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Joined: January 07 2008
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Topic: Phil Collins says something I didn't expect Posted: November 04 2010 at 21:00
Collins has won my respect as a musician. I think he puts a good amount of thought and respect into all of his music. He is very genuine. You can hear it in Trick of A Tail, and you can hear it in Both Sides, you can hear it in Invisible Touch and you can hear it in No Jacket Required.
I like his attitude and am comfortable with his decisions. I see what's great in Invisible Touch alongside what is drab or awful. Similarly, I appreciate even his least proggy endeavors, like his new album, Going Back, which is a very fun album.
Edit: As a note, compare to the boring pretentiousness of Peter Gabriel, who has not lot to say but a lot of props to say it with.
Joined: April 29 2006
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Posted: November 04 2010 at 19:02
Intruder wrote:
I don't think that anyone is refuting Phil's influence and place in prog history. I think people are offended that he threw the genre under the proverbial bus when he was on top of his game saleswise.
I don't think it was so much a matter of being thrown under the bus as being peed on.
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
Joined: March 23 2006
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Posted: November 04 2010 at 14:28
Well, I gotta say that Seconds Out is possibly the most boring live album I've ever heard, and I love 70's Genesis. Live is far better, with the Rainbow 73 show surpassing even that. I've never cared for Collins singing the Gabriel stuff, though he does make a valiant effort to sound like PG. Seconds Out just lacks any energy or excitement whatsoever. The 1976 recording is much better, but still a step below Live and Rainbow 73.
As to Phil's comment, good for him, I agree completely
I don't think that anyone is refuting Phil's influence and place in prog history. I think people are offended that he threw the genre under the proverbial bus when he was on top of his game saleswise. Anything for a sale....anything for attention, the guy's always been starved for it. That's the reason for his comments on Supper's Ready....the re-remasters are due soon and Phil the Shill is out to sell us yet another copy of Foxtrot.
Never claimed that Phil didn't have the music in him.....just annoyed that he denies his legacy in favor of Soo-soo-psudo Motown trash. I remember the scared little rat on the Arsenio show covering his tracks after the "dark" comment on the Grammy awards show in the mid-90s. He also went on Leno and kissed arse....anything for sales.
I like to feel the suspense when you're certain you know I am there.....
Joined: February 16 2009
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Posted: November 03 2010 at 13:27
Well said LAZLAND, he was not only a drummer but an integral part of progressive rock history.
I feel he did a great job of filling an unfillable role after Gabriel left. He gave us The Trick and Wind & Wuthering. The rest was never my thing and probably never will be. I´ll take the memories, be proud of the fact that I was lucky enough to see Phil and Pete lay down their Supper´s Ready for generations to come.
We would be fools to underestimate just how good Phil Collins was. The drums on Selling England are
sensational and being a Brand X fan have never been fool enough to rub this man´s nose in the dirt.
Phil failed to capture his progressive fab club´s fascination with his more commercial adventures, but if
we are honest he gave a totally different audience years of enjoyable sing along pop.
I am sure Phil Collins has an incredible amount of respect fro his former band members and that Supper´s Ready is his favourite.
Joined: March 12 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posted: October 29 2010 at 18:58
Textbook wrote:
Yeah, close study of Phil Collins will suggest the guy is very calculating. He knows that history treats his prog output much kinder than his pop output. I wouldn't put it past him for that to be a disingenuous answer in order to make critics and the old guard feel more kindly towards him.
This old guard feels kindly towards him regardless. When you've done what he'd done in his former band's peak years with Brand X on top of that, why would you give diddly what anyone else says. Now if Phil can only hold a wife (that's the real trick).
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
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Posted: October 29 2010 at 11:08
Jim Garten wrote:
Back to PC's original quote though - this is a classic example of why Collins should retain respect:
Oh yes, I have seen both clips and love the performances.
The mans contribution to prog rock generally is fantastic. Lets not forget Brand X, his work with Gabriel, Brian Eno, and on the first Hackett solo album. I think the the collins of the 80's was an imposter...
Joined: May 22 2004
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Posted: October 29 2010 at 10:59
That was the first tour that I saw the band 1976 in a little used outdoor theater called the Starlight Amphitheater in the hills of Burbank ,California. I will always love that version because it is one of two times I was fortunate to hear it live (the second and last being the next year) Of course Phil was no villain then in fact he was kind of a Saviour keeping the group together.
Hmm lets see that Phil gets called out for his comments over and over in the late 70's and early 80's and yet he was the one that sat in with the Musical Box playing the Musical Box a few years ago and certainly was no road block to, in fact encouraged a full reunion tour 3-4 years ago. It is pretty obvious he does not hate the music of his youth now. Whether that extends to ELP, Yes, Pink Floyd etc is irrelevant.
"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?"
but his perspective on the band he was in is bound to change with age. It's a natural thing for a musician to go through.
Absolutely - ask Steve Wilson why he never plays 'The Sky Moves Sideways' or 'Radioactive Toy' anymore (I'd stand back when you ask though ); musicians change...
Indeed, and Wilsons take on the whole 'prog' tag seems to have mellowed with time too. But, then I bet many prog musicians go through a naieve phase of believing their music is completely beyond any classification.
I agree 100% on that. I remember in the early 90's how much Steve hated when Pt was called a "prog band" look at him embracing the whole genre and maybe adoring it.
is it true all this stuff you guys are writing about Phill? I am a pretty huge Genesis fan since I was 14 Years. I had never read numerous and I even have few Genesis Documentary on videos Have a Genesis boigraphy and I still haven''t ready anything Phil said bashing early Genesis prog albums. Totally the opossite.
can you guys post the link of these interviews?
ohh the only think I remember he said was that they were tired of playing long songs and old songs. That The band needed to change their direction. that all!
Most of this interviews are very old and no longer available, for example the first Genesis and Phil Collins sites has been transformed and several interviews vanished.
Only found one quotes:
You put Genesis over there in a corner with Yes, ELP, Moody Blues and the Floyd (Pink Floyd) because that`s the period we happened to come up in. I don`t like any of those groups - so it angers me and frustrates me when we get compared to them.
I believe you will find several good opinions about Yes after 2000.
But if you want to listen some of his most acid perception about Genesis and Prog, you can get "GENESIS A HISTORY" DVD...There he speaks a lot of harsh things about Prog and old Genesis.
Iván
BTW: I can correct myself when I found something I was wrong, seems that Phil always had a soft spot for Supper's Ready and specially for Apocalypse in 9/8, but he has said some very hard things.
Joined: March 23 2005
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Posted: October 29 2010 at 07:45
I actually enjoy Face Value, Its very good. But to no fault of Phil's I do not really share his musical taste after this. I think what he did, he did very well though. I totally respect him for following his path. I sometimes think he said some stupid things.....but don't we all!
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
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Posted: October 29 2010 at 07:41
Can't watch vid clips at work.. I'll check out when I get home.
Face Value is listenable, but No Jacket Required is best enjoyed in a concrete bunker, roughly 70 miles from ground zero where some flop haired 80's yuppie is playing it.
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
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Posted: October 29 2010 at 07:14
Jim Garten wrote:
Blacksword wrote:
but his perspective on the band he was in is bound to change with age. It's a natural thing for a musician to go through.
Absolutely - ask Steve Wilson why he never plays 'The Sky Moves Sideways' or 'Radioactive Toy' anymore (I'd stand back when you ask though ); musicians change...
Indeed, and Wilsons take on the whole 'prog' tag seems to have mellowed with time too. But, then I bet many prog musicians go through a naieve phase of believing their music is completely beyond any classification.
Joined: February 02 2004
Location: South England
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Posted: October 29 2010 at 07:07
Blacksword wrote:
but his perspective on the band he was in is bound to change with age. It's a natural thing for a musician to go through.
Absolutely - ask Steve Wilson why he never plays 'The Sky Moves Sideways' or 'Radioactive Toy' anymore (I'd stand back when you ask though ); musicians change...
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
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Points: 16130
Posted: October 29 2010 at 06:36
Indeed, Fripp never sold his soul to soul...
Collins deserves a 'ribbing' for making a catalogue of diabolical tacky fake motown music in the 80's, but generally I have no ill feeling towards him. He's among my favourite prog musicians, and was a key member of my all time favourite prog band. I cope with his solo efforts by not listening to it.
I've said it before, but his perspective on the band he was in is bound to change with age. It's a natural thing for a musician to go through.
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Phil Collins says something I didn't expect
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Intruder wrote:
Well said LAZLAND, he was not only a drummer but an integral part of progressive rock history.
. I would go one step further and say that Second's Out knocks the socks off Live IMHO
You put Genesis over there in a corner with Yes, ELP, Moody Blues and the Floyd (Pink Floyd) because that`s the period we happened to come up in. I don`t like any of those groups - so it angers me and frustrates me when we get compared to them.
wow!!!
I'll check out when I get home.
