy metal or no metal at all. Metallica killed the True Metal star metallica was also another band that killed the heavy metal sound. one nice sunday morning back in 1990 they woke up and they thought: hey why don't we become progressive? we are big boys, we can't play heavy metal any more, we are intellectual now, and they recorded the crap called black album which changed everything. it wasn't only metallica's fault, sepultura with chaos ad and roots gave birth to the nu metal trend. millions of groups followed their style (slipknot, korn, limp bizkit etc). nu metal is even worse than grunge( early 90s-mid 90s)  and punk (although there were 2-3 good punk bands). anyway life  goes on and it is really sad that heavy metal was killed by some rockers with big trousers. heavy metal r.i.p. Support the underground if you want metal back!

It does live on, in bands like Nevermore.

Hammill wrote: my friend, i personally believe that nevermore's two first albums (nevermore and politics of ecstacy) are masterpieces. i didn't like the albums they recorded after politics of ecstacy. they modernized their sound a lot. morever i prefer warrel's previous band sanctuary and their two us power metal masterpieces, into the mirror black and refuge denied.

Sanctuary were great ... I liked their version of White Rabbit, and tracks like Communion, Epitaph and Seasons Of Destruction are simply awesome.

Ironically, I think that Metallica were the band that also revitalised and reinvented metal - at least twice.

"Kill 'Em All" was unlike any metal before it (except the bands that didn't really make it like Metal Church et al), and "Ride The Lightning" even more so. It's still an incredibly heavy album, with obvious roots in Black Sabbath (liberal use of tritones in the riffs - particularly "For Whom The Bell Tolls").

"Kill 'Em All" had influences from all over - but with a unique sound, albeit with slightly tinny production; Motorhead and Hawkwind stand out a mile, as do Priest.

"Master Of Puppets" was the world destroyer, though. While other thrash bands jumped onto the bandwagon - many with unique interpretations of the genre - "Master..." is practically a prog metal album with it's broad pallette of sounds and textures - but with the thrust still in the realms of thrash.

I use thrash as a meaningful cover-all term for bands that used the thrashing technique. Metallica, at this stage, were anxious to lose the branding, as it suggested something much simpler than the way they perceived themselves.

"...And Justice For All" was the result of Metallica rejecting the thrash label outright - but it still contains many thrash passages, and along with "Master..." remains a core influence on many progressive metal bands when they venture into thrash territory.

Death are probably the surprise long-lasting influence of that outpouring of thrash, since their style has evolved entire subgenres under the Death Metal umbrella, with Chuck's trademark grunts practically staple for many of the darker metal bands. And where would the entire Black Metal culture be without Venom? That "talentless" trio of Geordies had a massive impact that many strands of metal is still in the grips of.

Slayer created two of the most monumental albums in metal - "Reign in Blood" and "South Of Heaven", and again, the Black Sabbath influence is strongly present, but Slayer's style still seems to be peculiar to them.

Metallica revolutionised metal one more time with their self-titled album. The impressive wall of sound riffs are still a benchmark and have yet to be actually surpassed in terms of raw power. Sure others have produced mind-bogglingly heavy riffs and soundscapes, but I think that only Rammstein have come close to beating Metallica at the heavy game (with "Sonne" on the "Mutter" album).

In all of the development of thrash (convenient term only, remember!), it seems to me that it's probably as much the sound engineer's production as the actual music that has shaped metal to be how it is now - and the underlying metal sound has changed little since 1991. Less boxy, maybe, more brittle, certainly, but the developments of recent years have been in no way as significant as the changes Metallica brought about before they started thinking they were better than they actually were - probably the effect of all that money.

"Load"? Load of tosh if you ask me.

And what's with the hypocritical attitudes?

Anyway, never mind that - their contribution to metal is only surpassed by Sabbath, IMO.

And what's wrong with System of a Down? I love their Eastern-European style harmonies, great lead vocals and mad mood shifts. Who cares if they're popular? The single "Chop Suey" is genius in its insanity, "Toxicity"'s a great album, and "Mesmerize" is fun, if you don't already own "Toxicity".

Certif1ed wrote: Ironically, I think that Metallica were the band that also revitalised and reinvented metal - at least twice. "Kill 'Em All" was unlike any metal before it (except the bands that didn't really make it like Metal Church et al), and "Ride The Lightning" even more so. It's still an incredibly heavy album, with obvious roots in Black Sabbath (liberal use of tritones in the riffs - particularly "For Whom The Bell Tolls").Anyway, never mind that - their contribution to metal is only surpassed by Sabbath, IMO. And what's wrong with System of a Down? I love their Eastern-European style harmonies, great lead vocals and mad mood shifts. Who cares if they're popular? The single "Chop Suey" is genius in its insanity, "Toxicity"'s a great album, and "Mesmerize" is fun, if you don't already own "Toxicity".

I said that in another thread, too, and was brutally bashed for it. Metallica were THE big band that slammed the door to the NWOBHM and played something completely different. There were other, smaller bands that were different, of course ... Megadeth for once (a spin off if you will).

System Of A Down is great. Their first record is very experimental, Toxicity is more brutal, and Mesmerize ... i haven't heard it yet.

As I recall it, Mustaine left Metallica shortly before they became famous with Kill 'em All. I don't know for sure, must have been approximately 8 years old at the time.

Certif1ed wrote: It's got better production than Toxicity - it makes the latter sound somewhat boxy by comparison. The songwriting isn't quite as strong, IMO, but there are some really great moments of SOAD style harmonies, an even stronger strong satirical edge to the lyrics and all the contrasts you'd expect. Some of it is a bit cheesey, the non-metal moments seem a bit amateurish somehow and "more of the same" - I'd like to see more development from this band. I didn't buy "Steal This Album", and I feel in no hurry to plug the gap. That said, it's definitely a new SOAD album, with all the ingredients you'd expect, and worth buying if you liked any of their other releases more than just a bit. /end mini-review

I guess that's the Rage Against The Machine effect ... I must say that I prefer bands who really try to move on in new directions, like Queens of the Stone Age for example. 

That's why I wondered why you thought Megadeth were a spin-off from Metallica - Mustaine clearly has his own style which is so strong that when he left/was booted from the band, the personality he put into Metallica left with him - which is largely why "Kill 'Em All" is so very different to "Ride The Lightning" IMO.

Megadeth's early material is so strong that I would hesitate to describe them as a spin-off, as that conjoures up images of a somehow lesser band. "Killing is My Business..." may be less consistent than "Kill 'Em All", but the emotions on the sleeve type response to Mustaine's being kicked out of Metallica is fascinating, and where the music is good, it kicks major ass, as they say - it's far more progressive in outlook than Metallica were at that stage in their careers.

Mustaine only appears on "Kill 'Em All" as joint songwriter on some songs. He was originally drafted in by Ulrich, who pretended he had a band in order to form one with James Hetfield in 1981. I believe that the posthumously released "Whiplash" EP features the original bassist Ron McGoveney playing bass - need to check.

Mustaine's heroin addiction was the reason for his sacking, AFAIK - a real pity given the man's obvious talent, but it's true to say that Metallica were supportive of Mustaine's band - or vice versa... I last saw Metallica in 1991 at the Milton Keynes bowl, with Diamond Head opening, then The Almighty and then Megadeth before Metallica hit the stage. Blindin' gig (I have a boot somewhere...)

I'm not sure why McGoveney was replaced - lack of talent, some cruel people might say. Burton was press-ganged from a support act called Trauma, and, while well-suited to Metallica, was not really the bass axe-hero many made him out to be. He was just damned good at his job, and liked to give a little flash every now and again. Not the Stanley Clarke of metal by any stretch...

People often get confused between the terms Hard Rock, Heavy Rock, Heavy Metal - and a whole raft of other terms, and the period of Metal's development from 1971-1975 does nothing to help matters.

The terms are widely used interchangeably to describe bands such as Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin and even Black Sabbath - and all are correct.

The term "Heavy" to describe music orignated in the late 1960s as I said earlier, to distinguish the bands playing music of a darker mood from the lighter bands - especially those that typified the "flower power" sound. "Rock" is a catch-all for all music that originated from Rock'n'Roll, although I think it would be more accurate to say that heavy music had it's origins more firmly in the blues, and the lighter music had it's roots in folk.

Led Zeppelin and Deep Purple were wonderful anomalies, with Zep drawing on both folk and the blues, and Purple drawing unusually on classical music - almost eschewing the blues in favour of rock and roll. Both bands were also borderline prog with their experimental approaches, but on the whole kept themselves firmly in the rock category. The progressiveness and experimental tendencies were probably part of the zeitgeist created by "proper" prog rock bands.

"Hard Rock" is more of a radio term, and doesn't seem to mean very much in and of itself, but as a generalisation, we can consider the bands with a heavy style and a tendency towards a major tonality and with lyrics that were more preoccupied with love/sex to fit this style.

Glam Rock also became popular in the 1971-5 period, with the likes of Marc Bolan and David Bowie, and culmimating in bands such as The Sweet. Glam was typically more romantic, although there was always a tinge of aggression. The Sweet added to the aggression with their "bad boy" attitudes in songs like "Hellraiser", "Ballroom Blitz" and "Blockbuster".

"Metal" is hard to define in this period; There were bands like Uriah Heep, with their prog-rock leanings lyrical content that ranged from love ("Sweet Lorraine") to fantasy ("The Magician's Birthday", "July Morning"). Heep's early material acknowledged the heaviness of the music ("Very 'Eavy, Very 'Umble"), but the overall sound tended towards a major key tonality.

There were a large number of developing American bands around this time; Alice Cooper, signed by Frank Zappa, who had a "heavy metal" sound as early as 1971 presumably based his OTT theatricals on the Crazy World of Arthur Brown and the sound on The New York Dolls, and later Kiss (1973) who would take theatricals to new levels. Also inspired by the NYD and the Rolling Stones, Aerosmith were another major player in the development of metal from the US, with the notable ability to produce both diamond hard ballads as well as hard-rockin' choons with huge riffs and dramatic changes. "Toys in the Attic" (1975) contains fantastic examples of their brutal riffs.

Other major players/albums that shouldn't be overlooked were Frank Marino and Mahogany Rush (Maxoom - 1973) - Frank is notably a man often cited by Steve Vai as an influence, Ronnie Montrose (Montrose - 1973, particularly notable for "Bad Motor Scooter" and "Space Station #5"), Rush (Fly By Night - 1975) and Blue Oyster Cult (Tyranny and Mutation - 1973).

Back in the UK, the Blues and psychedelia were still propelling two major underground players; The Groundhogs (recommended album : "Split") and The Pink Fairies (recommended album "Kings Of Oblivion"). The latter are especially important for their role in defining the Motorhead sound.

Of course, these are still generalisations, and many of these bands went on to redefine their styles later in the 1970s, again in the 1980s and yet again in the 1990s.

The next phase of Heavy Metal is 1975-1979, but the borderlines are very hazy - which is why this period follows on from 1971-1975.

The reasons for this are two bands/albums: "On Parole" by Motorhead, which was posthumously released due to a frightened record company, and "Stained Class" by Judas Priest - both of which are almost unarguably pure heavy metal, but both in very different styles.

Also worth mentioning are a quirky band formed by two Scottish brothers based in Australia, with Glam rocker Dave Evans on vocals. They released a lecherous song called "Can I Sit Next To You Girl", but Evans refused to go on stage, so was replaced by the band's chauffeur. Depite their Australian base, this band of bad boys with a wild sense of humour, whose music was unquestionably based in the blues but with the musical focus on the huge riffs and blues guitar, and lyrical content based on sleaze, would go on to be a major player in the NWOBHM, around 1979.

Any serious ommissions?

I've just thought of one that should have been in the 1967-1970 discussion;

Ten Years After - their contribution to the genre is both legendary and unquestionable - the Woodstock performance being a prime example. Recommended album "Ssssh".

...and Iron Butterfly I guess are kind of proto-metal - although the lyrical content is all wrong. I know Slayer covered "In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida", but then Voivod covered "Astronomy Domine". I wo't make any judgements here, as I can hear the potential for metal in "AD", but far more so in "Careful with that Axe, Eugene". I'm similarly not convinced by Vanilla Fudge, although the lugubrious nature of their interpretations of popular songs certainly resembles Sabbath at their most lumbering.

Ten Years After are a very good group, and if we're on the subject of blues rock being a metal precursor, Taste and Rory Gallagher could be considered forerunners of the metal genre; Taste were one of the last great power trios (the last in my opinion, being Robin Trower's band) that took Cream and Hendrix's lead, making some very heavy blues rock albums.

Rory then had a solo career, which was fantastically consistent without a dud to speak out, and created some of the greatest rock tracks of the 70s that stand up to anything people such as Ted Nugent and Montrose were making during this era.

And whilst mentioning Robin Trower, his 1970s albums with the late great James Dewar (of Stone The Crows- good blues rock band themselves) and Reg Isadore on drums, similarly rock very hard, with riffs like 'Bridge Of Sighs' that can easily be heard in some later metal bands (Personally speaking, the riff from 'Bridge Of Sighs' is a little like 'Seasons In The Abyss' by Slayer to these ears). Indeed- Zakk Wylde of Ozzy Osbourne and (briefly) Guns 'N' Roses, cites Robin Trower as a major influence.

The Groundhogs, who Certif1ed mentioned, were another brilliant power trio, and tracks like 'Cherry Red' and 'Strange Town' would have been some of the heaviest rock out there in the 1970s. For fans of these aforementioned bands, check out a hugely underrated trio called Three Man Army, that made 3 albums and are all (yet haphazardly) compiled on a 2-CD set by Sanctuary called 'Soldiers Of Rock'.

Whilst this may be a strange choice, I reckon Hawkwind were a big influence on metal, and had some brutal riffs such as 'Orgone Accumulator', 'Born To Go' and 'Masters Of The Universe'. They may have had some influence on the sci-fi obsessions of metal bands too, in my opinion, and Hawkwind didn't see themselves as prog rockers- Lemmy once said 'we were never into love and peace' I believe. They were also contemporaries of The Pink Fairies, yet gained more acclaim than the Pink Fairies ever did.

On the subject of The Pink Fairies, they evolved from a good band called The Deviants, who made 3 heavy, Zappa esque rock albums themselves, but are in truth are possibly more psychedelic than heavy rock/metal.

Has anyone mentioned 'southern rock'? Bands like Lynyrd Skynyrd and Allman Brothers Band, whilst not outright heavy metal, can stand up with other American rock troups of the era like Aerosmith and Montrose, and the influence of these southern rock bands can be heard in the 'hair'/ 'LA metal' bands of the '80s, and the 'blues rock revival' bands of the late 80s.

That's all I can think of now...if I can think of any more proto metal bands, I'll add them...

Good point about Hawkwind - I felt the link to metal might be slightly tenuous, and was going to mention them in the NWOBHM assessment, as "Sonic Attack" is a hybrid metal album. Although Hawkwind had the riffs - and the overwhelming power, when they chose to use it, they did not remain in the heavy realm for long. They are a unique band, and "Space Rock" is a term synonymous with them and early Floyd.

Hawkwind and the Pink Fairies gigged together - often as "Pinkwind", and both appear on the Glastonbury Fayre triple LP set from 1971 with side-long pieces. On this album, though, I think it's quite clear that the Fairies are prog metal/psychedelia gone ballistic, and Hawkwind about a quarter way between the Fairies and Gong.

The influence of the mighty 'wind on other rock bands (in almost every subgenre), even now should not be underestimated.

Yeah a good summary of proto metal- I was going to mention Fleetwood Mac; 'Green Manalishi' was also the subject of a great cover by Judas Priest. There was also a very heavy 30 minute version of 'Rattlesnake Shake' that I had once by Fleetwood Mac- lots of solos and thundering bass by John McVie.

I reckon John Mayall's 'Bluesbreakers with Eric Clapton' defined not only blues rock, but also heavy rock (for a while, the two were almost indistinguishable) as well; listen to Eric Clapton's scorching solos on 'All Your Love' and 'Hideaway', plus the brilliant 'Stepping Out' which developed into lengthy versions by Cream.

Although I wouldn't claim The Yardbirds were that heavy a band, Eric Clapton and Jeff Beck's guitar work with them re-defined the rock guitarist from the more country approach of players like Scotty Moore and Cliff Gallup. Also, any band that had Clapton, Beck and Jimmy Page in their ranks must have been an influence of heavy rock in some way. The Yardbirds could be seen as a springboard to these future legends of rock guitar.

You've got me on Link Wray and Dick Dale there, milla! I'll have to check those out.

Good call on the Kingsmen and the Kinks - I would also include the Nashville Teens (formed 1962) "Tobacco Road" (1964).

I thought "Shakedown" (Savoy Brown's first album) wasn't released until 1966...

The Beatles also have a role (as in almost any other genre of popular music!) - both "Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Heartclub Band" (1967) and "Helter Skelter" (1968) are proto-metal in sound, if not attitude, and even the Stones general "bad boy" attitude and riff-driven sound is relevant in metal's development.

"Better By You, Better Than Me" was covered by Judas Priest - but I think the most rockin' track on Spooky Two is "Evil Woman". Sure, the vocals suck, but the track is hybrid prog metal, and the solos and riffs are almost pure Black Sabbath (Sweet Leaf).

Mountain's "Nantucket Sleighride" is an absolute classic - good call.

I think Bakerloo deserve a place in there - especially as they essentially went on to form May Blitz - even though Terry Poole and Kieth Baker both moved on. Bakerloo's sound was very heavy - not metal, but heavy enough to be on the "proto" list. I'd also include High Tide.

I definitely wouldn't include Hawkwind's 1st album - but "In Search of Space" (1971) is a must, and the song "Silver Machine" (1972) was considered a metal classic during the NWOBHM.

I think other ommissions include Nazareth (1971), UFO (1969) Black Widow (Sacrifice - 1970), ZZ Top (1970), King Crimson (ITCOTCK), and The Doors.

Of course, the most important contribution was by Black Sabbath (1970)...

Savoy Brown's first single was from 1965, I think- it was released on Mike Vernon's label Purdah Records and the single had 'I Tried' on the A side and 'I Can't Quit You Baby' on the B side, I think. That single goes for silly money now in the UK- around £200 I think....

UFO were one of the best rock bands ever, with a brilliant 6 album run on Chrysalis from 'Phenomenon' to 'Strangers In The Night', and Michael Schenker's guitar work is superb; one of the greatest metal guitarists ever.

Nazareth were almost certainly an influence on 80s metal; Axl Rose certainly sounds a little like Dan McCafferty (the singer) and Axl even played 'Love Hurts' by Nazareth at his wedding...

Bakerloo are one of the more underrated bands of the era- 'Big Bear Ffolly' is pure heavy rock, plus Clem Clempson went on to join Colosseum and Humble Pie, who also deserve a place here- their boogie rock is obviously an influence on bands like Thunder and Whitesnake. Keith Baker went on to play drums for Uriah Heep, by the way.