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Topic ClosedHow to rate an Iron Maiden album?

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friso View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: How to rate an Iron Maiden album?
    Posted: September 20 2009 at 16:40
I just had a simple question, but it turned out to be a big problem. I do feel supported with rating my Iron Maiden collection. I will rate them as heavy metal (and not prog) and tell about the progressive influences in my reviews.

If you don't think bands like Iron Maiden belong on this side, you might want to skip on the PROG RELATED pages. Problem solved!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2009 at 12:56
Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Originally posted by Hawkwise Hawkwise wrote:


So Just because i have an opinion you don't like makes me a Troll ?  So why Not drop the word Prog all together ? It has became so watered down it has became almost Meaningless, Why not just call this place the Rock Archives and be done with it.Prog related ? what does this really mean?  How much Farther is it going to be stretched ?Hell why not throw in the Sex Pistols Or Public Image Ltd ,  Why not Madonna  ?  its all music, so it all could be related .   SO  Prog has it became a Meaningless  Word ?


This thread is not about whether Maiden or anyone else belongs here. This thread asked a very sincere question about rating prog related albums and everone but you has responded in a sincere helpful way.

I never voted for Maiden's inclusion and i have no idea how I would have voted because my knowledge of their music is limited, but they are here like it or not.

Please leave this thread alone, I will be discussing with the other admins possible action that might be taken if you continue to take this thread off topic.


Indeed. I'd also like to echo Raf's good advice. There's tons of other Prog sites so crying out for members they'd even take a mirthless troll like you.

Final warning.

Now back on topic.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2009 at 11:12
First thing that you have in mind to rate a IM album, is that IM have many musical rock facets, so it depends what might like you first.
 
If you are in the early years (prior to Number of the Beast) (like me), then you might like to use words defining the album and the songs an careful to avoid some cliches of reviewing albums. 
 
Feel free to say what you think  and feel about the music, that's the main reason about to write a review.
 




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2009 at 08:33
Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

As I said on numerous occasions, I have never given a flying **** about the definitions accompanying the star ratings. If I felt that a PR or PP album was a masterpiece, I gave it five stars - as simple as that, and I would have probably gone ballistic if anyone had forced me to give it a lower rating because it was not prog. In my view of the world, such attitudes border on fanaticism, and are not to be encouraged. Thankfully, the change in the definition has made it much easier for people to rate PR and PP albums without  feeling they were violating some holy tenet of progginessWink.

As regards those who bash albums because they're not prog, in my very humble opinion they should be kicked off the site, or stripped of their Collab or PR title. Stuff like that does not happen on any of the other prog sites I visit - albums are rated according to their musical worth, not on the basis of their 'prog quotient'. People who think like that are a detriment to the credibility of any serious site.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2009 at 08:17
Originally posted by Hawkwise Hawkwise wrote:


So Just because i have an opinion you don't like makes me a Troll ?  So why Not drop the word Prog all together ? It has became so watered down it has became almost Meaningless, Why not just call this place the Rock Archives and be done with it.Prog related ? what does this really mean?  How much Farther is it going to be stretched ?Hell why not throw in the Sex Pistols Or Public Image Ltd ,  Why not Madonna  ?  its all music, so it all could be related .   SO  Prog has it became a Meaningless  Word ?


This thread is not about whether Maiden or anyone else belongs here. This thread asked a very sincere question about rating prog related albums and everone but you has responded in a sincere helpful way.

I never voted for Maiden's inclusion and i have no idea how I would have voted because my knowledge of their music is limited, but they are here like it or not.

Please leave this thread alone, I will be discussing with the other admins possible action that might be taken if you continue to take this thread off topic.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2009 at 08:09
So Just because i have an opinion you don't like makes me a Troll ? 
So why Not drop the word Prog all together ? It has became so watered down it has became almost Meaningless, Why not just call this place the Rock Archives and be done with it.

Prog related ? what does this really mean?  How much Farther is it going to be stretched ?

Hell why not throw in the Sex Pistols Or Public Image Ltd ,  Why not Madonna  ?  its all music, so it all could be related . 

 SO  Prog has it became a Meaningless  Word ?


Edited by Hawkwise - September 18 2009 at 08:09
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2009 at 07:43
Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

Originally posted by MartyMcFly89 MartyMcFly89 wrote:

Thank you for your opinions. I felt that giving Abbey Road 5 stars is needed, but backed by these arguments, I feel more confident. Yes, it's easier to be confident with more skilled people saying similar things, than have pedantic opinion "this is prog site and non-prog should be rated lover".


People who have that opinion are fanatics, nothing more. I review for another prog site (Progressor), and often visits other prog sites, which are ALL more inclusive and open than this one. Many of the albums I have reviewed (and sometimes rated quite highly) would not be able to set foot here, or would be confined to Prog-Related.  Obviously, the Talebans among us have always ignored me every time I have stated this simple fact. but this does not change things. No other prog site practices anything close to a policy of rating anything 'non-prog' lower than the 'real' prog stuff. Something of the sort would be slightly deranged, not to mention ridiculous.

When I started reviewing, I had in my mind one single thing, to which I focused and which helped me to register and wrote these hundred of words on my 1st one. I knew that Dark Side of the Moon is five star album.

But soon I realized that things are not so easy. First I started to lower my enthusiasm and edit previous ratings. Degrade them if I felt it that way, after ecstasy fell down. And I have to say that DSotM was my oldest album. Then I learned to appreciate every single genre. Yes, this took a while, some I already knew and welcomed, with some I had few struggles, but now I can say that I'm more or less fair with them. My biggest failure is still probably death metal, but things are getting better.

But proto-prog, that's easy, they're mostly Deep Purple, The Beatles and The Who. But Prog-related is far bigger group. Metallica, Iron Maiden and Asia, these appears in my mind. I don't know Iron Maiden much, but know that they're amongst better metal of these times. Same as with early Metallica. Yes, both aren't prog, but they're not trying to be. Not in normal, conventional way of this world, as we understand normal jazz/symphonic prog. But way how they do it is a good one. And it would be unfair to rate them as prog. Thanks that I'm not doing this. Mostly. Everyone does mistakes and I'm trying to avoid them. 

It's hard to be fair and I know that I have to rate fairly, not rate by "prog" pattern every time. 


EDIT: And I'm aware and I admit that I rated few Asia albums lower, also because of reason that they're not prog. But one of the reasons was fact that they're boring, playing same music all over. With same pattern, same style, no innovations, no variations. Almost no. 

And of course, prog related is also Queen & Led Zeppelin.



Edited by MartyMcFly89 - September 18 2009 at 07:46
There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless,"

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2009 at 06:45
Originally posted by MartyMcFly89 MartyMcFly89 wrote:

Thank you for your opinions. I felt that giving Abbey Road 5 stars is needed, but backed by these arguments, I feel more confident. Yes, it's easier to be confident with more skilled people saying similar things, than have pedantic opinion "this is prog site and non-prog should be rated lover".


People who have that opinion are fanatics, nothing more. I review for another prog site (Progressor), and often visits other prog sites, which are ALL more inclusive and open than this one. Many of the albums I have reviewed (and sometimes rated quite highly) would not be able to set foot here, or would be confined to Prog-Related.  Obviously, the Talebans among us have always ignored me every time I have stated this simple fact. but this does not change things. No other prog site practices anything close to a policy of rating anything 'non-prog' lower than the 'real' prog stuff. Something of the sort would be slightly deranged, not to mention ridiculous.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2009 at 06:33
Thank you for your opinions. I felt that giving Abbey Road 5 stars is needed, but backed by these arguments, I feel more confident. Yes, it's easier to be confident with more skilled people saying similar things, than have pedantic opinion "this is prog site and non-prog should be rated lover".
There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless,"

   -Andyman1125 on Lulu







Even my
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2009 at 05:55
It's a mess, and it's beyond repair ... not much else to say about it. A good solution would be to allow reviews without ratings ... that way the reviewer would not be forced to submit an inconsistent/illogical rating.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2009 at 05:41
Originally posted by Hawkwise Hawkwise wrote:

Why this thread in Prog Lounge ?   Maybe there should be a heavy Metal Lounge ?  whats next Motorhead ?

 


Yes. If we decide to add Motorhead, we will, even if you disagree. You know, there are LOTS of other prog forums around the web who could use a troll like you.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2009 at 01:42
Who really cares if they are progressive enough or not. They kick ass, they can all play very well, have great albums and the best mascot ever. Up the Irons!!!
" Men are not prisoners of fate, but prisoners of their own minds." - FDR
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2009 at 00:51
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

I just want to note that it was changed for Prog Related and Proto Prog:

Essential: a masterpiece of rock music
19%
Excellent addition to any rock music collection
23%
Good, but non-essential 
41%
Collectors/fans only 
14%
Poor. Only for completionists [sic]

EDIT: David got in a minute earlier.
3%



Even better. Clap Thanks to David as well.


Edited by Angelo - September 18 2009 at 00:51
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2009 at 20:59
Originally posted by Hawkwise Hawkwise wrote:

Why this thread in Prog Lounge ?   Maybe there should be a heavy Metal Lounge ?  whats next Motorhead ?  


I moved it to prog-related lounge, now please let the good people go back to their conversation.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2009 at 20:56
Why this thread in Prog Lounge ?   Maybe there should be a heavy Metal Lounge ?  whats next Motorhead ?

 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2009 at 20:50
Originally posted by Hawkwise Hawkwise wrote:

Iron Maiden Prog ????  Now that's f**king funny.



If you don't think Iron Maiden belong on PA as a prog-related band, then this is probably the wrong thread for you. The thread starter is looking for sincere advise, let's respect that.

On another note, now I'm going to have that Run for the Hills song going through my brain all night, damn all of you , ha ha ha.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2009 at 20:08
Somewhere In Time and Seventh Son Of A Seventh Son, and A Matter Of Life And Death (the newest!) are the best, IMHO. Okay, not the "best," but certainly my faves! Big smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2009 at 19:23
Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Originally posted by Hawkwise Hawkwise wrote:

Iron Maiden Prog ????  Now that's f**king funny.


What are you laughing at? Had someone said that Iron Maiden is Prog?


Lots of people on this site think they are, and they have a right to their opinion without being ridiculed. People like that are definitely not an asset to any serious site.


Many people consider their music Prog, and Prog is often a pretty nebulous term and open to much interpretation, some others think it's progressive but not Prog, while others think it's Proggy etc.

What I don't get is that that comment seems kind of out of the blue.  Music can be progressive without being Prog, and Prog need not be progressive.  I saw people discussing progressiveness before his post, but no-one saying it was Prog.

Hawkwise, it is offensively expressed, and I hope it was just a joke.

EDIT: ah now I get it.  I hadn't noticed that this was posted in the Prog Lounge. Embarrassed


Edited by Logan - September 17 2009 at 21:37
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2009 at 19:09
Originally posted by Hawkwise Hawkwise wrote:

Iron Maiden Prog ????  Now that's f**king funny.
 
You are f**king useless, on the other hand.... to use your same language style
 
I have given 5 stars to many Iron Maiden albums. If a band is here, their albums have to be judge with the same standard. I would never put "Somewhere in time" in the same level as a 4 star album no matter how prog this second one could be...  Prog is just a word....
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2009 at 19:02
Originally posted by Hawkwise Hawkwise wrote:

Iron Maiden Prog ????  Now that's f**king funny.


I'm getting a hint that you haven't heard Seventh Son Of A Seventh Son. Anyway, did anyone ever say they were?

Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime
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